Ex-navy chief:Op Parakram was mistake

[American Pakistani]

whatever makes you happy but do remember that when they actually do cross the border the other side either ends up defending their own land or ends up splitting into two. ok now continue with your "i am all powerful" tarana

Put it in your head that 71 was the only war Pakistan lost & that also due to internal chaos & instability where 54% of entire Pakistani population wanted indepandance, the territory was miles away from mainland & surrounded by enemy completely from three sides where as Russians were to protect indian @$$ in Bay of Bengal, air route was also closed which also passes over India, after all these crises India waited along long 9 months to attack & than finally attacked like a coward. What is proud of it it was a cowardly win when just 42000 Pakistani troops in a land surrounded by enemy & its ally, on a land totally cutoff from mainland, were fighting with terrorists who brainwashed the locals & totally turned them against Pakistan.

 

[MilSpec]

Indians superiority lies only in their sheer numbers- They are lucky 1.6+ billion with no balls- other wise we would have eaten them alive by now - all they can do is bluff and gather their forces along the border for mass general public consumption-

those who dont learn from their history are condemned to repeat the same mistakes over and over.... stay in your bubble and be happy

---------- Post added at 12:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 AM ----------

Put it in your head that 71 was the only war Pakistan lost & that also due to internal chaos & instability where 54% of entire Pakistani population wanted indepandance, the territory was miles away from mainland & surrounded by enemy completely from three sides where as Russians were to protect indian @$$ in Bay of Bengal, air route was also closed which also passes over India, after all these crises India waited along long 9 months to attack & than finally attacked like a coward. What is proud of it it was a cowardly win when just 42000 Pakistani troops in a land surrounded by enemy & its ally, on a land totally cutoff from mainland, were fighting with terrorists who brainwashed the locals & totally turned them against Pakistan.

this where the problem lies... you people are brain washed into believing you won in 1948,1965 and kargil... you need to open your eyes and face the facts...

 

[Bhairava]

I didn't Say Congress would have handled it better........We Indians cannot tolerate Criticism..........

Its not 'lack of tolerating criticism'..but just a crticism of lack of critical reasoning and going by popular word.

No offence..But i find this is most people regarding Op.Parakram and Kandahar hijack in which a well-oiled anti-NDA media has given the illusion of both being failures without analysing the causes/repurcussions of both in detail.

 

[Bhairava]

So the mobilization takes place after the attack on Indian parliament, yet according to you the exercise was to kill off the Kashmir cause .....the culprits must have sussed it out....any wonder then they followed up with an attack on Mumbai.

The parliament was attacked because of Kashmir. or so the terrorists thought.

So we addressed the root situation.

Funny, I wonder if there is a sheer coincidence in the jihadi tap suddenly starting to running dry after 2002 after peaking in 2001 which was also the time frame of Op.Parakram.

 

[American Pakistani]

this where the problem lies... you people are brain washed into believing you won in 1948,1965 and kargil... you need to open your eyes and face the facts...

It is you people who are brainwashed.

BTW i don't want offtopics here.

 

[AUz]

Indians superiority lies only in their sheer numbers- They are lucky 1.6+ billion with no balls- other wise we would have eaten them alive by now - all they can do is bluff and gather their forces along the border for mass general public consumption-

EXACTLY ! I wonder what if bhartis were 180 million too ? Same number of planes,same number of troops,same number of tanks and battle ships? Same amount of territory to operate from? Pakistan would've RIPPED THEM APART by now ! They were atleast 5 TIMES bigger in ALL wars and yet they couldn't over-run Pakistani military in the West-Pakistan sector.East Pakistan wasn't even a military loss for Pakistan..it was a political disaster and we paid the price .Anyone who knows a bit about warfare and geo-politics would agree (Even Bharat Verma agrees with me lol But yeah little divya knows more..hah ! )

this where the problem lies... you people are brain washed into believing you won in 1948,1965 and kargil... you need to open your eyes and face the facts...

Look who is talking? A bharti It's YOU who are so badly brainwashed.We DO see your "media" ...Incredible India, 10 steps and Pakistan is over , ISI involved in everything , Pakistani Army planned Mumbai, 5 super weapons of India , Your retarded Army chief saying "We are capable of fighting Pakistan and China simultaneously" etc etc etc etc etc THIS is how you poor little bhartis are brainwashed..People in India STILL think that Indian Army is capable of doing surgical strikes and Pakistan would prove to be a walk in park for great India

Bhartis are perfect example of being brainwashed.

 

[Secur]

this where the problem lies... you people are brain washed into believing you won in 1948,1965 and kargil... you need to open your eyes and face the facts...

and it is you who need to stay on the topic ... we are discussing Op Parakram not 1971 , not 1948 , not 1965 and not 1999 ... so no need to be a smart alec

 

[deckingraj]

The parliament was attacked because of Kashmir. or so the terrorists thought.

So we addressed the root situation.

Funny, I wonder if there is a sheer coincidence in the jihadi tap suddenly starting to running dry after 2002 after peaking in 2001 which was also the time frame of Op.Parakram.

Look buddy i understand your point but it is imperative that we should know the Aim of an operation before calling it a failure or success....The problem with Operation Parakram was that govt. did not have a clear objective.....It was certainly humiliating to have all your troops mobilized and then pulling them back without any visible actions...Now you can say that it put pressure on Pakistan or whatever but the reality is that we lost more troops then what we lost in Kargil....A good amount of money was spent and yet nothing concrete.....

As far as militancy is concerned then we are still saying that infrastructure is intact....Better gadgets and Pakistan occupancy in their western border is another catalyst for lower terror incidents...not saying Op. Parakram does not have a role but calling the entire operation a success for being one of the reasons in reducing violence in valley is an overstatement...

 

[Bhairava]

Look buddy i understand your point but it is imperative that we should know the Aim of an operation before calling it a failure or success....The problem with Operation Parakram was that govt. did not have a clear objective.....It was certainly humiliating to have all your troops mobilized and then pulling them back without any visible actions...Now you can say that it put pressure on Pakistan or whatever but the reality is that we lost more troops then what we lost in Kargil....A good amount of money was spent and yet nothing concrete.....

If you look carefully at my posts, I never said the Govt had anything concrete in mind before the commencement of the Operation. It might have had/might not have had. (click)

My point is not that. My point is that whether there was any benefit/end result of that Operation and certainly it had. Call it lady luck, or call it a very well scripted thought process..it doesnt matter. It was the result that mattered and certainly it is not the abject failure that people think Operation Parakram was.

yes there was a buildup but no action. But that in itself doesnt mean it was a failure.

As far as militancy is concerned then we are still saying that infrastructure is intact....Better gadgets and Pakistan occupancy in their western border is another catalyst for lower terror incidents...not saying Op. Parakram does not have a role but calling the entire operation a success for being one of the reasons in reducing violence in valley is an overstatement...

Again you seem to have misunderstood my post. It was not a success on the scale of Operation Meghdoot (Siachen) or Operation Jackpot (1971) but certainly it was not a failure as it is made out to be either.

We learned so much things- our mobilization deficiencies, response time and they are in the process of being sorted out. If there was a failure then I would call the Indian response to 26/11 as one..not the Parliament attack.

 

[MastanKhan]

yeah, that operation was a total waste of resources for us.

Hi,

No it was not----the operation was a success---there was political reasoning behind it-----which Vajpayee didnot want to bring it out in the open----. America was back with its old love---pakistan---and india was left out of the picture----what parakram did was bring india into the limelight once again-----pakistans attention moved away from its primary target---the escaping al qaeda----.

Pak millitary got bogged down facing its other border----the real enemy escaped and hid in the civilian population---indian publicity brought it back into the limelight one more time.

India got promised a ton of goodies by the american to not get into a war---they agreed---and you can now see the rewards that the indians are getting.

 

[westtowel]

After Op Parakram Pakistan was scared hitless

 

[Mike2011]

Come on buddy........The Plane landed at Amritsar Air port for re-fueling, but Punjab police were asked to wait ...............
Then from Amritsar Via Karachi it reached Dubai.........Them Indian Government asked UAE permission for Commando Operation........which was denied and rest is history..........

What could have they achieved in UAE or Kandhar which they couldn't do in Amritsar ...............

Have you seen Israel releasing 1000 terrorists for 1 citizen? Safety of citizen is first priority of gov. If command op fails and they blow up entire plan? Think of situation, if your loved ones are in the plane.

 

[Mike2011]

The Indian cost for the buildup was 21,600 crore (US$4.82 billion), while the Pakistani cost was $1.4 billion. Also it took India months to mobilize and lost 789 men in the process... around 200 in the initial phase of laying mines.

After remaining paralysed on the border for almost a year, the Indian forces withdraw was unilateral and seen as both humiliating and soul destroying.

I wants to destroy some ones house. if the owner himself destroys his own house after looking at me. What should i do? I will return.

 

[Secur]

Hi,

No it was not----the operation was a success---there was political reasoning behind it-----which Vajpayee didnot want to bring it out in the open----. America was back with its old love---pakistan---and india was left out of the picture----what parakram did was bring india into the limelight once again-----pakistans attention moved away from its primary target---the escaping al qaeda----.

Pak millitary got bogged down facing its other border----the real enemy escaped and hid in the civilian population---indian publicity brought it back into the limelight one more time.

India got promised a ton of goodies by the american to not get into a war---they agreed---and you can now see the rewards that the indians are getting.

the question remains could India attack Pakistan without triggering a mutually assured destruction ? and India's getting ton of goodies to contain China ... There isn't any other reason ... Had it been , India would have got all these immediately after 2002 ...

 

[deckingraj]

If you look carefully at my posts, I never said the Govt had anything concrete in mind before the commencement of the Operation. It might have had/might not have had. (click)

My point is not that. My point is that whether there was any benefit/end result of that Operation and certainly it had. Call it lady luck, or call it a very well scripted thought process..it doesnt matter. It was the result that mattered and certainly it is not the abject failure that people think Operation Parakram was.

yes there was a buildup but no action. But that in itself doesnt mean it was a failure.

See my point is very simple...If you have gone for an operation with certain aims in mind and achieve it...it is success...otherwise a failure...Now India mobilized its forces without any particular Aim/Objective...in short this operation was a failure right from the word go....

Now any amount of Lady luck cannot change this basic fact...You are trying to put the success in Kashmir with operation Parakram which is not true...Yes this operation played its part but that's about it...

Again you seem to have misunderstood my post. It was not a success on the scale of Operation Meghdoot (Siachen) or Operation Jackpot (1971) but certainly it was not a failure as it is made out to be either.

You know what this kind of arguments don't help....Mush also used the same line to prove that Kargil was a success for Pakistan...because this operation forced India to bring Kashmir back to talking table...Now do you buy that argument??? I centainly don't....Geo-political objectives should be handled in Diplomacy and if Army is being called then it should be used...You should not bring your Army right on the border to deliver your geo-political message...

We learned so much things- our mobilization deficiencies, response time and they are in the process of being sorted out.

Of-course every failure brings in some lessons to be learned...but that don't make the failure a success...

If there was a failure then I would call the Indian response to 26/11 as one..not the Parliament attack.

On the contrary GOI handled it pretty well..In fact much better than 2003...Military option was looked at and then wisely diplomacy was chosen...and boy we did go after Pakistan like a maniac...Don't you think so???

---------- Post added at 10:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 PM ----------

the question remains could India attack Pakistan without triggering a mutually assured destruction ? and India's getting ton of goodies to contain China ... There isn't any other reason ... Had it been , India would have got all these immediately after 2002 ...

Didn't you pulled Kargil while we both had nukes??? Relations b/w states just don't change overnight..it is a long process...Though i have some reservations over what MK is saying but just want to clarify it...