Ex CIA officer on IAF strike on NLI's Munto Dhalo Depot.

[third eye]

LoL - I recall the poor indian soldiers whimpering like little girls - crying out for their mothers - when we opened fire on their poorly planned frontal assaults. Some of our boys attempted to give them water, risking their own lives, the smell of a thousand latrines as the poor indians were systematically - eaten by dogs, and consumed by maggots.

The smell will never be forgotten, as the vast swarms of beetles and fly's that made it look like some sort of moving carpet, the indian officers - who's name tags could be clearly seen through the scope, who's brains were distributed over the mountain with a head shot.

We still control peaks that can shut down vital enemy highway's and we killed hundreds of soldiers.

This should help clear perceptions..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS8cKBgNsOI

 

[Capt.Popeye]

LoL - I recall the poor indian soldiers whimpering like little girls - crying out for their mothers - when we opened fire on their poorly planned frontal assaults. Some of our boys attempted to give them water, risking their own lives, the smell of a thousand latrines as the poor indians were systematically - eaten by dogs, and consumed by maggots.

The smell will never be forgotten, as the vast swarms of beetles and fly's that made it look like some sort of moving carpet, the indian officers - who's name tags could be clearly seen through the scope, who's brains were distributed over the mountain with a head shot.

We still control peaks that can shut down vital enemy highway's and we killed hundreds of soldiers.

LOLLL, PDF's Resident "Cacofonix the Bard" re-appears!

Mr. Bard, here is another evocative piece on Kargil written by another Pakistani Gentleman:

What can one conclude !
It was the human heart that failed in Kargil and this heart which failed was housed in the ribcage of men sitting in the GHQ and not on the rocky pinnacles of Kargil ! Once the supply lines were closed under Indian threat of a counter attack , these brave men all Pakistan Army regulars were abandoned to die , pounded by artillery fire , bayoneted by overwhelming numbers , weakened by starvation !

Who can hear their cries !
Our ears are covered with heaps of lies !
Truth died at Kargil !
What remains is a body guard of lies!

The above lines were penned by Maj.(R) Agha Humayun Amin, P.A.
A Soldier who served his nation in uniform, and who wields his pen with as much felicity as he did his sword; don't you think?

 

[OrionHunter]

Wow!!! 300 casualties in a single strike...

But friend Windjammer and his ilk stress that the IA lost the war with heavy casualties and that the PA had to withdraw not due to the hammering they received, or due to the total failure of logistics support but because of American pressure! Oh yeah!

So, thanks to America or the Indians would have got their a$$es kicked!! Jeeeez!

 

[Doctor Death]

Kargil war secret: IAF used ‘jugaad’
Published September 22, 2012 | By admin
SOURCE: Hindustan Times

The Indian Air Force’s best kept secret is out: Its stellar role in the Kargil victory 13 years ago had as much to do with its pilots and planes as that great Indian trick, jugaad.

Pilots flew real-time missions with hand-held GPS sets to home in on high-altitude targets, usually tiny contingents of Pakistanis occupying Indian positions. And its aces used hand-held video cameras to record bombing runs for post-op analysis back at the base.



The IAF’s “innovative use of airpower (was) one of the excellent features of the Kargil operations”, says a new study of the war by Benjamin Lambeth, an airpower historian, released on Thursday.

“A senior officer told me there was a word for these innovations -jugaad,” said Lambeth.

The challenge for the IAF in Kargil was unprecedented. No air force had ever been tasked to bomb targets at elevations of 14,000 to 18,000 ft, against a backdrop that made spotting impossible. To top it, there were instructions to not cross the LoC.

A serving IAF pilot, who did not want to be identified, said, “We did use hand-held commercial GPS units, except they were not really hand-held…They were fixed in front, in a bracket.”

So, what other jugaad did the IAF do?

Shooting up an avalanche, says Lambeth.

Pilots knew if you couldn’t bomb dispersed enemy soldiers, you could hit them with something they least expected: shooting on a mountain side triggered an avalanche. Snow came tumbling down, in a rushing sweep.

There is more. Kargil was just the start. Or was it?

Kargil war secret: IAF used ‘jugaad’ | idrw.org

 

[Windjammer]

In their own words, the Indian Commanders who were on the ground fighting in the Kargil war, it doesn't get more authentic than this.

 

[Doctor Death]

This video will disturb many Pakistanis after all truth hurts:

 

[Windjammer]

This should put out the Indian fires with gasoline.

THE FACTS OF KARGIL CONFLICT

We have fought a great war in the mountains of kashmir, but unfortunately, our then coward prime minister betrayed the nation and we had to retreat, and then, india has used its full propaganda machine to try to come out of a victory after such a humilation at the hands of few hundred mujahideens.
Some facts are:
1.Total number of Mujahideen, at any stage did not exceed approx: 1000.
2. They captured one of the most difficult terrain and in intense cold enviornment.
3. They completely evaded the indian intelligence machine and the (made in india)satellites pictures.
4. It was a total surprise to indians when sheperds brought the news of invasion to indian military machine, which took some days to realize its importance.
5. Indian chief of staff did not even cancelled his foreign visit.
6. The first search party of 60 indian soldiers was completely annihilated and none of them returned.
7. The second search party of 259 indian soldiers was either annihalited or injured.
8. The first camberra reconisance mission ended up in a damaged camberra plane, which did land in srinagar and brought to indians the actual scale of invasion.
9. Two indian planes were downed including a mig 21 and mig 27.
10. An indian helicopter was downed.
11. Airforce totallly stopped all its operations and so did the military helicopters.
12. It took long time for the indian airforce to come back again, but only with mirage 2000 planes dropping bombs from high altitude…and also using laser guided bombs.
13. A barrage of artillery pounding continued for the next 6 weeks, and in the end, even bofor guns were employed, in order to score, as there did not seems to be any change in Mujahideen positions.
14. There was a huge loss to indian military . there was a shortage of coffins. About 1700 indian soldiers died and more than the same number injured.
15. About 50 bofors bombs were used per mujahideen amounting to US$50000 per person, apart from the various other ammunition used extensively including artillery shells, rockets from ground launchers and air and infantry attacks.
16. After all this efforts for nearly 2 months, it took Clinton to come to india´s rescue, and pakistan had to retreat with 370 losses in life.

 

[karan.1970]

This should put out the Indian fires with gasoline.

THE FACTS OF KARGIL CONFLICT

We have fought a great war in the mountains of kashmir, but unfortunately, our then coward prime minister betrayed the nation and we had to retreat, and then, india has used its full propaganda machine to try to come out of a victory after such a humilation at the hands of few hundred mujahideens.
Some facts are:
1.Total number of Mujahideen, at any stage did not exceed approx: 1000.
2. They captured one of the most difficult terrain and in intense cold enviornment.
3. They completely evaded the indian intelligence machine and the (made in india)satellites pictures.
4. It was a total surprise to indians when sheperds brought the news of invasion to indian military machine, which took some days to realize its importance.
5. Indian chief of staff did not even cancelled his foreign visit.
6. The first search party of 60 indian soldiers was completely annihilated and none of them returned.
7. The second search party of 259 indian soldiers was either annihalited or injured.
8. The first camberra reconisance mission ended up in a damaged camberra plane, which did land in srinagar and brought to indians the actual scale of invasion.
9. Two indian planes were downed including a mig 21 and mig 27.
10. An indian helicopter was downed.
11. Airforce totallly stopped all its operations and so did the military helicopters.
12. It took long time for the indian airforce to come back again, but only with mirage 2000 planes dropping bombs from high altitude…and also using laser guided bombs.
13. A barrage of artillery pounding continued for the next 6 weeks, and in the end, even bofor guns were employed, in order to score, as there did not seems to be any change in Mujahideen positions.
14. There was a huge loss to indian military . there was a shortage of coffins. About 1700 indian soldiers died and more than the same number injured.
15. About 50 bofors bombs were used per mujahideen amounting to US$50000 per person, apart from the various other ammunition used extensively including artillery shells, rockets from ground launchers and air and infantry attacks.
16. After all this efforts for nearly 2 months, it took Clinton to come to india´s rescue, and pakistan had to retreat with 370 losses in life.

Any credible link to the so called facts above or simply Khalil mian fakhta udda rahen hain???

The end game on Kargil is simply a complete loss of credibility internationally for Pakistan on Kashmir issue.. The Pakistani CoAS being caught out in a white lie thru the recordings.. Pakistani Prime Minister having to rush to USA to garner some support for a face saving withdrawal but badly snubbed by Clinton. Pakistani army losing 4000+ soldiers as per the account of then Prime Minister of Pakistan

And Yes.. Pakistan gained point 5353.. Good trade...

 

[Windjammer]

Any credible link to the so called facts above or simply Khalil mian fakhta udda rahen hain???

Compare it with anything from a neutral source but not with some thing claimed by Gobar Parsad.

Damn. what's up with this site today.

 

[Windjammer]

Double post

 

[SQ8]

The fact remains.. that until the combination of LGB's and M2K's came into effect.. the IAF was fairly less effective than it would want to be. The only previous successes were achieved by graduates of the TACDE flying mig-27's.

And 300 causalities is quite probable.. small area on a peak.. densely packed troops and ammunition is a recipe for disaster. The abandonment by the PA high command that was to follow was however, much more painful than 300 dead.
After all, 300 dead is not morale sapping as long as there is a gung ho spirit available..but 300 dead is morale sapping when you find out that you have just been orphaned by your "brave" Jarnail sb.
And this is not the first time the PA abandoned "infiltrators".. the lessons of Op Gibraltar.. where the infiltrators were even worse equipped were forgotten by Musharaff and his Cabal. After all, they have the Corp commanders mansions and plots.. who cares for a hundred dead troops here and there.

However..
Here is another fact..
THIS TOPIC SHOULD REMAIN ON THE IAF AIRSTRIKE IN KARGIL AND NO MORE.
anything beyond this post that does so.. even mentioning the rest of the war or otherwise.
will turn pink for an extremely long duration and that is my word.

 

[Alphacharlie]

The fact remains.. that until the combination of LGB's and M2K's came into effect.. the IAF was fairly less effective than it would want to be. The only previous successes were achieved by graduates of the TACDE flying mig-27's.

And 300 causalities is quite probable.. small area on a peak.. densely packed troops and ammunition is a recipe for disaster. The abandonment by the PA high command that was to follow was however, much more painful than 300 dead.
After all, 300 dead is not morale sapping as long as there is a gung ho spirit available..but 300 dead is morale sapping when you find out that you have just been orphaned by your "brave" Jarnail sb.
And this is not the first time the PA abandoned "infiltrators".. the lessons of Op Gibraltar.. where the infiltrators were even worse equipped were forgotten by Musharaff and his Cabal. After all, they have the Corp commanders mansions and plots.. who cares for a hundred dead troops here and there.

However..
Here is another fact..
THIS TOPIC SHOULD REMAIN ON THE IAF AIRSTRIKE IN KARGIL AND NO MORE.
anything beyond this post that does so.. even mentioning the rest of the war or otherwise.
will turn pink for an extremely long duration and that is my word.

Oscar - Appreciated for putting the reality

 

[Kaniska]

Indian newspapers and their public believe--or say they believe--that the conflict in Dras-Kargil last year was a military victory for India. In fact, it was a war 'won' by briefings and a slavishly supportive media. The Indian public wanted to be assured of 'victory,' and every effort was made to provide that assurance. Kargil was disastrous for Pakistan in worldwide political terms, and was an important public relations coup for the Indian government, both internally (in the run-up to the election), and internationally. But militarily it was a shambles for India whose brave but ill-prepared soldiers suffered gravely and would have sustained even heavier casualties had the conflict continued. The prime minister of Pakistan was ordered by the president of the United States to withdraw his troops from a successful military operation and this was done in time to save the Vajpayee government from the wave of criticism that would have swamped it had the confrontation not been stopped.

Source: "War Drums are Beating" Brian Cloughley.

I beleive you ...becoz from neutral sources even i have also read the same thing....Militarily although Pakistan did not win but but Pakistan is not lost either..it was a just stalemet....And it is the sheer Indian diplomacy that has rescued India from disaster....

 

[Death Rattle]

300 dead in a single attack.Cool.

 

[Amolthebest]

That attack was last nail on the straw. Involved PA soldiers fate were sealed after that attack.