Ex-chief of army, Gen VK Singh, no longer has security or bullet-proof car

[Hyperion]

It has precedence in our law, and I bet it's the same with you guys as well!

What law? It is an unwritten rule.

 

[arp2041]

Mate it's not an unwritten rule. It's the law.

sorry bro, din't got u?? AFAIK Indian constitution doesn't stop anyone be it civilian or military personnel to join politics, or am i missing something??

 

[Bang Galore]

Mate it's not an unwritten rule. It's the law.

The unwritten rule governs behaviour after retirement.

 

[Hyperion]

Before retirement, the law prohibits it. After retirement there is a mandatory wait period (if I'm not mistaken, 1 year) and then you can do whatever pleases you.

It's an unwritten rule, if you are talking about after retirement.

sorry bro, din't got u?? AFAIK Indian constitution doesn't stop anyone be it civilian or military personnel to join politics, or am i missing something??

 

[janon]

Mate it's not an unwritten rule. It's the law.

There is no law that says a RETIRED general cannot go into politics. Almost every US president had distinguished military careers before they joined politics.

However, in this particular case I have to agree that VKS has not exactly crowned himself in glory with his actions. He was more loudmouthed than any army chief, and was often seen as combative towards the government while in office - something that is deeply frowned upon in India. After retirement, he has chosen the most odious venues to vent his anger against the government, completely unbecoming of the stature of a former Indian army chief. Calling for the gheraoing of parliament, calling for a rather unclear "sampoorna kranthi", and this time, instigating a leaderless and unruly crowd in Delhi, for which the Delhi police had to register an FIR against him - these are actions that do not gel with what is expected of someone who had a long and distinguished career in the armed forces. It is unfortunate that he has to stoop to the level of encouraging the current directionless "protests" in Delhi, where the distinction between legitimate protest and unruly, targetless mob fury is being blurred.

Someone had to say it.

 

[Arav_Rana]

I don't want to say anything about General's security but I want to make another point - IMHO he has broken an unwritten rule of Indian Armed Forces which said that Generals don't do politics, especially when they are in uniform, but he is doing politics from a long time, even when he was holding the high office of COAS, be it taking the age issue to SC or the leak of the letter. I am sorry to say but he was preparing for a Political career after retirement & preparing the ground for that. Even one of our most powerful General - Sam Manekshaw, din't bother going into politics, when he could have easily risen up the ranks b'coz of his outstanding work in 1971, in fact when Indira Gandhi asked in a tense voice to the General that is he trying to topple her govt., he famously said that u don't poke nose in my job & i will not poke in urs, thats what is needed from a General. Mr. VK Singh should help make IA a potent force, thats the need of the hour.

Well.. or you can say that he is trying to bring some small change in this country. People who are famous and have skill should come forward to lead. I think more people from retired arms should join politics. Look at these politicians, 670+ mla have cases of rape and eve-teasing registered against them. Can we expect anything good from such people.

BTW in Maharastha 1 cop increment was stopped for 3 year. Have you seen this news ?

 

[Abingdonboy]

I don't want to say anything about General's security but I want to make another point - IMHO he has broken an unwritten rule of Indian Armed Forces which said that Generals don't do politics, especially when they are in uniform, but he is doing politics from a long time, even when he was holding the high office of COAS, be it taking the age issue to SC or the leak of the letter. I am sorry to say but he was preparing for a Political career after retirement & preparing the ground for that. Even one of our most powerful General - Sam Manekshaw, din't bother going into politics, when he could have easily risen up the ranks b'coz of his outstanding work in 1971, in fact when Indira Gandhi asked in a tense voice to the General that is he trying to topple her govt., he famously said that u don't poke nose in my job & i will not poke in urs, thats what is needed from a General. Mr. VK Singh should help make IA a potent force, thats the need of the hour.

I agree that when in uniform/office an IA man has 0 business in getting involved in politics and one has to note the IA has an incredibly apolitical history. Yes, it is clear VK Singh had set his sights on politics before retiring from the IA and his actions before retiring were wholly unacceptable- a fact most in the IA 100% accept. Having said that there is no explicit rule about what you are allowed to do after retiring wrt politics- there are explicit rules set by the MoD wrt retiring military personal being barred from being employed by and defence companies in any manner for a certain period after leaving military service though.


In the past it has been down to the integrity of the retiring COAS that they have stuck to the code within the Indian military given politics a wide berth. Having said that, going be the law of averages, there is always going to be 1 exception to the rule. VK Singh is the exception that proves the rule. 1 in 27 COAS going down this route is not a bad strike rate!


The discussion whether it is right for retired military personal, especially the very highest brass, entering into politics is for another day. In the West (especially in the US) it is a pretty common sight for military personal to peruse such activities.

It has precedence in our law, and I bet it's the same with you guys as well!

In Pakistan or Turkey?

 

[Hyperion]

In Pakistan or Turkey?

Mate, in Pakistan!

 

[Abingdonboy]

Mate, in Pakistan!

Sir, surely this is only on paper? By all accounts the PA runs the civil govt!

There is no law that says a RETIRED general cannot go into politics. Almost every US president had distinguished military careers before they joined politics.

However, in this particular case I have to agree that VKS has not exactly crowned himself in glory with his actions. He was more loudmouthed than any army chief, and was often seen as combative towards the government while in office - something that is deeply frowned upon in India. After retirement, he has chosen the most odious venues to vent his anger against the government, completely unbecoming of the stature of a former Indian army chief. Calling for the gheraoing of parliament, calling for a rather unclear "sampoorna kranthi", and this time, instigating a leaderless and unruly crowd in Delhi, for which the Delhi police had to register an FIR against him - these are actions that do not gel with what is expected of someone who had a long and distinguished career in the armed forces. It is unfortunate that he has to stoop to the level of encouraging the current directionless "protests" in Delhi, where the distinction between legitimate protest and unruly, targetless mob fury is being blurred.

Someone had to say it.

And for his actions he has been exiled by the IA. In a recent annual IA event that sees all living former IA COAS in attendence- VK Singh was not even invited! VK Singh has shown his true colours post-retirement and this has left a very bad taste in the IA's mouth.

 

[Hyperion]

Sir, surely this is only on paper? By all accounts the PA runs the civil govt!

Well, yes it kind of used to, not any more. MI/ISI have been reigned in, and the domestic cells shut down. Whatever you see now is purely momentum, which will eventually come to an end.

 

[arp2041]

I agree that when in uniform/office an IA man has 0 business in getting involved in politics and one has to note the IA has an incredibly apolitical history. Yes, it is clear VK Singh had set his sights on politics before retiring from the IA and his actions before retiring were wholly unacceptable- a fact most in the IA 100% accept. Having said that there is no explicit rule about what you are allowed to do after retiring wrt politics- there are explicit rules set by the MoD wrt retiring military personal being barred from being employed by and defence companies in any manner for a certain period after leaving military service though.


In the past it has been down to the integrity of the retiring COAS that they have stuck to the code within the Indian military given politics a wide berth. Having said that, going be the law of averages, there is always going to be 1 exception to the rule. VK Singh is the exception that proves the rule. 1 in 27 COAS going down this route is not a bad strike rate!


The discussion whether it is right for retired military personal, especially the very highest brass, entering into politics is for another day. In the West (especially in the US) it is a pretty common sight for military personal to peruse such activities.

I have NO problem him going down the Political route, but how he achieved it, 3 cases i want to highlight:

1. Disclosing of corruption in IA - he should have told this to higher political authority rather than telling it to media, that too after nearly 2 years & just before his date of retirement. I am sure if he had told the PM about it, he must have done something about that.

2. Age Issue - SC is the highest court in the country, judges know that there decision set a precedence across India so they have to be right almost every time, by giving the decision in Gen. VK singh's favor they would have never set a bad precedence when every succeeding COAS is suing the democratically elected govt. of India. He knew this from the very beginning but he made the case a MEDIA affair.

3. Letter Leak - three people knew about the letter - PM, RM & Him, now u can't expect the former 2 to leak the letter & make a mockery of there own Govt. nothing to say more.

Now, he was a serving COAS, he has to set example for his army which is already facing critical shortages, while he may be worrying about his career post retirement.

+ What he is doing post retirement - surround the Parliament, revolution & what not, these things are not expected from a man of his stature.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I have NO problem him going down the Political route, but how he achieved it, 3 cases i want to highlight:

1. Disclosing of corruption in IA - he should have told this to higher political authority rather than telling it to media, that too after nearly 2 years & just before his date of retirement. I am sure if he had told the PM about it, he must have done something about that.

2. Age Issue - SC is the highest court in the country, judges know that there decision set a precedence across India so they have to be right almost every time, by giving the decision in Gen. VK singh's favor they would have never set a bad precedence when every succeeding COAS is suing the democratically elected govt. of India. He knew this from the very beginning but he made the case a MEDIA affair.

3. Letter Leak - three people knew about the letter - PM, RM & Him, now u can't expect the former 2 to leak the letter & make a mockery of there own Govt. nothing to say more.

Now, he was a serving COAS, he has to set example for his army which is already facing critical shortages, while he may be worrying about his career post retirement.

+ What he is doing post retirement - surround the Parliament, revolution & what not, these things are not expected from a man of his stature.

Sir, I agree with you- my previous post was not intended to convey anything to the contray but I did try and balance my post.

 

[ILLUMINATO]

I don't want to say anything about General's security but I want to make another point - IMHO he has broken an unwritten rule of Indian Armed Forces which said that Generals don't do politics, especially when they are in uniform, but he is doing politics from a long time, even when he was holding the high office of COAS, be it taking the age issue to SC or the leak of the letter. I am sorry to say but he was preparing for a Political career after retirement & preparing the ground for that. Even one of our most powerful General - Sam Manekshaw, din't bother going into politics, when he could have easily risen up the ranks b'coz of his outstanding work in 1971, in fact when Indira Gandhi asked in a tense voice to the General that is he trying to topple her govt., he famously said that u don't poke nose in my job & i will not poke in urs, thats what is needed from a General. Mr. VK Singh should help make IA a potent force, thats the need of the hour.

I advice you not to be so critical of true son of our own soil.In our country from Bureaucrats to rapist can get elected as our representative but if a darn honest son of mother India wants to cleanse the rotten system from inside out then few guys say that he has disregard for some unwritten conventional code. So much partiaity why ???
Even mighty USA which is flag bearer of Democracy doesn't subscribe to this bias , right from the era of George Washington to Bush has fielded as many as 32 Presidents with different military backgrounds till date.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I advice you not to be so critical of true son of soil.In our country from Bureaucrats to rapist can get elected but if a die honest son of mother India wants to cleanse the rotten system from inside out then few guys says that he has disregard for some unwritten conventional code. So much partiaity why ???
Even mighty USA which is flag bearer of Democracy doesn't subscribe to this bias , right from the era of George Washington to Bush has fielded as many as 32 President with military backgrounds till date.

Yes, but the way he went about his goals is unacceptable and the fact he already begun this political enevour whilst still in service is a HUGE no-no. As the head of the IA he should have known better than to do what he did.

 

[janon]

I advice you not to be so critical of true son of soil.In our country from Bureaucrats to rapist can get elected but if a die honest son of mother India wants to cleanse the rotten system from inside out then few guys says that he has disregard for some unwritten conventional code. So much partiaity why ???
Even mighty USA which is flag bearer of Democracy doesn't subscribe to this bias , right from the era of George Washington to Bush has fielded as many as 32 President with military backgrounds till date.

All of them took the proper route after retirement to join politics. All of them (except George Washington) were ELECTED in the presidential election. None of them stood outside the US senate and called for its dissolution. None of them called for the gheraoing of the house of representatives. None of them instigated unruly crowds in Washington, DC. They played by the system, and did not call for the overturning of the system (his ridiculous "sampoorna kranthi").

Before retirement, none of them made a media show of their careers. None of them criticized the government while in service. The most recent US army guy to criticize the govt while in office (gen mcchrystal) was quickly shown the door.

If this "son of the soil" or "son of mother india" wants to cleanse the system, let him get elected INTO parliament, rather than trying to gherao it.