Featured Ex PN Chief Zafar Mehmood Abbasi highlighted PN modernization

[Yasser76]

If we are going for Ships which have deck for helicopter and in case of bigger ships two helicopters than that automatically means we would be buying helicopters also. In my opinion it would be Leonardos helicopters.

I would like to assume that was the case, but they made such a big deal of Z-9 induction and even second hand Alouttes, it is strange that we do not seem to have evaluated or even discussed naval helicopter purchases

 

[FuturePAF]

Interestingly CNS made no mention of any upgrade to F-22P in his list of projects moving forward, and quite worryingly no mention of much needed helicopters for the bigger fleet of ships. These two are very pressing issues which I expected to be addressed too

If the CNS did mean the acquisition of the Type 052D, I hope he meant the Extended length hull, so we can try to fit 1 Z-20 ASW and 1 Z-18J AEW variant, along with a couple of drone Helicopters to support the ASW mission. The AEW Helicopter would be very useful in detecting sea skimming threats at longer ranges.

I agree the F-22P should not have been ignored as well, a modest upgrade of the mast with an integrated mast like the iMast 100 (but topped off with the same radar as planned for the Type 054A), at least would allow it to carry out better littoral patrols. it’s a platform that can be used to integrate Italian and European Sub-systems in the close in AAW and ASW domains; CAMM-ER and heavyweight long range Torpedos (like the Black Shark Advanced (BSA), Spearfish, or DM2A4) respectively. If each ship carried 16 CAMM-ER missiles and 12-18 Heavy Torpedos, it would make these ships a force the enemy will fear; CAMM-ER has a range out to 45 km and the Torpedos have ranged out to 50km. (Considering the Black Sharks are made by Italian Leonardo, it is the best option, especially because it was originally the torpedo meant for the Indian Scorpene submarines but the deal was cancelled. If we acquire them first, the Indian maybe reluctant to purchase them later.)

This would free up the heavier ships like the Type 054A and Type 052D to focus on AAW.

Also, If the navy does plan to go for the Type 052D, I hope it makes modifications to stay apace with Naval developments. The Arleigh Burke Flight III AMDR Variant will feature three large X-Band Radar above the Four panels of the S-Band. This opens up the possibility of tracking while scanning up to hundreds of threats at a time and being able to engage as many as needed. Secondly, I hope there is something like the Nulka decoy and inflatable decoys added to the ship as well as a radar high up in the mast to detect for Sea-skimmers along with room or VLS cells for at least 16 HQ-16 or CAMM-ER (or equivalent) to del with this threat. Finally, the addition of the AEW Helicopter would be a game changer for the navy, especially if they are operating Type 052D destroyers. It would put less of a demand on air support from land based sites to come in and provide protection in a time of war.

BTW, All this talk of the Indian “SMART”; Supersonic missile carrying a torpedo capability. It is also available on the Type 052D in the form of the CY-5 missile with a torpedo.

 

[Yasser76]

<quote> Into 2300 (ton) Corvettes, the lead ship PNS Yarmook has been inducted while the second ship Tabook will join Pakistan Navy fleet by November this year. As a follow-up, six additional ships with larger tonnage are being contracted <unquote> CNS Zafar Mehmood Abbasi

Going by his own wording, he used the word 'follow-up order' after mentioning the two Damen Yarmook class corvettes and mentioned that this order would be of 'higher tonnage' and the process is 'being contracted'.

This logically speaking, points to a heavier (and 8m longer) version of corvette from Damen Shipyard most probably a 2600 tonne variant, But I dont think that the outing CNS was pointing towards the Type 52D or Type 55 for that matter.

An 8m lengthened Yarmook class (Damen OPV 2600) makes most sense as the extra length could be used to incorporate VLS or an existing VLS with more tubes while most of the other systems and subsystems remain the same adding to standardization and cost effectiveness. We would probably get a base unequipped version as the case with first 2 Yarmook class ships and get it equipped with different systems we could get our hands on. Additionally, 6 lengthened Yarmook class ships could be evenly distributed with 2 such ships in each of the Task forces 1,2 and 3.

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He didnt said that he is revealing all purchases or projects, he just highlighed some. It is but obvious that 20 of those 'big ships' that he mentioned would operate some helicopter from their deck. So i dont see anything to be worried here.

I would argue with first Yarmook arriving and first Chinese Frigate imminent that we should have purchased and started training on a new helcopter type already.

If you discard the Alloutte IIIs that are old and being retired (and pretty useless in combat) and the land based Sea Kings, we only have 6 Z-9s left, of those we can only assume 4 operational at any one time, that leaves us 4 choppers divided by 12 major surface ships (be end of this year)

 

[Zarvan]

I would like to assume that was the case, but they made such a big deal of Z-9 induction and even second hand Alouttes, it is strange that we do not seem to have evaluated or even discussed naval helicopter purchases

Naval cheif was never going to reveal entire plan

 

[Yasser76]

Naval cheif was never going to reveal entire plan

Even if not, fact remains Pak Navy have no new choppers coming in the immediate future.

 

[Zarvan]

Even if not, fact remains Pak Navy have no new choppers coming in the immediate future.

If they are from Leonardo than that company has great record of supplying the helicopters at really fast pace.

 

[Yasser76]

If they are from Leonardo than that company has great record of supplying the helicopters at really fast pace.

I hope so, but remember these will not be simple transport choppers, we may need to install and test very complex equipment, weapons trials, sea trials. I am not trying to be negative here, but increasingly, and unless we move fast, we will be sending many PN ships on patrol without any organic chopper capability. That is worrying on so many levels (Combat, anti-terror/piracy, seaborne resupply, Medical evacuation of sick sailors etc).

 

[Zarvan]

I hope so, but remember these will not be simple transport choppers, we may need to install and test very complex equipment, weapons trials, sea trials. I am not trying to be negative here, but increasingly, and unless we move fast, we will be sending many PN ships on patrol without any organic chopper capability. That is worrying on so many levels (Combat, anti-terror/piracy, seaborne resupply, Medical evacuation of sick sailors etc).

We do things quietly. Trust me job is being done.

 

[Ark_Angel]

Why CNS did not mention about F-22P upgrade program or the induction of Helos? It’s because his emphasis was on the modernisation program which was concluded under his watch. F-22P upgrade program is under study since a while now keeping in view the timeline it will be finalised under the watch of the new CNS and more offers for the new Helos have been received from both east and west and are under evaluation phase. As far as the Yarmouk program goes: the vessels are to be 2+6 2 contracted with the offer of 4 more by Damen. Depends on how satisfied is the Navy from these vessels. Where’s as the heavier beasts that I mentioned
They are also from both east and west. Which 1 is finalised and contracted only the time will tell.
Regards

 

[Zarvan]

Why CNS did not mention about F-22P upgrade program or the induction of Helos? It’s because his emphasis was on the modernisation program which was concluded under his watch. F-22P upgrade program is under study since a while now keeping in view the timeline it will be finalised under the watch of the new CNS and more offers for the new Helos have been received from both east and west and are under evaluation phase. As far as the Yarmouk program goes: the vessels are to be 2+6 2 contracted with the offer of 4 more by Damen. Depends on how satisfied is the Navy from these vessels. Where’s as the heavier beasts that I mentioned
They are also from both east and west. Which 1 is finalised and contracted only the time will tell.
Regards

What Destroyer could come from west ??? From east we have option of Type 52 D and Type 55 Destroyers what are our options from west ??? Aegis Destroyer ???

 

[Ark_Angel]

What Destroyer could come from west ??? From east we have option of Type 52 D and Type 55 Destroyers what are our options from west ??? Aegis Destroyer ???

Can’t tell everything on an open source platform. But they aren’t Aegis to be precise. West offers a lot of different platforms.

 

[Zarvan]

Can’t tell everything on an open source platform. But they aren’t Aegis to be precise. West offers a lot of different platforms.

Well good to know. So let see what it could be.

 

[kursed]

Can’t tell everything on an open source platform. But they aren’t Aegis to be precise. West offers a lot of different platforms.

Interesting that you said West. French seem to be back at being friendly with us.

 

[Armchair]

For me division size marine force and expansion in ssgn is something very peculiar. What would be the significance of this expansion?

Looks like a force custom-designed for Signalian's brilliant battle plans for Rann of Kutch.

 

[Zarvan]

Interesting that you said West. French seem to be back at being friendly with us.

It could be either French or Italian