Fawad Chaudhry launches 'Pakistan's first official' moonsighting website

[M. Sarmad]

I did. And i found no relevance. ..

Then read again.. This time with an open mind... May Allah guide you

I did not lie i posted his views on Shariah ruling of moon sighting which you conveniently sidestepped.

Cheap shots don’t win you arguments. Repeating the same again and again about my POV when i have clarified at multiple occasions that my POV is NOT THE WORD OF ALLAH. Please repeat slowly . My POV is not the Word of Allah. Merely an interpretation of the words by some learned people.

Have you edited your posts where you were claiming that 2:185 was about moonsighting and that whoever denied this was simply denying facts?? And yes, cheap shots and repeating what has already been answered doesn't win you an argument, but you keep doing it... I, unlike you, discuss such topics to learn, not to 'win' arguments against anonymous/incognito posters ..

 

[criticalerror]

Then read again.. This time with an open mind... May Allah guide you



Have you edited your posts where you were claiming that 2:185 was about moonsighting and that whoever denied this was simply denying facts?? And yes, cheap shots and repeating what has already been answered doesn't win you an argument, but you keep doing it... I, unlike you, discuss such topics to learn, not to 'win' arguments against anonymous/incognito posters ..

No i have not said anyone denying this is about moon sighting is denying facts. I said the majority interpretation is that it is about moon sighting and gave a few versions of the said interpretations and an interview about Maududi’s views on the matter.

If you argue to learn, then this is not the way in which one goes about things. If you do not argue to win , then you should be more relaxed about topics then proceeding to bash the other persons POV and defame it as well.

I will ask again. What is the meaning of the Hadeeth i posted in your opinion? I gave you mine on the Hadeeth you posted. Leave all other background noise aside.

“The mark of an educated mind is to entertain a concept without accepting it”
-Aristotle

 

[M. Sarmad]

No i have not said anyone denying this is about moon sighting is denying facts. ...

You posted this earlier:

The ayah i quoted is about moon sighting. Denying an obvious fact wont change what the ayah is about.

==

I said the majority interpretation is that it is about moon sighting ..

It's not even the majority interpretation...

I will ask again. What is the meaning of the Hadeeth i posted in your opinion? I gave you mine on the Hadeeth you posted. Leave all other background noise aside.

Already answered:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/fawa...sighting-website.620546/page-10#post-11501698
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/fawa...sighting-website.620546/page-10#post-11501698
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/fawa...sighting-website.620546/page-10#post-11501652

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

As per reports majority of the members of the CII are abroad on Umrah. The Science and Technology ministry implored them to decide it before eid and that was the official answer. Go figure.

Don't know what you are talking about.. I am just saying that it will not serve its purpose to solve the dispute about moon sighting if Ulema do not agree with it and Fawad Choudry should have not declared EID on 5th June when his scientific method about moon sighting has not even approved yet and consultation and discussion about this will be after EID..imagine if he declaring EID on 5th june on official scientific moon sighting website.application and Mullah declare it on 6th june then this will confuse people even further instead of bringing any unity on this matter

 

[AbuzarIlyas]

Moon cannot be predicted just like Sun. This is the beauty of solar calender. Lunar calender have its own uses. This motu is just wasting the taxpayers money on useless things.

All Muslims have set of "jantries" in mosques and the schedule is followed throughout the year for prayer timings because it is based on Sun. Same cannot be applied in case of Moon. This is a simple matter but this bigot deliberately creating bad opinions about a state committee. He have not uttered a single word against the anti state populzai group. For him, the army and TTP are same thing.

 

[criticalerror]

Don't know what you are talking about.. I am just saying that it will not serve its purpose to solve the dispute about moon sighting if Ulema do not agree with it and Fawad Choudry should have not declared EID on 5th June when his scientific method about moon sighting has not even approved yet and consultation and discussion about this will be after EID..imagine if he declaring EID on 5th june on official scientific moon sighting website.application and Mullah declare it on 6th june then this will confuse people even further instead of bringing any unity on this matter

I am talking about why it cant be decided before eid. As for why Fawad Ch declared Eid on 5th without consultation or approval, i can only shake my head at his idiocy. I agree. He shouldn’t have announced it prematurely.

 

[criticalerror]

You posted this earlier:




==



It's not even the majority interpretation...



Already answered:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/fawa...sighting-website.620546/page-10#post-11501698
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/fawa...sighting-website.620546/page-10#post-11501698
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/fawa...sighting-website.620546/page-10#post-11501652

It is very easy to cherry pick something out of context and present it as something else. Let me paste my reply with context

The ayah i quoted is about moon sighting. Denying an obvious fact wont change what the ayah is about. What else do you sight for sawm? What does the ayah say?
I very obviously asked you what the ayah means ? I also stated multiple times that it is in tandem with Hadeeth which you refused to accept at the beginning of the discussion. If i were declaring it i would not ask you what the ayah means. Then we proceeded to have a discussion on interpretation of various people on that very verse. Which again you did not accept but that is fine. I cannot prove without Hadeeth reference the sighting of the moon. I think i said this already.

Seeing with the naked eye is not the only way to 'see' something... We aren't living in the seventh century any longer... We have to interpret the Islamic texts in the light of our own experience and the altered conditions of modern life.

Answered. I at no point said the moon is to be sighted with the naked eye.

When we use technology to replace the naked eye sightings, we do not violate any prophetic injunctions (unless, of course, if one believs that using science and technology is essentially Haram). Quite the contrary, using technology to fully benefit from the divine calculation devices is in fact following the Holy Qur'an in letter and spirit.

To this i provided the very Hadeeth we are discussing, and said in my opinion it is permissible to use technology but not as a replacement, rather an aid. In my opinion it is prohibited based on the very Hadeeth i posted.

 

[M. Sarmad]

It is very easy to cherry pick something out of context and present it as something else. Let me paste my reply with context

The ayah i quoted is about moon sighting. Denying an obvious fact wont change what the ayah is about. What else do you sight for sawm? What does the ayah say?
I very obviously asked you what the ayah means ? I also stated multiple times that it is in tandem with Hadeeth which you refused to accept at the beginning of the discussion. If i were declaring it i would not ask you what the ayah means. Then we proceeded to have a discussion on interpretation of various people on that very verse. Which again you did not accept but that is fine. I cannot prove without Hadeeth reference the sighting of the moon. I think i said this already.

I have posted your 'exact words'. But as you are backtracking now, there's no point in discussing it any further.

To this i provided the very Hadeeth we are discussing, and said in my opinion it is permissible to use technology but not as a replacement, rather an aid. In my opinion it is prohibited based on the very Hadeeth i posted.

Please quote the 'prohibition' part from the Hadith you quoted

To this i provided the very Hadeeth we are discussing, and said in my opinion it is permissible to use technology but not as a replacement, rather an aid. In my opinion it is prohibited based on the very Hadeeth i posted.

To which I replied:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/fawa...sighting-website.620546/page-10#post-11501900

But instead of replying to the content of the post, you chose to try derail the thread ... Why?

 

[criticalerror]

I have posted your 'exact words'. But as you are backtracking now, there's no point in discussing it any further.

You posted my exact words, out of context. I replied with the context.

Please quote the 'prohibition' part from the Hadith you quoted

Prohibition is established when the Prophet(PBUH) says

“Do not Fast until you sight the crescent. “

This is not prohibition? I don’t believe any form of calculation is considered “sight” by any stretch of the imagination.

[QUOTE="M. Sarmad, post: 11502183, member: 150591" To which I replied:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/fawa...sighting-website.620546/page-10#post-11501900

But instead of replying to the content of the post, you chose to try derail the thread ... Why?[/QUOTE]

I have not derailed the thread. On the contrary in your reply you quoted another Hadeeth which is unrelated to this. That would be the said derailing you are talking about.

 

[M. Sarmad]

You posted my exact words, out of context. I replied with the context.

Nothing was out of context. You exactly meant what you said, but as stated earlier, since you are backtracking now, there is no point in discussing it any further.

 

[criticalerror]

Nothing was out of context. You exactly meant what you said, but as stated earlier, since you are backtracking now, there is no point in discussing it any further.

I think already stated i could not find Maududi’s version that i had read. I already agreed to this so no need repeating it. I still provided his interview where he clearly says moon sighting is Shariah and calculation is not.

Now that that’s out of the way, I established the said prohibition. Answer that if you wish to.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Prohibition is established when the Prophet(PBUH) says

“Do not Fast until you sight the crescent. “

This is not prohibition? I don’t believe any form of calculation is considered “sight” by any stretch of the imagination.

No, this is not 'prohibition of (accurate scientific) calculations' by any stretch of imagination ... We are using even more of our faculties (than just sight) to know the exact phase of moon at any given time and place... And considering the Hadith and verses I posted earlier on this thread, it becomes clear that using technology to fully benefit from the divine calculation devices is in fact following the Holy Qur'an in letter and spirit.

I have not derailed the thread. On the contrary in your reply you quoted another Hadeeth which is unrelated to this. That would be the said derailing you are talking about.

Read your reply again. It was totally irrelevant, and also a bit provocative. Also, I had asked you to do some research on the opinions of some of the early Ulema who considered it permissible to use lunar calculations to determine Ramzan days (even when such calculations were not very accurate).. But you conveniently ignored that part as well..

 

[I.R.A]

@criticalerror @I.R.A ... Any input on my query?

Sorry bro I have no knowledge / information on how people of that time used to determine or what calendar they were following. Most of our history from that period was intentionally destroyed, what we read today may or may not be true history of those times.

If you ask for my opinion for our times ...... I would say we can start following solar calendar now, the reason? it would help bring consensus and unity. And before people witch hunt me, if we to follow lunar calendar .... come on how can every year Ramadan be same to the Ramadan in which Quran was revealed? How can laila tul qadar be same original night? Then the other thing is length of fasting for Muslims in different regions ... it is an unnecessary hardship put on people who are fasting like 20 hours or so .......... did Islam want people to go through hardships? Don't Islam say "Deen has been made easy for you" or something?

 

[criticalerror]

No, this is not 'prohibition of (accurate scientific) calculations' by any stretch of imagination ... We are using even more of our faculties (than just sight) to know the exact phase of moon at any given time and place... And considering the Hadith and verses I posted earlier on this thread, it becomes clear that using technology to fully benefit from the divine calculation devices is in fact following the Holy Qur'an in letter and spirit.

You again misrepresent what i am trying to say. Calculation and science is quite fine. I even said there are Hadeeth that support counting of days of Shaban, but not for the purpose of replacing moon sighting but to know when to look for the moon of Ramzan

Your Hadeeth do not show permissibility of this calculation being able to replace moon sighting. .
That part is only deduced by you whereas the prohibition i point to is quite clearly said by the Prophet (PBUH). That is my point.

Read your reply again. It was totally irrelevant, and also a bit provocative. Also, I had asked you to do some research on the opinions of some of the early Ulema who considered it permissible to use lunar calculations to determine Ramzan days (even when such calculations were not very accurate).. But you conveniently ignored that part as well..

I think i have clarified my position on this in subsequent posts where I apologised for any perceived sense of self-righteousness as well. If you would like to dwell on this that is up to you. As i said, the majority interpretation is still that calculation cannot replace moon sighting. I do not disagree that some ulema may allow calculations. That does not change my point.

 

[Wa Muhammada]

Now there will be 3 Eids in Pakistan

1. According to government
2. According to Religious scholars
3. According to Masjid Qasim Ali Khan.

This has already happened before some years ago. Now this will happen every year.



Science is the new god of modern era whether you like it or NOT

La ilaha illalla