What's new

F16, F18s would have provided India unbeatable platforms

This one is really shameless. lol IAF tested all six aircrafts from every possible aspects. The made performance indicators with more than 1000 parameters. EFT and Rafale were the only two fighters to pass all the tests and requirements.
 
.
No. There are no "kill-switches" on those aircraft! :)

So they were sold and bought without the 'familiar' strings.

And I suppose you think the CFTs were supplied to keep the aircraft in circuit longer. :cheesy:
 
.
Nonsense.
F18 and/or F16's are in no way unbeatable. Rafale is better than those two at just about everything that is important.
If they really wanted to provide unbeatable platforms they should have brought F22.

F22 is better jet fighter but

Aik Goreela Base ko Hajra Bana Data Ha..........
 
.
Possibly. But has it been tested against someone big enough? Both jets have been tested against tin pot dictator states that come and go by. Though countries like Serbia fought valiantly, they just were too small to challenge these jets en masse. We are not exactly going to be facing come-and-go dictators TBH and need something that actually allows us to be free to decide what to do in a war, rather than wait for Unkil's nod. Especially when we are paying billions of $$ for it.

Rafale meets our requirements perfectly. It took IAF 4 years and 650+ parameters to check through (excluding political considerations). The jets were tested in all the Mandatory-5 regions of India (high altitudes, scorching deserts, humid plateau, bitter cold and musky forest air).

Typhoon is a good potential too but it lacks A2G capabilities as of now and it is criminally expensive for its operational and life-cycle requirements. Oil sheikhdoms with extra money can throw around to Europeans. We OTOH will be using it for a serious conflict if the situation arises.

Our enemies ain't exactly jet-burying-defectors.. if you get the idea.
 
.
Why would India go for old platform when we are getting the latest and the best ones ??? F16 is almost obsolete while F18 international roadmap will cost us almost the same as EF and may be even more as nothing was clear about that. Radar was the best thing but the whole Rafale package makes it almost as better as the F18 radar and may be even better.
 
.
Why would India go for old platform when we are getting the latest and the best ones ??? F16 is almost obsolete while F18 international roadmap will cost us almost the same as EF and may be even more as nothing was clear about that. Radar was the best thing but the whole Rafale package makes it almost as better as the F18 radar and may be even better.

typical people... it has always been their dream to operate fighters used by the top AF in the world (albeit toned down but just for the looks maybe). Thats why they cant see anything except those.
 
.
the only unbeatable platform offered was the Super hornet albeit a watered down version of it if the USA would have given full TOT and with no strings attached it would have imo won the competition since the F-18 super hornet the USAF uses has a proven AESA radar which is much better than the radars of the other fighters offered along with top of the line weapons.

nonetheless i favor EF but Rafale is good enough for the AF though i must admit a decision based on cost rather not technological and qualitative req's is a bit disappointing
 
.
Cummon guys, this deal was mammoth. It will provide 1000 of ppl direct and indirect job. Every one try to pitch hard for such kind of deal and they did.

Imagine 10,000 of ppl getting job for 10-12 years. It is big deal...
 
. .
Indian politicians have memory of elephants. They will judge you by what you did in 90s even now.
Also, this high voltage sales pitch was not appreciated by anybody.
 
.
Cummon guys, this deal was mammoth. It will provide 1000 of ppl direct and indirect job. Every one try to pitch hard for such kind of deal and they did.

Imagine 10,000 of ppl getting job for 10-12 years. It is big deal...
Minimum 40,000 jobs in countries where unemployment is rising by leaps and bounds.
 
.
Dassault-India's jet deal to have 'serious implications' for UK: UK trade union

A prominent UK trade union has warned that India's decision to opt for 126 French-made Rafale fighter jets instead of the UK-backed Typhoon aircraft will have "serious implications" for the UK aerospace industry.

"We are concerned about the serious implications this decision may have and want urgent talks with the company about future plans for the workforce," Ian Waddell, national officer for aerospace and shipbuilding at Unite, said.

Unite warned the selection of the Rafale could have "serious implications" for BAE Systems and the UK aerospace industry. It is estimated that 40,000 UK jobs are supported by the project, The Telegraph said.

"The latest decision by the Indian government to select a French fighter aircraft over the BAE Systems Typhoon, highlights how important it is to support British jobs when it is within the power of the government to do so," Waddell said.

Last year, BAE cut 3,000 jobs in the UK, partly because it had won fewer export orders for the Typhoon than planned.

"This government should be using procurement to support British companies, rather than using it against them," Waddell said.

The Typhoon is made by Britain's BAE, European giant EADS, and Italy's Finmeccanica. The UK accounts for 37.5 per cent of production with the aircraft assembled at BAE's aerospace facilities in Lancashire and suppliers including GKN, Ultra Electronics and Rolls-Royce.

India's fighter deal with France is a blow to British Prime Minister David Cameron, because the contract could lay the groundwork for a strategic partnership with India, The Telegraph said.

"Cameron personally lobbied Indian prime minister Manmohan Singh last year while Britain's Air Chief Marshal Sir Stephen Dalton met his Indian counterpart in Calcutta," the paper said.

Reacting to India's decision, Cameron yesterday said he would do "everything he can" to "encourage" India to reconsider its decision to acquire French-made Rafale fighter jets instead of the UK-backed Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft.

"Of course, I will do everything I can, as I have already, to encourage the Indians to look at Typhoon," Cameron told Parliament.

India announced on Tuesday that it will opt for Dassault Rafale fighter jets under the biggest-ever military contract that may be worth over USD 10 billion.

"The decision is obviously disappointing," Cameron said, insisting that the contract had not yet been awarded to the French firm.

Cameron said the Typhoon was "a superb aircraft, with further capability than Rafale and we will try to encourage the Indians to take that view".
 
.
PARIS (Reuters) - French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Tuesday said that he welcomed a decision by India's government to enter into "exclusive negotiations" with France's Dassault for the purchase of 126 Rafale jet fighter planes.

In a statement, Sarkozy said talks over the contract would begin shortly, adding that the deal would include significant transfers of technology guaranteed by the French state.
 
.
Dassault-India's jet deal to have 'serious implications' for UK: UK trade union

A prominent UK trade union has warned that India's decision to opt for 126 French-made Rafale fighter jets instead of the UK-backed Typhoon aircraft will have "serious implications" for the UK aerospace industry.

"We are concerned about the serious implications this decision may have and want urgent talks with the company about future plans for the workforce," Ian Waddell, national officer for aerospace and shipbuilding at Unite, said.

Unite warned the selection of the Rafale could have "serious implications" for BAE Systems and the UK aerospace industry. It is estimated that 40,000 UK jobs are supported by the project, The Telegraph said.

"The latest decision by the Indian government to select a French fighter aircraft over the BAE Systems Typhoon, highlights how important it is to support British jobs when it is within the power of the government to do so," Waddell said.

Last year, BAE cut 3,000 jobs in the UK, partly because it had won fewer export orders for the Typhoon than planned.

"This government should be using procurement to support British companies, rather than using it against them," Waddell said.

The Typhoon is made by Britain's BAE, European giant EADS, and Italy's Finmeccanica. The UK accounts for 37.5 per cent of production with the aircraft assembled at BAE's aerospace facilities in Lancashire and suppliers including GKN, Ultra Electronics and Rolls-Royce.

India's fighter deal with France is a blow to British Prime Minister David Cameron, because the contract could lay the groundwork for a strategic partnership with India, The Telegraph said.

"Cameron personally lobbied Indian prime minister Manmohan Singh last year while Britain's Air Chief Marshal Sir Stephen Dalton met his Indian counterpart in Calcutta," the paper said.

Reacting to India's decision, Cameron yesterday said he would do "everything he can" to "encourage" India to reconsider its decision to acquire French-made Rafale fighter jets instead of the UK-backed Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft.

"Of course, I will do everything I can, as I have already, to encourage the Indians to look at Typhoon," Cameron told Parliament.

India announced on Tuesday that it will opt for Dassault Rafale fighter jets under the biggest-ever military contract that may be worth over USD 10 billion.

"The decision is obviously disappointing," Cameron said, insisting that the contract had not yet been awarded to the French firm.

Cameron said the Typhoon was "a superb aircraft, with further capability than Rafale and we will try to encourage the Indians to take that view".

Typical rhetoric from sore losers.

Just tell me, how does loosing an order of 126 fighters be able to throw a high flying consortium like EADS in rough weather when they already have an order book crossing 500 ?
 
.
Having lost out on the multi-billion Indian Air Force contract, the Pentagon said American fighter jets - F16 and F18 - would have provided India unbeatable platforms with proven technologies at a competitive price.

"We are extremely confident that the F/A-18IN and F-16IN would have provided the Indian Air Force unbeatable platforms with proven technologies at a competitive price," the Pentagon spokesman Cmdr Leslie Hull-Ryde said.

"As you know, our platforms are derived from combat proven fighter aircraft and represent the cutting-edge of proven technology", Hull-Ryde said.

The Pentagon remarks came a day after India announced that the French company Dassault Aviation has emerged as the lowest bidder for its multi-billion fighter jet deal, beating out the Eurofighter Typhoon.

In April India had already rejected the bids of two American fighters jets along with that of the Russians and Swedish.

Hull-Ryde clarified that there has been no offer to sell F-35 Joint Strike Fighters (JSF) to India.

"Should India indicate interest in purchasing the JSF, the United States would be prepared to provide information on the JSF and its requirements (infrastructure, security, etc) to support India's future planning," she said.

F16, F18s would have provided India unbeatable platforms: US - Indian Express

F16, Mig29 and Mirage2000 were fit in comparison since early 80s and all these 3 aircrafts have 10s of customers worldwide. These aircrafts were again upgraded to F16 block52, Mig29SMT and Mirage2000-5 mk2 in 90s to last decade and are still in high demand. Mig29k is being currently bought by India for their ACs with their current upgrades of Mig29 to SMT standard, F16 block52 is being bought by its customers like Pakistan/ Turkey as their top guns, and Mirage2000-5 mk2 is still the back boon of French and over 20 other air force of the world. (like Mirage2000N, a variant of Mirage2000-5, still has nuclear strike responsibility for France, and also for India.) when India signed deal for upgrading its old Mirage2000 to 2000-5 mk2 for over $70mil each in 2011, more than price of a new F16 block 52, then it had certain reasons, that is, IAF had calculated that Mirage2000-5 mk2 is superior to F16 block52, obviously, as US has offered F16 block52 to India since 2008 :meeting:

But it was clear that Rafale, EFT Typhoon, F16 block 70, Super Hornet, Mig35 would be the ‘next generation’ option, as for example, all these aircrafts are offered with AESA radar but none of the above 3 of 80s. like, production line of Rafale was opened when French closed production line of Mirage2000 with the claim that Rafale is ‘next gen’ option, a ‘+’ superior to Mirage2000-5 mk2. IAF was first interested in Mirage2000-5 mk2 for MRCA in 2007 but French closed its production line with a claim that Rafale is a ‘next generation’ option. So, India either had option for Mig35/ Mig29VOT, which was also offered with AESA radar with much improved a2g capabilities of this primarily an air superiority aircraft, for only $50mil each only, with already existing infrastructure of Mig29 in India making in attractive than F16 block 70 for similar price. Or, India could go for the ‘next generation’ option Super Hornet, Rrafale or EFT Typhoon for higher price.

But even if Super Hornet, F18, was cheaper than Rafale/ EFT, and was also as good for a2g roles as Rafale also, it was argued that Super Hornet can do its work inside Indian territory only as its air superiority capabilities is very poor and it will never be able to cross Indian border and may easily be shot down by even old SU27/ J11 also on border. (it was argued that even Mirage2000-5 mk2 would be a better option than Super Hornet.) And even if EFT Typhoon was considered to be a better side on air superiority performance, it has to be upgraded for next 4-5 years to have a competent a2g operations, and at the same time stealth features can be provided to it not before 2020, as per the recent news. Therefore, Rafale, an Omni Role Aircraft, which is among the best for a2g operations like Super Hornet, then Rafale also has air superiority capabilities of high end, capable enough to beat SU27/ J11 in a2a combat. This way Rafale with stealth features emerged as a true Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MRCA), capable enough to beat air superiority aircrafts in air and cross the border and conduct any very specialized operation on the other side of border if required. Hence Rafale was the winner of this MMRCA since beginning if IAF could pay twice to that of Mig35 :tup: (the Mig35/Mig29VOT with a powerful AESA radar which could also do its all the works competently and economically the reason why it is being taken for INS Vikramaditya and IAC-1.)

(also, neither EFT Typhoon was a true Multi Role aircraft as it is designed for primarily air superiority role, and second it lose to even F16s block 52 of 80s in dog fights in a2a role also. Im sure EFT Typhoon was never in competition.) :agree:

(The logic/ analysis used for Super Hornet supports Australia’s decision to buy Super Hornet, its only customer, with a clear cut argument that Australian Super Hornets will never have to cross border as Australian border is not shared with any country. And for the Multi Role operations within the Australian territory, Super Hornet doesn’t need to have high end air superiority capabilities. With 12 submarines, first Australia will not let any aircraft carrier come close to Australian border, and with that Super Hornet may conduct one of the best A2G operations within Australian territory similar to Rafale, if required. While Super Hornet can also be fitted with a2a missiles to handle any aircraft in air from a distance, therefore, it’s the best option for the country like Australia. But for India, they need something like Rafale who would first win in air over air superiority aircrafts like J11/ SU27 and then cross the border to conduct very specialized a2g operations on the other side of border which air superiority aircrafts like SU30MKI cant do. a top end air superiority aircraft like SU30MKI can do only a 'good' level of a2g operation after winning in sky, not a very specialised a2g operation like Rafale. And for any specialized a2g operation within Indian territory, they will already have multi role Mirage2000-5 mk2, LCA etc.) :meeting:
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom