Featured Ex PN Chief Zafar Mehmood Abbasi highlighted PN modernization

[kursed]

This leads me to think that in the Northern Arabian Sea area would a SOSUS type system be viable with Chinese help? Maybe we already have it in place....

Sosus generally helps near coasts, PN has something in the works for the entire EEZ. The general idea is to make Western IOR, inhospitable for IN.

 

[Zarvan]

A new type of FACM will be procured...

Well good but real power booster will be if can take Harbah range to 1000 KM. I know I am right. This range will give India the nightmares which no other thing can.

 

[araz]

I'm sorry, but what are you on about??????????

You are a PDF think tank consultant category, you should know better. are you not aware of critical analysis.

I was not throwing stones anywhere, and if I ever did I would appreciate let the Indians defend themselves rather then a Pakistani carrying the torch of self-appointed high morals. And, please do not put a meaning to my words on something that has not been said.

I merely highlighted facts as part of a discussion with someone knowledgeable. I did not boast about anything, or make any tall claims, argue or discuss my points and keep your moral torch to yourself, If you don't have anything constructive to say, I suggest keep it to yourself.

You have misunderstood my response and gone on a tirade of litany which is irrelevant. Let Pakistan and its efforts be seen in a realistic light. There are a lot of critical technologies and industries which we lack. Considering our difciencies we have really done well. But one must be factual in one's assessments which you were not and hence my response. What you think of me is of no concern to me. Iam not out here to impress anyone. I express an opinion as other people do on open fora in response to other people's post. If you want to respond please do so but with facts .
A

@PakShaheen79 , Thank you for you post. Can you share based on current trajectory and vision, where would we see PN till 2040? i am positive our Military thinks from long term perspective, 20 years is not too far away when we talk about acquisition cycles? Any thoughts?

why cant we upgrade our Steel mill, make a semi autonomous entity for Profit and sell steel to internal entities and then open if for overseas projects? internal consumptioin will be more than sufficient, i am not sure on the data of usage of steel in pakistan and not sure how much does it produce.

I suspect you will require a specialized steel plant which can manufacture and roll large sheets of military ship grade metal. It is quite an expensive undertaking. The last I found out from a friend in the industry one such plant in 2000s would have set you back 2-3 billion. Then you will need metalurgical research which will have its own cost. It is a catch 22 situation and I suspect one where we have been struggling for 2 decades. God bless our glorius idiot ZA Bhutto who nationalized our only existing specialized steel plant which shut it down for years. It had been revived in the last decade by the army but I-suspect we need a-larger plant than the one we have.
A

 

[maverick1977]

You have misunderstood my response and gone on a tirade of litany which is irrelevant. Let Pakistan and its efforts be seen in a realistic light. There are a lot of critical technologies and industries which we lack. Considering our difciencies we have really done well. But one must be factual in one's assessments which you were not and hence my response. What you think of me is of no concern to me. Iam not out here to impress anyone. I express an opinion as other people do on open fora in response to other people's post. If you want to respond please do so but with facts .
A

I suspect you will require a specialized steel plant which can manufacture and roll large sheets of military ship grade metal. It is quite an expensive undertaking. The last I found out from a friend in the industry one such plant in 2000s would have set you back 2-3 billion. Then you will need metalurgical research which will have its own cost. It is a catch 22 situation and I suspect one where we have been struggling for 2 decades. God bless our glorius idiot ZA Bhutto who nationalized our only existing specialized steel plant which shut it down for years. It had been revived in the last decade by the army but I-suspect we need a-larger plant than the one we have.
A

gIKi has produced so mang PhD metallurgical doctors, 2 of them from my class got disheartened and went back to canada and australia, even their gori biwis sacrificed their lives for the vision of pakistan... for overseas pakistani myself who manage innovation and P&L , we all want to come back and turn the world around, but the culture in pakistan is hell, leg pulling, tanay baazi, and roray atkana... i am sure investing into steel mill to upgrade it will tremendously accelerate PN shipyard capabilities and indigenous designs for military and commercial ship building ... there are so many different ways high strength steel can be used in various industries..

Thank you sir.

IMHO. The maritime power projection competition between the USA and China has direct impact on Pakistan's security situation. Indo-US pacific partnership is a catalyst in this already explosive geostrategic milieu. Now, China alone will never be able to counter QUAD across the IOR. Starting from the pacific rim of Indian ocean, in far east, it is obvious that a big maritime showdown will take place there between China and QUAD. Now among QUAD, India is a major player which is ambitious to become a global player and for that She wants to compete with China alone in BoB and Arabian Sea regions of Indian Ocean. This is something which ushered strategic constraint for PN as well and we have seen the consequent major upgrade plans by PN as outlined by Ex-CNS Abbasi. My only regret is that PN has to do such acceleration now because it seems that this sister force was completely ignored in last 3 decades. Apart from 3 Agosta-90s in 90s, and 4 F-22Ps in 2000's there was nothing acquired of significance in last 3 decades. These assets are now require upgrade as well. We saw real thrust in last 3 years in shape of various weapons systems and now an elaborate plan of major acquisition has been unveiled. In this plan too, most of the work was done in last 4-5 years.

Going back to strategic constraint, PN has been scrambled hard to rectify some grave shortcomings and consequently the entire force is being reshaped (3 task forces for 3 regions). This shows that these constraints are severe and war gaming done keep in mind the trajectory of ongoing events in IOR, PN has reached the conclusion that it has to be reformed (Technology), reshaped (Structure and Size) and re-branded ( Indigenization).

Naturally, PN will look for technologies from everywhere it can get but China will remain our main ally and supplier as She has her own reasons to support us with latest of their system. A Strong PN in Arabian Sea means proportionally less competitive IN against PLAN in other regions of IOR. In naval diplomacy, China needs allies like Pakistan to counter weight QUAD like strategic constructs.

If these geo-strategic events remain on the same pace and trends, PN modernization will be faster than usual for all above mentioned reasons. In 2040, PN will have AAW Destroyers (local design), Guided Missiles frigates/ destroyers even submarines (follow up of Hangoor Class) and Fighter squadrons as well. Hyper-sonic missiles will be part of PN and more than 1 such weapons will be part of surface fleet. Longer range SLBM will be part of PN as well (to ensure 2nd strike capability). In 2040, hypersonic will be what supersonic today is. Exact force projection in 2040, will directly depend how situation changes in this volatile region.

Many members here are perplexed by the vision of a div size Marine force and Brigade size SSGN force. I think this is v logical step.Offense is best defense and expeditionary forces sends clear message to the enemies. Plus we have sir creek and run of kuch like terrain where heavy armor will not work, By 2040, I believe PN will have a complete Marine Corps. (2 to 3 div sized force) equipped with all necessary gear and by default Landing ships/docks will be part of PN as well. To me, major task of Marine Corps will be to disrupt enemy plans to make surprise landing on shores and hitting key targets and infrastructure in enemy territory. Similarly, SSGNs will be multiple independent brigades carrying out missions deep inside enemy waters / territories using its own small fleet of smaller submarines. We might also see preparations for complex BEL ops carried out by joint task forces comprising on elements from Marine, SSGNs, PN Air wing etc.

Lastly, In future fighter squadron, Project AZM will be a key factor in Air-Sea battle scenario. IN already has a impressive fighter arm in its air wing and we must assume it will only get stronger till 2040. Considering Pakistan is looking for large number of AEW, MPA, platforms, the need of a platform which can make ingress/egress quickly in a naval battle where PN will always has numerical disadvantage, will always remain there. UCAV's role in Indo-Pak scenairo will be an interesting thing but till the time, these platforms got autonomous guidance, their true potential will remain untapped. Ideal scenario will be PN operating AZM (based on J-31) with 3-4 heavy UCAVs with autonomous guidance as wing men. Air Dominance over our EEZ must be the goal.

Mr. Yasser, this will be a dream come true if PN can exponentially grow, it can be a blue navy by 2040z Thanks for giving your input

 

[Thorough Pro]

Not for free, leasing it for training before ours are delivered, so that they can be operationalized right away.

No body is talking about this but r we getting 1 sub for free..?

Anyone has info on yaun class subs ?
It seems heavier then s20 one

 

[Rafi]

There is a good chance that we will keep the Yuan, with the lease turning into a permanent arrangement.

 

[ziaulislam]

Not for free, leasing it for training before ours are delivered, so that they can be operationalized right away.

Did he said leasing?

There is a good chance that we will keep the Yuan, with the lease turning into a permanent arrangement.

He says on gratis basis last i check my English isnt that bad

 

[Rafi]

Did he said leasing?

He says on gratis basis last i check my English isnt that bad

Did not see that, but 8 turns into 9. Brilliant.

 

[Sulman Badshah]

Does anyone guess what the 20x gunboats could be like? I'm hoping they are Azmat class vessels indigenously built.

Indigenous Design
Featuring Fast, Stealthy, and added armour

Pakistan to locally manufacture stealth gun boats, tugs

The gun boat possessing stealth features, armor protection, and capable of achieving high speed will be indigenously designed by Pakistan Navy, while its construction will be undertaken by Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works (KS&EW).

www.brecorder.com

 

[313baberali]

Maritime Surveillance

With their endurance, reliability and class-leading range, Bombardier jets are ideal for maritime surveillance.

specializedaircraft.bombardier.com

 

[khanmubashir]

All by 2030??? Just in 10 year hope so

Btw I believe instead of inducting new recruits as permanent marine force

Navy should circulate pak army reserves for couple of years into marine corps they already have basic training so few months specialised training be enough

Quicker marine corps buildup
And would keep over all forces size same saving money on salary and other such expenses

And by this we would train a very large reserve marine capable force In a decade

Well leave that to the airforce. It’s all about interoperability and in that PAF-PN well rehearsed and well linked under NCW CONOPS.

Yes each should he specialists and experts of it's domain and have synergy



Instead of spending huge resources and time to buildup parallel capabilities in different forces they should be designed to work in sync and work together

 

[313baberali]

Sea Kings being land based and too big

Correct me if wrong.....Not know about other ships but least our tanker have capicity to accommodate seaking

 

[Yasser76]

There is a good chance that we will keep the Yuan, with the lease turning into a permanent arrangement.

Maybe an older version without AIP, but good to keep as a training sub. We will need a dedicated sub for training once Agosta 70s are retired.

Correct me if wrong.....Not know about other ships but least our tanker have capicity to accommodate seaking View attachment 678316

It can accomodate Sea Kings if required, but mainly they are land based and it is the only large enough ship in the fleet that can. The problem of a lack of modern helicopters remains

 

[ziaulislam]

Did not see that, but 8 turns into 9. Brilliant.

Well i am not sure if it will be 8
Or 9 but 1 is being procured on "gratis basis" clearly means it's been given free..
Dont know how near will this version be to ours but it will speed up the much needed traning purpose as we are increasing our fleet by 150% in very short time

 

[araz]

Well i am not sure if it will be 8
Or 9 but 1 is being procured on "gratis basis" clearly means it's been given free..
Dont know how near will this version be to ours but it will speed up the much needed traning purpose as we are increasing our fleet by 150% in very short time

ASAK
I was once told by someone that the basic structure of ships of one origin are different from other origin ships. The change over can require half a-decade to get used to for staff. Hence countries go on and stick to one or two suppliers for their needs. I suspect the same holds true for PN Subs which have previously been French but now Chinese. So there is sense in the Yuan for training and acclimatization for staff. Later on it could be upgraded to comply with our requirements or just kept for basic sub training.
Either case we are looking at an unprecedented boom in PN acquisition and may Allah azza-wa Jal make these plans come true. We need this to guard our supply lines and most importantly our off shore oil drilling facilities before we establish those.