F-16 Thread

[A.Rahman]

even today it is not a lion when india operates MKI's...AIM120 armed f-16 can pose threat to mki but mki will always have first see first fire advantage

F-16 has one of the best killratio ever. What kind of record does MKI has?

F-16/block 52+ can take down MKI with AIM-120Cs& V9 radar.

If they use the one with APG-80 then you get about twice the range of the V9 and better resistance to jamming. So the aircraft has MUCH BETTER BVR capability.

The era of soviet low flying and dog-fight is over, one with BVR wins the war in todays world.

 

[A.Rahman]

I do believe it when the Chinese stated that the J-10 is comparable to the F-16 block 50s. The reason I believe it is because the J-10 contains so much U.S contents. As we know the Israelis sold technologies from the Lavi when the Chinese began this program, and even after they formally ended cooperation in this project Israelis maintained an office in China(I think it's safe to say that they were aiding the Chinese). Overall the U.S invested around 2 billion dollars into the Lavi program and only to have the technolgies ended up in Chinese hands.

The J-10 can match the F-16C/D, it will soon be fitted w/ the SD-10, so it will have BVR capability, just like the F-16C/D.

 

[melb4aust]

Thats the point, i dont see J-10 has less superiority than F-16. both of em are gonna be the same, not the same exactly but J-10 will do F-16's job quite effeciently, as mentioned above by A. Rahman, once fitted with BVR and SD-10. Radar will remain the only issue then.

 

[RAPTOR]

Pakistan to buy scaled-down package of F-16s

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Pakistan has agreed to purchase a greatly scaled down package of American F-16 fighters after foregoing a larger purchase to finance relief efforts in last year’s earthquake, officials said Thursday.
Pakistani Foreign Secretary Riaz Khan and US Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns said after a round of talks they had agreed to proceed with the sale but would not provide the number of aircraft.
Khan said it was “a much scaled-down request” from the package under consideration last year that reportedly included 25 new aircraft at around 25 million dollars apiece.
“In view of the constraints that we have on resources, we have now a far less ambitious package which is a mix of some old, used aircraft and some new,” he told a joint news conference.
Burns said he reassured Khan “that we are committed to the sale of American F-16 aircraft to Pakistan and we intend to begin our consultations on this issue with Congress shortly.”
Washington had blocked the sale of F-16s to Pakistan for 15 years to protest its nuclear weapons program, but gave the green light in March 2005 to reward the South Asian ally for its help in the war on terror.
Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf said in November he had to postpone the purchase to concentrate on helping victims of the devastating earthquake that killed more than 73,000 people the month before.
Our Monitoring Desk adds: The first round of strategic talks between Pakistan and US completed in Washington on Thursday, reported a private TV channel.
After the meeting Foreign Secretary of Pakistan and US Assistant Secretary of State Nicholas Burns in a joint press briefing said that they had discussed non-proliferation issue, democracy and stabilisation in balance of power in South Asia.
Foreign Secretary Riaz Muhammad Khan said that Pakistan would purchase new and second-hand F-16s from the US
He maintained the economy had suffered in the wake of earthquake.
He said that Iran nuclear issue also came up in discussion and Pakistan laid stress on resolving the issue through diplomacy.
Talking on the occasion, Burns said that Pakistan should not worry about nuclear deal between the US and India because the deal in no way helped Delhi produce nuclear arms.
On Kashmir, he said the issue should be resolved in accordance with the wishes of Kashmiri people. He further said Pakistan remained an important partner in fighting against terrorism.
On the issue of Waziristan and Balochistan, he said the US would help end the crises.
APP adds: Earlier, the daylong session of the formal Pakistan-U.S. Strategic Dialogue began at the State Department Thursday morning, with Foreign Secretary Riaz Muhammad Khan and Nicholas Burns, U.S. Under Secretary for Political Affairs, leading their respective delegations.
The delegation also held separate meetings with Steve Hadley, National Security Advisor to President Bush; and Assistant to the U.S. President and Deputy National Security Advisor. Dr. Jack D. Crouch.
Foreign Secretary Riaz Muhammad Khan also visited the Brookings Institution, where he met and briefed scholars and academicians of the noted think tank on Pakistan’s foreign policy. On the occasion, bilateral, regional and international matters came up under discussion.

 

[melb4aust]

Nah man this is not good, whats a point of buying old aircrafts. Thats just a waste of money and time. Americans are still playing with us. Thats why i was supporting J-10 deal. one hand look at the US cooperation with India and other side have a look what we are getting some old used scrap.

 

[Muradk]

Nah man this is not good, whats a point of buying old aircrafts. Thats just a waste of money and time. Americans are still playing with us. Thats why i was supporting J-10 deal. one hand look at the US cooperation with India and other side have a look what we are getting some old used scrap.

Where does it say scaled down versions? The articles mentioned that its a scaled down request which means less aircraft are going to be ordered as compared to before. This versions is the same as already mentioned by the government in the domestic media and J-10 will not be available for another 4 years. There is no comparison between present day F-16 B/ 52 and J-10 after 10 years. F-16 beats J-10 in every aspect.

J-10 looks like an excellent airframe but with no engine and avionics.

 

[RAPTOR]

Where does it say scaled down versions? The articles mentioned that its a scaled down request which means less aircraft are going to be ordered as compared to before. This versions is the same as already mentioned by the government in the domestic media and J-10 will not be available for another 4 years. There is no comparison between present day F-16 B/ 52 and J-10 after 10 years. F-16 beats J-10 in every aspect.

J-10 looks like an excellent airframe but with no engine and avionics.

True. but some say that Pakistan is being cautious and buying less F16s because it wants the US to give them to Pak for its role in the WOT. Plus if they order 58 brandnew F16s and again the US withholds them like they did in the 90's then its really gonna piss the hell out of PAF officials. Its like that saying....

"Fool me once, shame on you"
"Fool me Twice, shame on ME"

 

[RAPTOR]

Posted 04/27/06 17:38
Print this story
U.S. To Ask Congress To Approve F-16 Sale to Pakistan
By REUTERS


The Bush administration will formally ask the U.S. Congress to approve the sale of American-made F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan, Undersecretary of State Nick Burns said on April 27.
He made the announcement after talks with Pakistani Foreign Secretary Riaz Khan, who said the package would be scaled-down from an earlier request and include old as well as new aircraft.
After a devastating Oct. 8 earthquake, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf said he would postpone the purchase of F-16s -- built by Lockheed Martin Corp. -- while the government assessed how it would meet the costs of reconstruction and rehabilitation in devastated parts of Pakistani Kashmir and the North West Frontier Province.
Burns said he reassured Khan "we are committed to the sale of American F-16 aircraft to Pakistan and we intend to begin (formal) consultations with Congress shortly."
Other than saying it would be a "scaled down request (with) some new and some old" jets, Khan said he could provide no further information. The details of the package "keep getting revised," he told a news conference.
Earlier in the month, Pakistan’s cabinet gave its air force clearance to open negotiations to buy 36 Jian-10 fighter aircraft from China and 62 F-16s from the United States.
The shopping list included 36 modified versions of China’s Jian-10 aircraft, along with 26 F-16s of Type A and B, and 18 F-16s of the latest Block 50/52 C and D type models, with an option for 18 more, defense officials in Islamabad said at the time, confirming a report in the Business Recorder newspaper.
The newspaper, citing an official document, said the government also gave approval for purchase of Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles, targeting pods and joint direct attack munitions.
Since the earthquake, the international community has offered over $6 billion in aid and soft loans to help Pakistan recover from the disaster. Though no official figures have been released, the cost of the F-16s alone is expected to be around $2.5 billion.
The costs for the Jian-10 and the BVR missiles are also estimated to run into billions of dollars.




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[Munir]

Don't forget that 18 block52 are a mjor headache for the average enemy. Certainly if they are companied by 50-60 MLU (AMRAAM) versions. All the know how will directly flow into the J10C that PAF will get...

 

[Zeeshan S.]

Munir now lets see this.

190~ Su-30s (mostly with the MKI standard), 200 MRCA order, and bunch of Mig series which will stay in service, and lets not ignore Mirage2k5.

Our enemy is much better equipped. IAF has an edge every where, all we have is minimum of the minimum detterence.

If we have Erieye they have Phalcons.

If we have J-10 then they have MRCA.

If we have F-16MLU and other variants they have Su-30s.

They have the edge every where, and how are going to counter it? Lets admit it, they are superior, and they have funds. All what we can do is wait for our economy and hope for funds.

 

[Munir]

nopes. They attack a nuclear armed country. They need to attack and expect anything in return. Will they attack? Ok then let us move on. If they attack. Majority is old and outdated. They needed decades to get oldy Hawks. (just check the cockpit of the Hawk... It is even worser then K8. Now those MRCA will take a few decades. And MKI isn't superior. It is a nice big plane with fancy tools but we will see how well it performs in real combat with smart missiles and smaller opponents. You did remember that Gnat was small and simple yet it did pretty well against newer opponents? And third... It is not big US will allies against a nation that cannot use its airforce. Even 1:5 does mean that the attacker has to deal with reality... If they are several hundreds plane in the air and IAF is puttnig big deal of them to attack Pak then I bet that Pak is forcin them with more then the same numbers to retreat... And then if there is a big a2a... Quantitues make superiority less superior...

 

[Thunder]

Unless america gives us something usefull like f-16 block60 at a cheap price, ten it makes sevse to buy them. Other wise j-10 is cheaper, railable , and there is always a chance that we might even get TOT. And a wa with india isnt poccibile for about liike the next 20years. Both countries are devloping and a war will ruin all of that hard work. Usa is also in the region for about the same time and will not let this happen. So buy the we actully have to use our air force against the the indians, we'll probabley have JF-17E( no such thing yet but possibile), with ASEA, and maybe pakistan might make another fighter all by themselves in the next 20 years. Then there is always a cahnce that we might buy some europeans fighter as we contuine to get devlped and have money to spend on such things.

 

[melb4aust]

Munir now lets see this.

190~ Su-30s (mostly with the MKI standard), 200 MRCA order, and bunch of Mig series which will stay in service, and lets not ignore Mirage2k5.

Our enemy is much better equipped. IAF has an edge every where, all we have is minimum of the minimum detterence.

If we have Erieye they have Phalcons.

If we have J-10 then they have MRCA.

If we have F-16MLU and other variants they have Su-30s.

They have the edge every where, and how are going to counter it? Lets admit it, they are superior, and they have funds. All what we can do is wait for our economy and hope for funds.

Certainly dude, Funds $$$ are the biggest problem and issue Pakistan do have at the moment. And we cant compare it with India especially when they have a back hand from US and Israil. On the other hand Pakistan only have China, who have helped pakistan in a great deal in the past until now.
You guyz do gotta admitt that they have superior tech than that of pakistan. But i cant neglect that our soldiers have much better training, much better mentality and most importantly the will to sacrifice himself for the country "JAZBA":flag: .

 

[Munir]

Don;t forget that JF17 is there to build next generations in Pakistan. So it is a startup plane. J10 is even further. Pak officially said that the good weather friendship between the USA and Pakistan caused it to scale down F16 and add J10... That is the second time that officials made that very clear...

 

[RAPTOR]

Don;t forget that JF17 is there to build next generations in Pakistan. So it is a startup plane. J10 is even further. Pak officially said that the good weather friendship between the USA and Pakistan caused it to scale down F16 and add J10... That is the second time that officials made that very clear...

What other options does Pakistan have anyway?