Featured Ex PN Chief Zafar Mehmood Abbasi highlighted PN modernization

[maverick1977]

No, you are simply making things up in your head. You are jumping to conclusions that do not exist. Have a look and study of UK's Royal Marine's Commando Brigade, and everything it requires and it's roles. Even 3 Commando Brigade cannot operate without NATO support, but in your head you seem to think in 10 years Pakistan has the need and the resources to create such a unit and send it to certain death to perform a role that actually detracts from Pakistan Armed Forces main job of holding back India. Do you know how insane you are starting to sound here?

Essentially now you have made a sweeping statement publicly, realised how irrelevant it is, but pride is stopping you from admitting it, and forcing you to carry on posting, this getting deeper and deeper into supporting an argument you simply cannot sustain....

u r absolutely missing the point, i am dissecting this vision..
with the new strategic global block it is all a possibikity that pakistan along with other navies will have marines deployed as part of coalition..
Secondly to hold india, you might be able to open a new front by deployin marines to release pressure on punjab??
It does not sound ridiculous and i am brain storming ideas and possibilities.

did u get my point yet ?

 

[Yasser76]

u r absolutely missing the point, i am dissecting this vision..
with the new strategic global block it is all a possibikity that pakistan along with other navies will have marines deployed as part of coalition..
Secondly to hold india, you might be able to open a new front by deployin marines to release pressure on punjab??
It does not sound ridiculous and i am brain storming ideas and possibilities.

did u get my point yet ?

I get your point, I think we all do, the issue is not misunderstanding what you are saying, the issue is that what you are saying has no grounding in reality. In your mind you know think PN would rather have a Brigade of deployable marines and what? Send them to Mumbai to relieve pressure on Punjab? Send them to certain death, and while we are at it spend money that the navy could use to instead probably buy 6 air warfare destroyers???????

Once word of your post is correct, "ridiculous". Let's leave it at that. Next week we can discuss PAF developing a Millenium Falcon....

 

[Signalian]

I think we shall soon see a new shopping list from the Indian navy, their biggest worry is our new fleet of submarines, i must admit I'm impressed by their new smart anti submarine weapon test, if it actually is as claimed, but I'm sure we'll have something similar in few years, technically it isn't too hard, but it's good thinking.

No matter what Indian navy does, it's quiet clear that we have adopted a clear rational approach.

So far it had been defence of the coastline and port areas, enough to avoid a blockade.

Now, our defence line is the EEZ, the Indian navy should not be able to challenge us in that space, it seems logical that the next step will be the Arabian sea, that would give our merchant shipping greater secure lines of trade into the red sea than the open ocean.

Then we should be at the level of peer competitor navy.

In all this excitement about new ships, everyone has missed an awesome news, he mentioned a detailed survey of our EEZ for oil and gas resources.
And, according to him, it seems we may have the fourth largest gas reserves in the world. The next survey is to identify suitable drilling locations.

India has its own plans for future with vessels from Russia and some made in India. Indian Navy has potential to further expand through USA weapon systems and vessels as opposed to modernisation of Pakistan Navy. This news of gas reserves came last year, im not aware if this a recent development. India is making some of its vessels by itself, Pakistan should also turn towards developing own vessels and systems completely with expertise from China and Turkey (or Italy).

 

[peagle]

India has its own plans for future with vessels from Russia and some made in India. Indian Navy has potential to further expand through USA weapon systems and vessels as opposed to modernisation of Pakistan Navy. This news of gas reserves came last year, im not aware if this a recent development. India is making some of its vessels by itself, Pakistan should also turn towards developing own vessels and systems completely with expertise from China and Turkey (or Italy).

I suppose they've had a head start, considering their advantages, they been extremely poor at delivering. Even now the vessels being built in India have foreign origins, which I think is very poor.

100% it looks like we have starting on a journey of domestic autonomy and independent development.

The navy chief mentioned the gas reserves in his speech. It has been missed in all the excitement. We always hear about reserves in Pakistan but rarely in such manner from a naval chief.

Listen from about 12:45

 

[Basel]

For me division size marine force and expansion in ssgn is something very peculiar. What would be the significance of this expansion?

Will allow PA to put its troops with other areas where more man power is needed, also they will have more capability then PA to handle coastal areas as they are specialize force for the job.

 

[Ghessan]

N's adversary has always been Indian Navy, the threat sphere has grown due to CPEC Gwadar project. Either Chinese deploy their own assets or give assets to Pakistan to defend the sea routes. Looks like for now Chinese have chosen the latter.

very true, that is why i said in my previous post, all is planned well, financed and is in execution/implementation phase.

Pakistan will have a blue water navy, everyone keeps forgetting that Pakistan is the 5th largest country in the world with 227 million and projected to be 400 million, same size as America. That matters.

It is simply a case of decent economic growth, other countries have done it, in-fact, so have we, in the past decades and there is no reason we cant again. especially with peace in Afghanistan. I'm not blowing any trumpets, but eventually we will deserve a place among the leading nations of the world.
Size always matters.

Pakistan will not stop herself to become a blue water navy, not until as you said we need to grow economy.
we being 5th largest populated, is not a good of us.

 

[Zarvan]

@Zarvan your desire of 'biggies' will full fill. UVLS modules which can carry cruise, Ballistic, torpedo & air defense missiles will come to PN provided that everything goes as per plans.

And 20 Major ships (destroyers + frigates) and 30 smaller ships (corvettes + OPVs + FACM) is very sensible target.

Any further expansion, if needed, (and is needed) will take place after 2030. It's worth noting we are not becoming a Blue Water Navy. We are just preparing ourselves for future threats which can endanger Pakistan and Sino-Pak shared interests in the region.

@Rafi Chief didn't disclose deals involving additional subs of four different types. Two are pre 2030 and two are post 2030 programs. Looks like he still don't want to show his underwater cards. The best surprise is the one which enemy never expects coming.

Wait I was trying to count Destroyers and Frigates and Corvettes in major 20. You are saying Corvettes will not be in twenty major vessels. Yes I do realize after listening to outgoing Naval chief's speech that things I was demanding were totally reasonable demands, and not ridiculous. Which I was made to believe by several members here and friends outside this group.

Yes I do realize if Pakistan is developing long range Ballistic and Cruise Missiles which can be fired from ships and hit targets deep on land, than that automatically means Pakistan is going for big Frigates and Destroyers which have VLS to carry and fire those missiles.

What is making me angry and sad at same time is that whenever I would mention that Pakistan should induct Destroyers and heavy Frigates which can carry and fire long range land attack Cruise Missiles I was made fun of and taunted. The sad part is those who were doing this, were more informed and educated than me on these matters, and knew all along that I was right.

@Tipu7

 

[Reichmarshal]

Finally, the word is out on P282, I never thought that this project would be disclosed before the final testing. But still it's just a number so no details to be disclosed. I would have preferred the total surprise like the sub-launched cruise test but still this is going to be a massive offensive capability. Thanks to CPEC, PN is going is being transformed and they have some real good game-changer projects underway.

who said that that it has not met the specified parameters and is not ready for induction.

 

[Zarvan]

@Zarvan your desire of 'biggies' will full fill. UVLS modules which can carry cruise, Ballistic, torpedo & air defense missiles will come to PN provided that everything goes as per plans.

And 20 Major ships (destroyers + frigates) and 30 smaller ships (corvettes + OPVs + FACM) is very sensible target.

Any further expansion, if needed, (and is needed) will take place after 2030. It's worth noting we are not becoming a Blue Water Navy. We are just preparing ourselves for future threats which can endanger Pakistan and Sino-Pak shared interests in the region.

@Rafi Chief didn't disclose deals involving additional subs of four different types. Two are pre 2030 and two are post 2030 programs. Looks like he still don't want to show his underwater cards. The best surprise is the one which enemy never expects coming.

Wait I was trying to count Destroyers and Frigates and Corvettes in major 20. You are saying Corvettes will not be in twenty major vessels. Yes I do realize after listening to outgoing Naval chief's speech that things I was demanding were totally reasonable demands, and not ridiculous. Which I was made to believe by several members here and friends outside this group.

Yes I do realize if Pakistan is developing long range Ballistic and Cruise Missiles which can be fired from ships and hit targets deep on land, than that automatically means Pakistan is going for big Frigates and Destroyers which have VLS to carry and fire those missiles.

What is making me angry and sad at same time is that whenever I would mention that Pakistan should induct Destroyers and heavy Frigates which can carry and fire long range land attack Cruise Missiles I was made fun of and taunted. The sad part is those who were doing this, were more informed and educated than me on these matters, and knew all along that I was right.

I can read thanks. I am also aware that power projection does not nessacarily require a off shore marine capability it could mean many things. Nowhere does the vision suggest we need this capability. Russia, France and Japan can project maritime power without needs a large number of deployable marines.

Also try and base your posts in some sort of reality. The US Marines has 3 Divisions, 400 aircraft, 500 helicopters, 11 amphib assault ships. Even though could not fight an enemy without massive US Army and Navy help.

USA Marine size is around 180000 which makes 60000 per division.

@Rafi @Thorough Pro @Path-Finder

 

[Yasser76]

Wait I was trying to count Destroyers and Frigates and Corvettes in major 20. You are saying Corvettes will not be in twenty major vessels. Yes I do realize after listening to outgoing Naval chief's speech that things I was demanding were totally reasonable demands, and not ridiculous. Which I was made to believe by several members here and friends outside this group.

Yes I do realize if Pakistan is developing long range Ballistic and Cruise Missiles which can be fired from ships and hit targets deep on land, than that automatically means Pakistan is going for big Frigates and Destroyers which have VLS to carry and fire those missiles.

What is making me angry and sad at same time is that whenever I would mention that Pakistan should induct Destroyers and heavy Frigates which can carry and fire long range land attack Cruise Missiles I was made fun of and taunted. The sad part is those who were doing this, were more informed and educated than me on these matters, and knew all along that I was right.

USA Marine size is around 180000 which makes 60000 per division.

@Rafi @Thorough Pro @Path-Finder

No. Not every US Marine is in one of the 3 combat divisions just like not every Pakistani soldier is assigned to our infantry/armour divisions.

180,000 men is divided between combat divisions, air wings, training establishments, logistics troops etc.

 

[imranyounus]

Marines and special forces will most likely be deployed along the eastern coast border with Indian.

Un like China and Turkey who are looking at open sea operations in tiwan and syprus and other island's Pakistan Marines will most likely operate closer to land hence do not need larger landing platform.

Here the planned 20 gun boats come in. most likely these will be operated by Marines along with some landing crafts and helicopter.

 

[Basel]

Any prospects of retrofitting the in service Zulfiqar-class with VLS?

Possible with SAMs like Sea Captor or umkhonto.

 

[Yasser76]

Possible with SAMs like Sea Captor or umkhonto.

I would imagine PN may go after one standard naval SAM for MILGEM, Chinese Frigates and F-22P upgrade surely?

 

[Zarvan]

No. Not every US Marine is in one of the 3 combat divisions just like not every Pakistani soldier is assigned to our infantry/armour divisions.

180,000 men is divided between combat divisions, air wings, training establishments, logistics troops etc.

Still a division would at least mean 30000 most likley close to 40000 soldiers.

 

[Yasser76]

Still a division would at least mean 30000 most likley close to 40000 soldiers.

No, nowhere near that, Google search can find this....

" It is the oldest and largest active duty division in the United States Marine Corps, representing a combat-ready force of more than 19,000 men and women "

1st Marine Division - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org