Ex-chief of army, Gen VK Singh, no longer has security or bullet-proof car

[arp2041]

GREAT post! 100% agreed- there is a level of ignorance when it comes to understanding framing of policies and how to play politics. All to often politcians are painted with the same brush with sweeping generalistions which means that the comman man has very low opnions of them and even less understanding of what they do. This is dangerous as it means that groups of ignorant masses can collect together and call for stupid policies (capital punishment for rape) or object to sensible and needed devlopments (nuke power plants) with little understanding as to the ramifications of their own actions.


I am all for democracy but as Winston Churchill remarked:

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter"

The problem is that common people don't understand how the laws in India are made, they think all the laws are solely made by the ruling party, which is not at all the case, for framing important laws which will have great effects across India, there are Parliamentary committees (standing committee) - on finance, on defence etc. who discuss the pros & cons of the law & comes to a conclusion only when majority of members are saying yes to it, now these committees consists of representatives from every party of the Parliament irrespective of if they form the ruling coalition or not, like standing committee of finance consists of former FM Mr. yashwant sinha who is the leader of BJP & many a times he has proposed amendments to a bill & if govt. finds it do need an amendment they agree to it, now this a tricky affair since opposition nearly oppose everything, so what final law we get is the best possible since opposition often thinks about common man.

 

[janon]

Now back to topic: The withdrawal of security is completely in line with established procedure. Very few individuals are given Z+ category security after retirement. Only a handful of people in India (serving or retired) actually have Z+ category security. In the case of army officers, only the ones with a real threat from terrorist groups are given security for life, and that too in the Z category. The seniormost officers involved in operation bluestar is an example. Lt Gn Brar is the only remaining person, the other two were AS Vaidya and Gen Sunderji. Brar has Z category security for life because there are several Sikh groups still baying for his blood. AFAIK, no other officer enjoys govt security long after retirement.

 

[arp2041]

INTO parliament, rather than trying to gherao it.
While he was in office he didn't pointed fingers at GOI and neither did shared platforms with different persons having different political affiliations except in one case which was well within the domain of constitution .
After retiring from office he is free to go after his goal as he please.In India Gheoring is not considered unruly we have our own way of protesting ,do you know why this protest was called ?? DELHI has become rape capital of India.Many rape cases paased by but Our government failed to take any preventive measures.They needed shake up so we had to comply.
There is difference between sitting in foreign countries and daily facing the problem in day to day life.

Din't u had any other argument than to point out this thing?? I am saying more or less the same thing sitting in India as what @janon is saying, does it change anything?? In fact i think NRIs better knows the conditions prevailing in India than the Indians themselves

 

[Hobo1]

Where is that Chot!ya Raul Gandhi hiding these days. Why doesn't he go to rape victim's house and breaks Roti with them.

 

[ILLUMINATO]

Right, I knew that sooner or later someone will make this a personal attack about sitting in foreign countries. Whether I'm in a foreign country or India, my source of information is the same as yours - mainstream media and the internet. You don't have an upper hand because you happen to be located closer to the protests. Analysing the situation is also not dependent on where you or I are.

Anyway what exactly are the protesters in delhi protesting? Protesting against rape? Does that even make any sort of sense? Do you think that potential rapists are going to be deterred because public opinion is unfavourable to them? Do you think rapists depend on votes for their actions? If not, what is thew logic in "protesting" against rape and destroying public property?

Did the outrageous gang rape happen due to government or police inaction? If not, what is the bloody point of making this a government v/s people issue? "Protesting rape" - that never made sense to me from day one. The moment I saw protests gathering force on national TV (probably the same source that you learnt it from, despite you being in India), I knew that it was bound to happen, that law and order will go for a toss. And I was right.

This is a classic case of mob fury where people are angry without knowing who to be angry against. Rebels without a cause. There is no law or policing system in the world that can prevent sadistic incidents like this from happening. All we can do in such cases is to punish the guilty ones. The only people who deserve our anger in this case are the six men who raped and assaulted the couple. Not the police, not the government.

And mind you, people in foreign countries also face problems in day to day lives.

I acknowledge everyone everywhere faces problem but definitely not same as ours ,you take care of your problems the way you like
and let us handle our problems our way.Desperate problems needs drastic solutions.If you add 1 +2 you will get 3 if you do it time n again you will get same 3 .The very same way till date 500+ rapes cases were registered this year and goverment failed to take any action to curb this menace.,government was in deep slumber .Then we thought to wake up government from her deep slumber by doing something different and as of now we seem to have succeed .GOI has taken many steps to check this menace.We got results in the end which matters.

 

[arp2041]

Right, I knew that sooner or later someone will make this a personal attack about sitting in foreign countries. Whether I'm in a foreign country or India, my source of information is the same as yours - mainstream media and the internet. You don't have an upper hand because you happen to be located closer to the protests. Analysing the situation is also not dependent on where you or I are.

Anyway what exactly are the protesters in delhi protesting? Protesting against rape? Does that even make any sort of sense? Do you think that potential rapists are going to be deterred because public opinion is unfavourable to them? Do you think rapists depend on votes for their actions? If not, what is thew logic in "protesting" against rape and destroying public property?

Did the outrageous gang rape happen due to government or police inaction? If not, what is the bloody point of making this a government v/s people issue? "Protesting rape" - that never made sense to me from day one. The moment I saw protests gathering force on national TV (probably the same source that you learnt it from, despite you being in India), I knew that it was bound to happen, that law and order will go for a toss. And I was right.

This is a classic case of mob fury where people are angry without knowing who to be angry against. Rebels without a cause. There is no law or policing system in the world that can prevent sadistic incidents like this from happening. All we can do in such cases is to punish the guilty ones. The only people who deserve our anger in this case are the six men who raped and assaulted the couple. Not the police, not the government.

And mind you, people in foreign countries also face problems in day to day lives.

GREAT POST MATE

Not in my hand else i would hv given 1000 thanks

 

[ILLUMINATO]

Din't u had any other argument than to point out this thing?? I am saying more or less the same thing sitting in India as what @janon is saying, does it change anything?? In fact i think NRIs better knows the conditions prevailing in India than the Indians themselves

NRI knows better??Really??
Well we can agree to disagree.

 

[arp2041]

NRI knows better??Really??
Well we can agree to disagree.

Yes, b'coz they are far from there motherland & we care for things only when it goes away from us (human psychology), ask any NRI, they follow Indian culture more than i & u do, follow Indian news, shows, movies, etc. No doubt a major source of revenue for Bollywood are the NRIs in UK & US.

 

[ILLUMINATO]

Yes, b'coz they are far from there motherland & we care for things only when it goes away from us (human psychology), ask any NRI, they follow Indian culture more than i & u do, follow Indian news, shows, movies, etc. No doubt a major source of revenue for Bollywood are the NRIs in UK & US.

And you should know one more thing the major contributor to our forex reserve are our workers working in middle- east leaving under very pitiable conditions, not these affluent NRIs of western countries.Though I don't have anything against them and don't say they don't love India .But their conscience regarding our problems can't match our level.

 

[arp2041]

When government is failed to protect the common people interest and busy in corruption and have put country in big trouble then people need to come forward. In 120 crore people more then 90% are just sheep. But rest need to come forward. We need discipline leaders.. Why do we need to afraid of lokpall bill ? Can you expect anything better from these MP's and MLA ? We should have a law to control the freedom of these politicians.

I didn't said to hang rapist. I just pointed out the no of MLA's who have such charge against them. But minimum punishment should be life imprisonment with hard working, and also death punishment for special case. We need to change a lot in law to deal with this sh!t.

Our whole system is corrupt and this is because of politicians. Politicians thinks that they are above law. They use police as their pet dog. Police has not responsibility for public. If you are rich or have some political connection, you can **** the law. All IAS/PCS or any government department ,,, well do i need to describe them ?

Mate, pls tell me, what exactly is the definition of a Govt. in ur mind?? do u think people in the GOI have come from mars?? NO, we have elected them to rule us, if u are not liking there conduct than no one else but u are responsible for the mess, if u don't like what they are doing than there is a simple thing u can do - Don't re-elect them. But what will Violent protests do?? does it serve any purpose??NO, it will only ruin the image of the country which u & i love in front of the world who look upto India as the next emerging powerhouse. Pls understand Govt. is not an organisation of few people but a system of which 120 crore people are very much part of it, if u are not part of it than think again as to why u defend GOI's decisions when some member of other nationality accuses it of something.

As for Lokpal, no i m not afraid, but can u give a written guarantee that 10 people will not do what 800 people were doing in ur opinion.

For rape convict u are again asking for the same treatment which i questioned in my earlier post.

Don't take me wrong but this is the most easiest & most abused statement - "Our whole system is corrupt", as i said before, u r very much part of this SYSTEM & if u think that it has gone corrupt than i ask u have u ever done anything to change it even .000000000000001%?? Accusation is the easiest part while reform/change/correction is the most difficult one.

 

[cyphercide]

It is clear that the government is going easy on the army chief as it probably doesn't want to appear vindictive or inflame passions over the affair. Any other general faced with umpteen charges including corruption, bribery, tapping phones, abuse of office and authority and alleged role played in scams(Adarsh) would have faced harsher music than merely getting his security detail docked. Brajesh Mishra had a point when he dubbed VK Singh the worst COAS India ever had.

Not everyone who raises slogans against Congress is a saint. People should stop viewing his case solely through anti-government lenses.

 

[trinity]

Congress showing true colors.

Its only been few months that he has retired. The threat perception has already gone down ?

Dude its not just COngress.....Our entire political system has been hijacked by corrupt elements dont fool yourself. Its just two sides of the same coin. General Singh is fuking up the "money pot" for both parties. Have you forgotten Defence Minister Fernadez under BJP?

They are clearly doing this to malign the great general. How come you never hear no action against General Kapoor and his scandals involving T90's? You don;t hear a stinking peep from our govt and the media? He ordered sub standard tanks rights before he left office. Why did they even allow to push such a dal so fast. Nothing rarely goes fast in our weapons procurement. What about Adarsh housing scandal? This involves a range of military personnel. Wake up. You don;t even hear a peep about the Swiss banks and our money which is slowly being pushed to other banks quietly. Of course when it comes out you wont find out anything.

I really doubt the sincerity of some of you posters on this forum. Some of you Indians are blindly patriotic, dumb, or you truly see the BS going on. Some of you posters I particularly feel are working for the Govt of India to push disinformation in internet forums like this. I have never seen a govt so defensive about an anti corruption movement unless they are trying to protect vested interests. Think about it Kiran Bedi is an outstanding ex police official. None of us can malign her in anyway at all. Yet, she is proudly walking firm with Anna.

I have told you before Rape is becoming ridiculous in India and so is the trafficking of sex slaves. I pointed out how archaic the laws are. Nobody even acknowledged it. Instead, they toed an interesting media/govt line, how we have lower rapes than Western nations. When we want to compare we only focus on aspects that portray us in a positive light. At least ppl are getting pissed off. My grandparents and parents generation didn;t see the amount of rape crimes we see today. We blame pubs and clubs but we need to blame our society. The only effective way to deal with rape is death. Stop defending against the death penalty. Those arguements fall on deaf hears. Criminals dont care if they hurt or kill us so why should we. Our greatest leaders in INdian history used capital punishment, so should we.

 

[trinity]

NRI knows better??Really??
Well we can agree to disagree.

It is true to a degree. I certainly care very much for a motherland I was not born to. I want India to succeed and I want all the ppl to have a fair shot. We shouldn;t be aiming for parity with the rest but we should be aiming to be the BEST. The advantages I can clearly say we might have are resources, education, being able to mingle with many different ppl, access to tech, we are able to see a lot of different viewpoints and problems then formulate a better soultion if we are truly interested in doing so.

 

[trinity]

The problem is that common people don't understand how the laws in India are made, they think all the laws are solely made by the ruling party, which is not at all the case, for framing important laws which will have great effects across India, there are Parliamentary committees (standing committee) - on finance, on defence etc. who discuss the pros & cons of the law & comes to a conclusion only when majority of members are saying yes to it, now these committees consists of representatives from every party of the Parliament irrespective of if they form the ruling coalition or not, like standing committee of finance consists of former FM Mr. yashwant sinha who is the leader of BJP & many a times he has proposed amendments to a bill & if govt. finds it do need an amendment they agree to it, now this a tricky affair since opposition nearly oppose everything, so what final law we get is the best possible since opposition often thinks about common man.

Were this there are Parliamentary committees (standing committee) when they framed corruption laws? Where they when they allowed criminals to contests politics? I know how democracy works but the system is not perfect so we should try to create a better system unless we wish to fall into the same pitfalls like the West, do we?

 

[ILLUMINATO]

It is true to a degree. I certainly care very much for a motherland I was not born to. I want India to succeed and I want all the ppl to have a fair shot. We shouldn;t be aiming for parity with the rest but we should be aiming to be the BEST. The advantages I can clearly say we might have are resources, education, being able to mingle with many different ppl, access to tech, we are able to see a lot of different viewpoints and problems then formulate a better soultion if we are truly interested in doing so.

Aiming for "BEST"??shouldn't be aiming pairty.
What does that mean and regarding what ???Is that "we" inclusive of native Indians or exclusive of them.
You yourself have put question mark by putting "IF TRULY" you are interested.No doubt you may have better access to education and high tech ,you may mingle more with rest of the world ,but does that mean we need to outsource our R&D to you guys or formentation of our foreign policy should be outsourced to NRIs. No definitely not since we ourselves only are in position to judge better the outcome of our policies, drafts and bear their positive or negative outcomes .