Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

[hussain0216]

the way i see it China does not want to share the secrets of j-10. hence they come up with jf-17 which is watered down aircraft. it works for pakistan because it replaces a lot of old platforms - j-7, q-5, mirage iii and mirage-5. it helps pakistan in building their aircraft.



at $20 million cost price the profit has to be quite slim

It wont be that low with a full weapons package and training

Even if say Argentina buys the plane Pakistan as the major user will be heavily involved in the training

never heard this before....

Look through the JF17 thread

 

[salarsikander]

he way i see it China does not want to share the secrets of j-10.

Pakistan was offered J-10 last year

 

[wiseone2]

Pakistan was offered J-10 last year

at the end of the day it is not in the paf

 

[salarsikander]

at the end of the day it is not in the paf

Hi,
You love being owned don't you ?
This was in response to your ridiculous statement saying China doesn't want to share its sensitive tech

Yet it was offered to paf, so much for sensitive tech

 

[wiseone2]

It might be----.

you can say all you want ...

i stand by my assertion j-10 will not transferred to pakistan until plaaf inducts next generation indigenious combat aircraft

 

[The SC]

It is very simple, everyone still operating the MIG-21s, the F-5s or the Chinese J-7s, it will be the JF-17 or zilch... there is nothing in the world being produced today for their replacement, unless every nation operating them hits the Jackpot and becomes filthy rich to go for the Eurofighter, the Rafale, the F-16, or the Gripen.
The market is wide open for it, and it offers a very good modern replacement for the backbone of many nation's air forces, its price is also right for those nations. It was a very well thought of project with a long term vision.

 

[SQ8]

you can say all you want ...

i stand by my assertion j-10 will not transferred to pakistan until plaaf inducts next generation indigenious combat aircraft

Sure, And I maintain that the Tejas will never fly again unless the IAF ditches the MMRCA.. neither mine nor your assertion has any ground in reality. Only difference is that I know I am fibbing and can admit it, your case is unknown.

 

[salarsikander]

you can say all you want ...

i stand by my assertion j-10 will not transferred to pakistan until plaaf inducts next generation indigenious combat aircraft

Hi,

Claaisc case of deluded mentality in deep denial

never heard this before....

Hi,
Perhaps you need to get updated, and get out ignorant mentality

It is very simple, everyone still operating the MIG-21s, the F-5s or the Chinese J-7s, it will be the JF-17 or zilch... there is nothing in the world being produced today for their replacement, unless every nation operating them hits the Jackpot and becomes filthy rich to go for the Eurofighter, the Rafale, the F-16, or the Gripen.
The market is wide open for it, and it offers a very good modern replacement for the backbone of many nation's air forces, its price is also right for those nations. It was a very well thought of project with a long term vision.

Hi,
No, there is huge market for non flying tejas

 

[FuturePAF]

It is very simple, everyone still operating the MIG-21s, the F-5s or the Chinese J-7s, it will be the JF-17 or zilch... there is nothing in the world being produced today for their replacement, unless every nation operating them hits the Jackpot and becomes filthy rich to go for the Eurofighter, the Rafale, the F-16, or the Gripen.
The market is wide open for it, and it offers a very good modern replacement for the backbone of many nation's air forces, its price is also right for those nations. It was a very well thought of project with a long term vision.

second hand f-16s and mirage 2000s may flood the market when nations buying the f-35 start retiring their f-16s
also advanced trainers are being considered by many nations

the Philippines is an example of a nation that is looking a for a non-chinese aircraft, so it needs to pick something, and it can either get the f/a-50 from south korea, or if america allows, excess defense article f-16 with a little expense on support equipement and operational costs

also with the Brazilian gripen deal, the price might come down, or second hand gripens may become avialable

this is why the jf-17 design needs to keep improving like the gripen deal, to stay in the game and win some contracts

 

[The SC]

second hand f-16s and mirage 2000s may flood the market when nations buying the f-35 start retiring their f-16s
also advanced trainers are being considered by many nations

the Philippines is an example of a nation that is looking a for a non-chinese aircraft, so it needs to pick something, and it can either get the f/a-50 from south korea, or if america allows, excess defense article f-16 with a little expense on support equipement and operational costs

also with the Brazilian gripen deal, the price might come down, or second hand gripens may become avialable

this is why the jf-17 design needs to keep improving like the gripen deal, to stay in the game and win some contracts

Second hand European F-16s will be handed out very tired and degraded, (from NATO grade), most of them will be good for scrap, add the American ones too.
The Mirage 2000 can only be bought from France or with French approval, and you should know how complicated is that.
Also do not forget that the F-16s along with the Mirages are maintenance extensive and their weapons are restricted , their use is prone to sanctions too. All these facts play in favor of the JF-17.
And who needs a trainer to replace full fledged fighters like the MIG-21s or the F-5s?

 

[The SC]

The Tejas and MMRCA have nothing to do with each other. Tejas problems is a reflection of the challenges in building advanced combat aircraft.

Back to JF-17 there has never been a successful combat aircraft that has been exported and not used by the host country. The PLAAF has hundreds of J-7s. Pakistanis would have me believe that the JF-17 which is this great 4th generation fighter aircraft could not replace the J-7s.

The evidence and logic does not support any of your claims.



there is a market for jf-17 if China can produce a reliable engine for it. It cannot be more than $30 million.
When you cross the price point you have other better options.

Lets make it $35 million with a Chinese engine..., it will still work. But even with current Russian engine the potential is still there. On a more serious note, the price will depend on what a nation wants to put in it, it might go up to $35 million, but then that will be the best JF-17 can offer.

 

[MastanKhan]

second hand f-16s and mirage 2000s may flood the market when nations buying the f-35 start retiring their f-16s
also advanced trainers are being considered by many nations

the Philippines is an example of a nation that is looking a for a non-chinese aircraft, so it needs to pick something, and it can either get the f/a-50 from south korea, or if america allows, excess defense article f-16 with a little expense on support equipement and operational costs

also with the Brazilian gripen deal, the price might come down, or second hand gripens may become avialable

this is why the jf-17 design needs to keep improving like the gripen deal, to stay in the game and win some contracts

Hi,

The original sin was the NO TWO SEATER option----. It really killed the project from taking off---. Remember---it is not about the steak---it is all about the sizzle----. A lack of two seater has worn off the sizzle.

That is why I say---how incompetent the PAF had to be for not manufacturing a 2 seater when it was replacing many a 2 seater aircraft with the JF 17---and if it wanted to sell this aircraft. It shows a lack of research prior to manufacturing.

That is why you don't see air forces of the world designing fighter aircraft---there is a reason for that.

 

[FuturePAF]

Second hand European F-16s will be handed out very tired and degraded, (from NATO grade), most of them will be good for scrap, add the American ones too.
The Mirage 2000 can only be bought from France or with French approval, and you should know how complicated is that.
Also do not forget that the F-16s along with the Mirages are maintenance extensive and their weapons are restricted , their use is prone to sanctions too. All these facts play in favor of the JF-17.
And who needs a trainer to replace full fledged fighters like the MIG-21s or the F-5s?

good points, but what about the gripen, second hand gripens are more expensive than the JF-17, but currently much more capable

a good option for a nation like the philipines

Hi,

The original sin was the NO TWO SEATER option----. It really killed the project from taking off---. Remember---it is not about the steak---it is all about the sizzle----. A lack of two seater has worn off the sizzle.

That is why I say---how incompetent the PAF had to be for not manufacturing a 2 seater when it was replacing many a 2 seater aircraft with the JF 17---and if it wanted to sell this aircraft. It shows a lack of research prior to manufacturing.

That is why you don't see air forces of the world designing fighter aircraft---there is a reason for that.

the design is not all bad, and can be saved
also the CAC designed the j-10, and J-20, but i think it was the PAF design specifications and low price lag that tied the hands of the chinese designers

being allowed to use more composites and going for more aerodynamic shaping (less drag and better lift) the plane would become much more agile and therefore effective in air combat

its the shortsightedness of the PAF
remember a fighter this size, the gripen, is a decent fighter, so a decent fighter in this weight class can be made, it about salvaging the design of the JF-17, not jumping ship and going for the j-10 right off the bat

 

[MastanKhan]

good points, but what about the gripen, second hand gripens are more expensive than the JF-17, but currently much more capable

a good option for a nation like the philipines



the design is not all bad, and can be saved
also the CAC designed the j-10, and J-20, but i think it was the PAF design specifications and low price lag that tied the hands of the chinese designers

being allowed to use more composites and going for more aerodynamic shaping (less drag and better lift) the plane would become much more agile and therefore effective in air combat

its the shortsightedness of the PAF
remember a fighter this size, the gripen, is a decent fighter, so a decent fighter in this weight class can be made, it about salvaging the design of the JF-17, not jumping ship and going for the j-10 right off the bat

Hi,

Thank you for the response----J 10 has a different utility. JF 17 is going to fill up the ranks---and once it is equipped with aesa----it will change its standing. The important thing about the JF 17 is its total strike package air---naval and ground---where these aircraft can be employed in large numbers---.

Paf had the mindset that with current electronics package---you don't need two pilots on an aircraft this size---. Well---tat is fine if paf was the end user--they know what their pilots are used to and how they are trained---.

But when selling this aircraft to a 3rd party---you have to look at the need thru their eyes and mind---you have to visualize their perspective---. That is where the paf failed----. They should have researched with prospective buyers---supposedly---if they were looking for this aircraft---what would they want and need in this aircraft.

 

[Max Pain]

the way i see it China does not want to share the secrets of j-10.

youre aint seein right,