F22P Zulfiqar: Debunking Propaganda

[Beast]

If Oplot was available as in Ukraine could produce enough on time I think we would have got them over VT4.

I guess you need to flip back to VT-4 thread and see thru the history before u spew nonsense here. Oplot is absolutely no match for VT-4. I am here long enough and go thru the whole trial process period of VT-4. There is good merit reason why VT-4 is selected over others. Continue your fantasy and think Oplot is some better tank.

You are serving Canada government, not the real interest of Pakistan.

 

[etylo]

France and Sweden have said they will not supply. German policies prohibit supply, even to India.

Even then, the PAF KEEPS going back to Sweden for Erieye's, which it has managed to procure.

Italy is providing SAMs for the Jinnah and Babur class, alongside the Yarmook Batch 2, NOT China.

China was even dropped from the Babur class weapons fit.

Why is Pakistan ditching the Chinese even for drones?

Why was Turkey selected to provide us with ships when the vessels were significantly more expensive?

The only time China has really been selected is when it meets the needs enough but comes in at a significantly cheaper cost. Type 054a? by no means a ship design for 2022, but why was it selected? It was still a capabilities improvement and a stop-gap until we can bolster fleet numbers with new procurements, it also came in at about half the cost of the Babur class project, per ship. More importantly, they were delivered faster also.

J-10C? Good plane, PAF would have taken F-16V any day over that though, even Rafales, Typhoons maybe, but F-16s or Rafales were the natural progressions, according to PAF personnel themselves.

VT-4, this one does make sense, there arent many tanks suited to our environment, it would have had to be Chinese or Russian origin anyway, may as well go for the best option..

This isnt to say the Chinese products are poor, however, there are many areas where they are still behind and shady Chinese business practices put customers off. Why hasn't PAF committed to the Chinese for a FGFA, or tried to replicate a JF-17 style venture with them for a fgfa? Because the Chinese left a bitter taste in the PAF's mouth. Whereas the PAF hasnt committed to Turkey due to uncertainty in the project.



Business with the Chinese is kept at a minimum, to the point where the basic needs are met, nothing more. If the contrary was the case, the PN would have licensed the 054a design and probably used that as the basis for future ships, not a corvette design that cost ATLEAST 2x what each 054a cost.



No, it does make sense to lynch Pakistan, because Pakistan has no other choice once contracts are signed. Go ahead with it or cause issues with strategically important equipment and pay HEFTY cancellation fees.

BTW, you can keep coping about fake account, just because my account is new, doesn't mean anything, im sure people are familiar with me, i was on twitter as @isipuppet, those who will recognise me know, my account has now been suspended so i stay away.

But no, the UAE and Saudi will tell you to go fk yourselves, neither country also has any significant quantities of Chinese gear anyway




So VT-4s did not come with defective engines? Why was there an import log that was a shipment of JUST VT4 engines and it was labelled as "replacement engines" as opposed to "spares" like the other shipments. Man, its not even a bad thing because it was a small qty, but this is just silly. Maybe head over to weibo if you want to be worshipped, we will talk real here

Lots info. Seems quite unsatisfied Pakistani armed forces customers in many respects, especially with the JF 17 project I was surprised, it is what I heard of the jet fighter contrary to this point. Does Pakistani shipping building industry now has the capability to design and build ships larger than 054A if you intend to do so ?

One reason you people like and have faith in Turkish weapons is becos Turkey is a same faith Muslim country that you like to worship. We all know Turkish tech is much behind Chinese tech.

Just curious, you are from UK and currently lives in Australia, where and how do you get these seemed insider and confidential info from the Pakistani armed forces ?

 

[huanghong]

France and Sweden have said they will not supply. German policies prohibit supply, even to India.

Even then, the PAF KEEPS going back to Sweden for Erieye's, which it has managed to procure.

Italy is providing SAMs for the Jinnah and Babur class, alongside the Yarmook Batch 2, NOT China.

China was even dropped from the Babur class weapons fit.

Why is Pakistan ditching the Chinese even for drones?

Why was Turkey selected to provide us with ships when the vessels were significantly more expensive?

The only time China has really been selected is when it meets the needs enough but comes in at a significantly cheaper cost. Type 054a? by no means a ship design for 2022, but why was it selected? It was still a capabilities improvement and a stop-gap until we can bolster fleet numbers with new procurements, it also came in at about half the cost of the Babur class project, per ship. More importantly, they were delivered faster also.

J-10C? Good plane, PAF would have taken F-16V any day over that though, even Rafales, Typhoons maybe, but F-16s or Rafales were the natural progressions, according to PAF personnel themselves.

VT-4, this one does make sense, there arent many tanks suited to our environment, it would have had to be Chinese or Russian origin anyway, may as well go for the best option..

This isnt to say the Chinese products are poor, however, there are many areas where they are still behind and shady Chinese business practices put customers off. Why hasn't PAF committed to the Chinese for a FGFA, or tried to replicate a JF-17 style venture with them for a fgfa? Because the Chinese left a bitter taste in the PAF's mouth. Whereas the PAF hasnt committed to Turkey due to uncertainty in the project.



Business with the Chinese is kept at a minimum, to the point where the basic needs are met, nothing more. If the contrary was the case, the PN would have licensed the 054a design and probably used that as the basis for future ships, not a corvette design that cost ATLEAST 2x what each 054a cost.



No, it does make sense to lynch Pakistan, because Pakistan has no other choice once contracts are signed. Go ahead with it or cause issues with strategically important equipment and pay HEFTY cancellation fees.

BTW, you can keep coping about fake account, just because my account is new, doesn't mean anything, im sure people are familiar with me, i was on twitter as @isipuppet, those who will recognise me know, my account has now been suspended so i stay away.

But no, the UAE and Saudi will tell you to go fk yourselves, neither country also has any significant quantities of Chinese gear anyway




So VT-4s did not come with defective engines? Why was there an import log that was a shipment of JUST VT4 engines and it was labelled as "replacement engines" as opposed to "spares" like the other shipments. Man, its not even a bad thing because it was a small qty, but this is just silly. Maybe head over to weibo if you want to be worshipped, we will talk real here

It is unlikely that detailed drawings of the 054A will be provided to Pakistan, whose record of technical secrecy is not reassuring. The AESA fire control radar and the new anti-submarine sonar on the 054a of the same period are not even available on the 054A/P.

 

[etylo]

If Oplot was available as in Ukraine could produce enough on time I think we would have got them over VT4.


US equipment is battle proven and their technology is decades ahead of Chinese. It’s a undeniable fact that American equipment is unmatched in the world.

LMAO, US tech is decades ahead of China now, you might well ask the Chinese army to surrender to the Yankees without firing a shot for the better now ! Where did US weapons get tested in real large scale battles against worthy enemies like Russia and China ? But, with mop up operations in Afghan against Taliban armed with nothing more than the most primitive AK 47. If Chinese weapons are such junk and way antiquated according to you, why are Pakistani armed forces buying so many weapons from China now, are you saying they are fools ?

 

[Beast]

Lots info. Seems quite unsatisfied Pakistani armed forces customers in many respects, especially with the JF 17 project I was surprised, it is what I heard of the jet fighter contrary to this point. Does Pakistani shipping building industry now has the capability to design and build ships larger than 054A if you intend to do so ?

Just curious, you are from UK and currently lives in Australia, where and how do you get these seemed insider and confidential info from the Pakistani armed forces ?

in Australia, where do you get these seemed to be insider and confidential info from Pakistani armed forces ?

They are making those things up. Do not trust these fake people words.

 

[etylo]

No one is twisting you words but that’s exactly what you imply. No one worships the west either. We’re allowed to choose what we want between west and China.
China still is far behind west in many fields especially reliability. It’s a undeniable fact which you try to ignore. Western tech is also more battle proven then Chinese. If west sanctions us, at least it’s open in doing so. Just look at what Chinese IPP’s have done to Pakistan. One of the main reason the main factors for our economic situation is because of Chinese IPP’s and other Chinese companies sucking our money. Or what about the Chinese mining companies operating in Pakistan basically stealing our resources and selling us back at many times higher price. I rather prefer sanctions then companies who just want to rob us for our money.
You’re a Chinese so you would want everything Chinese.
I am a Pakistani and I want anyone who can benefit Pakistan the most to work with Pakistan. Be it China or west. If America offers us something better we should choose it over China. That’s not polishing shoes rather it’s being logical.

Yeah, the best is not to do any business with the Chinese, but just do it with your benevolent fellow Muslims and your benevolent friends Westerners. Chinese are all evil to you people.

 

[arslank03]

Lots info. Seems quite unsatisfied Pakistani armed forces customers in many respects, especially with the JF 17 project I was surprised, it is what I heard of the jet fighter contrary to this point. Does Pakistani shipping building industry now has the capability to design and build ships larger than 054A if you intend to do so ?

One reason you people like and have faith in Turkish weapons is becos Turkey is a same faith Muslim country that you like to worship. We all know Turkish tech is much behind Chinese tech.

Just curious, you are from UK and currently lives in Australia, where and how do you get these seemed insider and confidential info from the Pakistani armed forces ?

The Jinnah class is larger in displacement to the 054a.

Turkey is not a Muslim country, they are a secular country, you are just coping because the 054a is a ship that should have rolled out 20 year ago.

And no, i am Pakistani, the flags are irrelevant. Aghar kohi shaq hai tou mera passport dekh lo , maybe you should open the link in my signature.

LMAO, US tech is decades ahead of China now, you might well ask the Chinese army to surrender to the Yankees without firing a shot for the better now ! Where did US weapons get tested in real large scale battles against worthy enemies like Russia and China ? But, with mop up operations in Afghan against Taliban armed with nothing more than the most primitive AK 47. If Chinese weapons are such junk and way antiquated according to you, why are Pakistani armed forces buying so many weapons from China now, are you saying they are fools ?

Because they have no other option. Can you tell me the name of one weapons trial where the Chinese were selected as-is? Or were they sent back and told to come back with improvements? Z10, SH-15, VT-4, JF-17, J-10A, The list is endless

Yeah, the best is not to do any business with the Chinese, but just do it with your benevolent fellow Muslims and your benevolent friends Westerners. Chinese are all evil to you people.

to be fair, seeing what you do to our uighur brothers and sisters, i would rather be sanctioned by the US than to reach out to you for help, but unfortunately, i am not the PM

It is unlikely that detailed drawings of the 054A will be provided to Pakistan, whose record of technical secrecy is not reassuring. The AESA fire control radar and the new anti-submarine sonar on the 054a of the same period are not even available on the 054A/P.

Pakistans 'technical secrecy is not reassuring'

LMAO, Pakistan is yet to be a source for leakage of sensitive tech, followed by the contractual obligations of them, yet we have China who will tear apart every system they can get their hands on and reverse engineer it. Do you forget your dear 054A is using reverse engineered soviet systems? MR-90, TOP PLATE. Shitl, MINERAL-ME ring any bells to you?

This is also why hendsholt has provided pak with a license to build their AESAs for domestic production, yet for the Chinese, there is no technical secrecy. Honestly, some of you guys never fail to make me laugh

I guess you need to flip back to VT-4 thread and see thru the history before u spew nonsense here. Oplot is absolutely no match for VT-4. I am here long enough and go thru the whole trial process period of VT-4. There is good merit reason why VT-4 is selected over others. Continue your fantasy and think Oplot is some better tank.

You are serving Canada government, not the real interest of Pakistan.

yes, the VT4 thread, a hub of credible and legit information. People like Lion who actually know what they're on about can debunk your thread with ease.

 

[iLION12345_1]

If Oplot was available as in Ukraine could produce enough on time I think we would have got them over VT4.


US equipment is battle proven and their technology is decades ahead of Chinese. It’s a undeniable fact that American equipment is unmatched in the world.

No we would not. Oplot is a bad joke and I am so glad PA stayed away from it. I would rather PA buy more Al-Khalids than buy Oplots. VT-4 is nearly a generation ahead of the Oplot. It’s not perfect in any way, but it’s much better than the Oplot.
And this is coming from the same person who according to @Beast is “very biased against Chinese technology”

 

[Beast]

The Jinnah class is larger in displacement to the 054a.

Turkey is not a Muslim country, they are a secular country, you are just coping because the 054a is a ship that should have rolled out 20 year ago.

And no, i am Pakistani, the flags are irrelevant. Aghar kohi shaq hai tou mera passport dekh lo , maybe you should open the link in my signature.



Because they have no other option. Can you tell me the name of one weapons trial where the Chinese were selected as-is? Or were they sent back and told to come back with improvements? Z10, SH-15, VT-4, JF-17, J-10A, The list is endless


to be fair, seeing what you do to our uighur brothers and sisters, i would rather be sanctioned by the US than to reach out to you for help, but unfortunately, i am not the PM


Pakistans 'technical secrecy is not reassuring'

LMAO, Pakistan is yet to be a source for leakage of sensitive tech, followed by the contractual obligations of them, yet we have China who will tear apart every system they can get their hands on and reverse engineer it. Do you forget your dear 054A is using reverse engineered soviet systems? MR-90, TOP PLATE. Shitl, MINERAL-ME ring any bells to you?

This is also why hendsholt has provided pak with a license to build their AESAs for domestic production, yet for the Chinese, there is no technical secrecy. Honestly, some of you guys never fail to make me laugh


yes, the VT4 thread, a hub of credible and legit information. People like Lion who actually know what they're on about can debunk your thread with ease.

All are worthless comment. So what you speak Pakistanis when you are serving the western government when you are not holding Pakistanis passport

 

[iLION12345_1]

The thread is deleted. Of cos you couldn't see it. Why not u ask the moderator if they still manage to keep the database and see for yourself? If not , why OP starting post quote @iLION12345_1 ? You think he quote him for VT-4 tank or for F22P?

He has been spewing nonsense against all Chinese equipment. Now caught with his pants down after debuke of the problem of F22P. So OP quote him to ask him for explanation for all the insult he dish against F22P using an Indian article.

If you still believe there is zero biased against Chinese from some Pakistanis from anything. Go ahead and live in your denial. I don't want to say it come from natural or stem from the kind of propaganda environment of being hostile against Chinese. I am also keen to know the reason.

VT-4 or you are talking about F-22P ???

I have not seen iLION12345_1 commenting about Naval issues, he keep himself restricted to the Army section.

I have had beast muted for ages because, very sorry for my language, he’s a retarded bot who loves to waste my time. And I suggest you all leave him alone too.

He absolutely can’t stand any criticism of Chinese technology and will defend it like he gets paid for it (probably does too, and makes it and all the respected Chinese members on this forum look bad in the process, him and some others are the reason I stopped posting here for a while).

I absolutely criticized the VT-4 because the criticism was valid, anyone can go read it if they want. And yet I also said it was the best option for Pakistan, was much much better than the alternative (Oplot or T90S) and is one of the better MBTs on sale today, it’s just that these bots can’t stand a neutral POV. They absolutely want to hammer into you that China is the best and can do no wrong.

I similarly did criticize the F22P and I stand by it, I absolutely do not believe they are as bad India keeps wanting to say they are or are “malfunctioning” or “being scavenged” for parts. But one only has to compare them to similar sized vessels from other countries to start seeing the shortcomings. They are a product of their time, when the PN was short on funds and vessels. These are not those same times. They will be upgraded and will continue to serve, but they definitely had their issues, and the people that need to be aware are aware of them, including some users here.

I’ve similarly criticized the 054A for it’s dated design, while also saying that the design is dated only because china would rather spend the money on its cutting edge destroyers, but instead bots like him interpret it into me calling Chinese technology bad. It’s not that China cannot make extremely cutting-edge naval tech, just take a look at the Type 055 or the speed at which they are building their carriers and FGFAs, but that doesn’t automatically mean everything they make is perfect. The Chinese naval leadership is clearly smarter than the people trying to defend the 054A considering they don’t put money where it isn’t needed.

His go to defense is that we’re biased against Chinese tech, but the obvious truth is that he is too far biased towards it, if he didn’t have selective comprehension issues then he would have seen the arguments I’ve gotten into with Legend (the moderator) over his similar bias towards American equipment when I have criticized it.

Keep in mind when I say criticize I am not calling a thing bad, I am pointing out its flaws, something every piece of tech has, just like it has its positives. I could do the same to an F22, an F35, a JF-17 and so on.

 

[etylo]

The Jinnah class is larger in displacement to the 054a.

Turkey is not a Muslim country, they are a secular country, you are just coping because the 054a is a ship that should have rolled out 20 year ago.

And no, i am Pakistani, the flags are irrelevant. Aghar kohi shaq hai tou mera passport dekh lo , maybe you should open the link in my signature.



Because they have no other option. Can you tell me the name of one weapons trial where the Chinese were selected as-is? Or were they sent back and told to come back with improvements? Z10, SH-15, VT-4, JF-17, J-10A, The list is endless


to be fair, seeing what you do to our uighur brothers and sisters, i would rather be sanctioned by the US than to reach out to you for help, but unfortunately, i am not the PM

Turkey is not a Muslim country ? One of the biggest joke I ever heard, might be secular country but A Muslim one.

Chinese weapons are all originally designed to operate in Chinese environments, seas and lands except JF- 17 here. Pakistani never intended or ordered J-10A and I don't know what your talking about sending them back. Even US weapons go many retrials, look at Ford class aircraft carriers and F-35 for example.

It's one thing have no better choice, but to buy completely useless junk in his opinion. Besides, you can get many weapons from Europeans, Turkey and even America if you are willing to pay as you people said.

Your view on Uighers in China just tells me that you are a typical person brain washed by the evil West govs and media lies such as Chinese are committing genocides against the Uighers and also forcing them to do labour works, etc.

Just curious to know how do you get all these inside info from Pakistani armed forces considering you don't live there for long time or you weren't born there ?



Turkey is a secular country with a majority Muslim population. There are no formal statistics on the population's religious affiliation. National identification cards automatically list any citizen as 'Muslim' at birth unless their parents have registered them to a constitutionally recognised minority religion.

Turkish Culture

The Cultural Atlas aims to inform and educate the public in cross-cultural attitudes, practices, norms, behaviours, communications and business skills

culturalatlas.sbs.com.au

 

[Beast]

I have had beast muted for ages because, very sorry for my language, he’s a retarded bot who loves to waste my time. And I suggest you all leave him alone too.

He absolutely can’t stand any criticism of Chinese technology and will defend it like he gets paid for it (probably does too, and makes it and all the respected Chinese members on this forum look bad in the process, him and some others are the reason I stopped posting here for a while).

I absolutely criticized the VT-4 because the criticism was valid, anyone can go read it if they want. And yet I also said it was the best option for Pakistan, was much much better than the alternative (Oplot or T90S) and is one of the better MBTs on sale today, it’s just that these bots can’t stand a neutral POV. They absolutely want to hammer into you that China is the best and can do no wrong.

I similarly did criticize the F22P and I stand by it, I absolutely do not believe they are as bad India keeps wanting to say they are or are “malfunctioning” or “being scavenged” for parts. But one only has to compare them to similar sized vessels from other countries to start seeing the shortcomings. They are a product of their time, when the PN was short on funds and vessels. These are not those same times. They will be upgraded and will continue to serve, but they definitely had their issues, and the people that need to be aware are aware of them, including some users here.

I’ve similarly criticized the 054A for it’s dated design, while also saying that the design is dated only because china would rather spend the money on its cutting edge destroyers, but instead bots like him interpret it into me calling Chinese technology bad.

His go to defense is that we’re biased against Chinese tech, but the obvious truth is that he is too far biased towards it, if he didn’t have selective comprehension issues then he would have seen the arguments I’ve gotten into with Legend (the moderator) over his similar bias towards American equipment when I have criticized it.

Keep in mind when I say criticize I am not calling a thing bad, I am pointing out its flaws, something every piece of tech has, just like it has its positives. I could do the same to an F22, an F35, a JF-17 and so on.

Another putting words into my mouth. Quote single post I mention that I dont accept criticism. Dont mix faked news and false data with criticism. They are 2 different things. Most of the time, there are simply too many fake allegation and fake stories against Chinese military products from here.

If you can provide concrete data with relevant support , I am more than happy to study with you all. Finally , dont expect gold when u can paid peanuts only. China definitely provide better value for customers with same price tag compare to Russia or western products.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Personally I’ve argued that even the Babur class is technologically ahead of the 054A/P. However it’s also more expensive. 054A is not the best simply because China doesn’t need it to be, to them it’s a second-line cheap frigate that they can build in large numbers to support their destroyers and carriers (which is where all the money goes). For Pakistan it’s a frontline ship so the flaws in it are more prevalent.

There’s a similar explanation to why Chinese tanks simply do not compare to western ones (or Russian ones, at least on paper, Russia is just extremely bad at using them). Because to China, there is no threat of a better tank, their only enemy on ground is india who operates tanks that are frankly reaching obsoletion in the next decade. For that Chinese armor is more than adequate, and the same applies to Pakistan purchasing Chinese armor. But you put it up against something Russian or western and then it doesn’t compare anymore.


I personally don’t think Chinese reverse engineering is a bad thing, the fact that they can reverse engineering everything then work to make it better is a rather smart move to develop their defense industry, and they certainly innovate in many fields, but it absolutely does destroy their narrative when they try to act all high and mighty, and once you call them out they start comparing themselves to Pakistan to say we have no right to criticize them. But we never said Pakistan was better than China in any way, it’s absolutely not, China is a superpower, that doesn’t mean they’re going to make perfect things or be immune to criticism.

The Jinnah class is larger in displacement to the 054a.

Turkey is not a Muslim country, they are a secular country, you are just coping because the 054a is a ship that should have rolled out 20 year ago.

And no, i am Pakistani, the flags are irrelevant. Aghar kohi shaq hai tou mera passport dekh lo , maybe you should open the link in my signature.



Because they have no other option. Can you tell me the name of one weapons trial where the Chinese were selected as-is? Or were they sent back and told to come back with improvements? Z10, SH-15, VT-4, JF-17, J-10A, The list is endless


to be fair, seeing what you do to our uighur brothers and sisters, i would rather be sanctioned by the US than to reach out to you for help, but unfortunately, i am not the PM


Pakistans 'technical secrecy is not reassuring'

LMAO, Pakistan is yet to be a source for leakage of sensitive tech, followed by the contractual obligations of them, yet we have China who will tear apart every system they can get their hands on and reverse engineer it. Do you forget your dear 054A is using reverse engineered soviet systems? MR-90, TOP PLATE. Shitl, MINERAL-ME ring any bells to you?

This is also why hendsholt has provided pak with a license to build their AESAs for domestic production, yet for the Chinese, there is no technical secrecy. Honestly, some of you guys never fail to make me laugh


yes, the VT4 thread, a hub of credible and legit information. People like Lion who actually know what they're on about can debunk your thread with ease.

Turkey is not a Muslim country ? One of the biggest joke I ever heard, might be secular country but A Muslim one.

Chinese weapons are all originally designed to operate in Chinese environments, seas and lands except JF- 17 here. Pakistani never intended or ordered J-10A and I don't know what your talking about sending them back. Even US weapons go many retrials, look at Ford class aircraft carriers and F-35 for example.

It's one thing have no better choice, but to buy completely useless junk in his opinion. Besides, you can get many weapons from Europeans, Turkey and even America if you are willing to pay as you people said.

Your view on Uighers in China just tells me that you are a typical person brain washed by the West gov and media lies such as Chinese are committing genocides against the Uighers and also forcing them to do labour works, etc.

Just curious to know how do you get all these inside info from Pakistani armed forces considering you don't live there for long time or you weren't born there ?

Not a technical point, but the moment you start taking sides, you lose the narrative. You believe he is brainwashed by the west, but he can equally say you’re brainwashed by China. And then who’s right?

Have you ever tried taking the middle path and realizing that both sides have their goods and bands and that neither side cares for Muslims or human life because religion and humanity doesn’t matter in the race for national interests? China and the USA treat Muslims about the same. And Pakistan will continue to deal with both, because China or the middle East’s Muslims are not our problem, we cannot even take care of our own Muslims. Why do you want Pakistan, the country rife with religious intolerance, where people will lynch just about anyone on the street, to be the champion for Muslims being killed in China by China or Muslims being killed in the Middle East by the west?
Frankly Pakistan could learn a thing or two from both China and USA about how to worry about foreign issues; by not giving a shit and focusing on its own.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Lots info. Seems quite unsatisfied Pakistani armed forces customers in many respects, especially with the JF 17 project I was surprised, it is what I heard of the jet fighter contrary to this point. Does Pakistani shipping building industry now has the capability to design and build ships larger than 054A if you intend to do so ?

One reason you people like and have faith in Turkish weapons is becos Turkey is a same faith Muslim country that you like to worship. We all know Turkish tech is much behind Chinese tech.

Just curious, you are from UK and currently lives in Australia, where and how do you get these seemed insider and confidential info from the Pakistani armed forces ?

Pakistan is not unsatisfied with the JF-17, it just doesn’t have the freedom it needs to over the project, it’s never had that with any Chinese tech despite what it may look like. China gives us tech and cuts us good deals because it suits their needs. It helps their industry, it gives india something to worry about and gets them off Chinas back, But China is not the nice, rosy, easy to deal with business partner Pakistani forces make it out to be, and that’s our fault, not the Chinese. We are weak, corrupt and easily twisted, so everyone has their way with us, the Chinese are just doing business the correct and smart way, wish we were more like them. I suggest we worry about fixing our systems rather than criticizing Chinas.

It is unlikely that detailed drawings of the 054A will be provided to Pakistan, whose record of technical secrecy is not reassuring. The AESA fire control radar and the new anti-submarine sonar on the 054a of the same period are not even available on the 054A/P.

You are saying this about the country that has spent several decades as the closest ally of both America and China and has operated the best of French and Italian tech, but has yet to hand over either sides technology to the other willingly or unwillingly (at least not any tech that was part of a proper, legal, contract cough cough tomahawks)…

 

[huanghong]

Pakistan is not unsatisfied with the JF-17, it just doesn’t have the freedom it needs to over the project, it’s never had that with any Chinese tech despite what it may look like. China gives us tech and cuts us good deals because it suits their needs. It helps their industry, it gives india something to worry about and gets them off Chinas back, But China is not the nice, rosy, easy to deal with business partner Pakistani forces make it out to be, and that’s our fault, not the Chinese. We are weak, corrupt and easily twisted, so everyone has their way with us, the Chinese are just doing business the correct and smart way, wish we were more like them. I suggest we worry about fixing our systems rather than criticizing Chinas.


You are saying this about the country that has spent several decades as the closest ally of both America and China and has operated the best of French and Italian tech, but has yet to hand over either sides technology to the other willingly or unwillingly (at least not any tech that was part of a proper, legal, contract cough cough tomahawks)…

Maybe allies, but not without reservations, even the old ship 054A designed 20 years ago, those 054a launched at the same time as 054ap also have aesa fire control radar and new active and passive sonar. The 054ap only has the SR2410C as an export model.
As arslank03 said earlier: to be fair, seeing what you do to our uighur brothers and sisters, i would rather be sanctioned by the US than to reach out to you for help, but unfortunately, i am not the PM
How naive does China have to be to give the latest technological know-how without reservation to a country with people who generally share this idea? As long as an officer who has access to these technologies leaks secrets to other countries because of the ideas said by arslank03, this is a huge loss to China.