European Roma descended from India

[Dushmann]

It's more then a belief, trust me....

I guess stealing and conning is normal thing for them. are they also involved in serious crimes too?

 

[Audio]

I guess stealing and conning is normal thing for them. are they also involved in serious crimes too?

No, not really, half legal metal scrapyards that accept stolen bronze statues would be the farthest. Some are really rich on that account. Like villa's, tuned Ferraris etc....
They have a sort of reputation going that if you do business with one, he will always try to somehow get the better end out of it as opposed to equal aned try to con you in any way possible.

^^
friend of mine, he inherited a scrapyard. he is nicer then the above description, but that could only be the case because i know him from elementary school and have not done any business with him. He's an ok guy, has loads of stories though, how he conned people when buying metal. As in they weighed "by the eye" and he convinced the seller that it's only 2 tons when it was 4, for example.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

majority of them are thieves and prostitutes.....they learn these skills before even becoming teenagers

i do kinda feel sorry for them; i used to see them all over in Istanbul --mostly beggars though some did menial tasks or played music outside in order to try to get sympathy money

Gypsies migrated to Europe when Islamic Invasions began, Go through the history.

and it's Islamic countries like Turkey that have been the most accomodating to them while their French and Italian "saviors" (according to your logic) treat them like absolute dirt -- worse than street dogs

 

[Dushmann]

majority of them are thieves and prostitutes.....they learn these skills before even becoming teenagers

prostitutes, really? is that just stereotyping or there is some truth to that? from what I read, they have strict moral codes within their community about cleanliness of body, fidelity, and it is must for a girl to be virgin till marriage.

and it's Islamic countries like Turkey that have been the most accomodating to them while their French and Italian "saviors" (according to your logic) treat them like absolute dirt -- worse than street dogs

yes, their descrimination and failure to integrate exposes limitations of European social structure. but I think their condition is not as bad in American countries (at least it was not mentioned in the articles that I read). do u have any link suggesting their condition is any better in Egypt and other Islamic countries? I didn't read anything like that.

 

[KingMamba]

In my current Psychology course there is a Roma girl, she claims they represent their own ethnicity and have no connection to anyone on this planet. They are roamers of sort, and then she shot down my request that she read my palm.

 

[Audio]

prostitutes, really? is that just stereotyping or there is some truth to that? from what I read, they have strict moral codes within their community about cleanliness of body, fidelity, and it is must for a girl to be virgin till marriage.

yes, their descrimination and failure to integrate exposes limitations of European social structure. but I think their condition is not as bad in American countries (at least it was not mentioned in the articles that I read). do u have any link suggesting their condition is any better in Egypt and other Islamic countries? I didn't read anything like that.

Funniest post i read in a while....

Cleanliness: from person to person differently, in generally pretty bad, their "villages" stink, some are wanderer type, camping in the woods, the rich minority has a pretty basic vision of personal hygiene, often tons of deodorant is better then a shower though....
Fidelity: the punishment is a severe beating, men cheat always
virgin till marriage: they marry as 13, 14, 15

They dont want to integrate properly, keeping old habits of sticking together in slum villages, theft, extortion (protection money from bars) is a common proffession....
Education is pretty much nonexistant.....girls have 5 children by the time they are 22, 23......

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

In my current Psychology course there is a Roma girl, she claims they represent their own ethnicity and have no connection to anyone on this planet. They are roamers of sort, and then she shot down my request that she read my palm.

Yes, That's what even i have heard. Many of them don't like to be associated with any country though many others are proud of their Indian ancestry.

 

[Random Boy]

the study compares on ydna H1a male line and tracks roma as domba but autosomally they are Close to Kashmiri Pandits and Punjabi. Kashmiri Pandits are brahmins. ydna is only very small part of genes. it is the fathers fathers fathers line. autosomal is whole Genome. Romas are genetically closest to Kashmiri Pandits and Punjabi. their ydna is H1a not surprising it Clusters with Dalits since High Castes have most of the time R1a but not all. There is even H1a a Little bit in Iran. They are classified as Indo-Afghan Race like Sikhs and Punjabis. Also they look like Northwest Indians like Punjabis not like Tamils etc. I think caste is just the occupation not race. The ones who do dirty Jobs are low castes. It shouldnt be determined by birth.

Romas are not prostitutes they arrange marriages even, i cant post links or i would. For them it is important that the woman is obedient and clean and virgin.

Also they are not nomads, most of them were settled according to the earliest Ottoman tax Registers only very few were itinerant. they had their traditional occupations like blacksmiths, musicians, shoemakers etc. they were not criminals.

 

[Random Boy]

and it's Islamic countries like Turkey that have been the most accomodating to them while their French and Italian "saviors" (according to your logic) treat them like absolute dirt -- worse than street dogs

turks were not friendly to them. Romas were the only People differentiated by their ethnicity and not Religion like all others. also turks always had a Preference for light Skin and White People. thats why bosniaks, albanians made it as Sultan wifes, and important figures. turks wanted to whitewash themselfes. but Romas were better treated then in europe eventhough discriminated. Romas are not prostitutes for them virginity is important.

 

[Random Boy]

Funniest post i read in a while....

Cleanliness: from person to person differently, in generally pretty bad, their "villages" stink, some are wanderer type, camping in the woods, the rich minority has a pretty basic vision of personal hygiene, often tons of deodorant is better then a shower though....
Fidelity: the punishment is a severe beating, men cheat always
virgin till marriage: they marry as 13, 14, 15

They dont want to integrate properly, keeping old habits of sticking together in slum villages, theft, extortion (protection money from bars) is a common proffession....
Education is pretty much nonexistant.....girls have 5 children by the time they are 22, 23......

they marry as Teenagers but their husbands are Teenagers too or Young man. some marry with 17 or 18 as well, only very few marry as 13 more common is 16/17. and that they are generally prostitutes is wrong. someone said "they are prostitutes when they are Born". thats offensive and wrong. some commit crimes, every Group is overly represented by some crimes for Romas it is theft and fraud basically, i dont know if begging Counts as crime, in some countries maybe only. europeans are represented by corruption, ethnic cleansing and genocide in their history. also by pedophilia (Christian priets) etc.

 

[Random Boy]

In my current Psychology course there is a Roma girl, she claims they represent their own ethnicity and have no connection to anyone on this planet. They are roamers of sort, and then she shot down my request that she read my palm.

some Romas lack the proper knowledge or affection but many others associate with india. if i could i would post Videos and links of roma who travell india to find their roots, or Romas wo perform pseudo-asian Songs, or Indians invited on roma Radio. im a roma and i feel related to Indians.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I had read plenty of articles suggesting that they were from the Rajastan area(something that this study seems to back up). However dalits? Odd, because the article goes on to suggest that were soldiers (of fortune?) Also that they fled Islam? Why, if they were dalits? Raises some questions.

Dalits is a bit of a poser, because the theories seem to suggest that they were the artists, musicians and dancers, who were the main captured baggage and slave trains of the Muslim invaders of the period. The biggest contingent are reported to have been those enslaved by Timur. They hardly fled Islam, they travelled as slaves in the slave trains. To some extent, the lowly status of these professional street and country musicians (not the court variety) is reflected in the 'dalit' catchphrase; the authors probably have no clue about the distinctions between 'dalits' and others, and between 'dalits' themselves.

You are probably also aware that large numbers of Indians were professional soldiers in the armies of rulers in the Khorasan area, and served as independent contingents, reporting to their own commanders, under the overall command of a trusted man of the sultan. These soldiers may have been a source of the wandering tribes, who are reputed to have finally wound up in Egypt.

Linguistically, the language itself is immediately recognisable;

ek duj trin star panj sov ifta ocht inja des,

for instance. going on to bis and sel. I remember picking up in Hungary a CD of gypsy tunes by a group named Kali Jag (pronounced Kali Yag), and asked the meaning of the name, to be shocked to be told that it meant Black Fire. There is an Indian diplomat who speaks Romani fluently, and is closely linked with them, and their efforts at preserving themselves in the middle of a very hostile Europe. When a Roma says, 'O gelo', 'he/she went', a Bengali has this very eery feeling, as you will understand.

I could go on until the cows come home.

 

[Icewolf]

Whenever I met Roma's I always thought they were very rude people kind of like Italian mafias of Chicago...

 

[Joe Shearer]

Which HINDU Kingdoms were in current day Pakistan 1400 years back?

All of them, in the years 700 - 800 AD.

Again the gypsies themselves said they had evidence of spome kind of facial features with Indians in photo of only 100 years OLD. now tell me which Hindu Kingdoms were there in current day Pakistan?

A gypsy spokesman said that they had photographic records of Roma having facial features like Indians and having dress forms similar to Indian dress forms as late as a hundred years ago, in Europe.

What Hindu kingdoms are needed to have been in current day Pakistan for that statement to be true?

May be, May have been phrases suggest NOTHING concerte but just guessing and guesses are not evidence neither proofs.

First, the language. Linguists have traced it to a stage earlier than Middle Indic languages, but later than the earliest variants of Prakrit, therefore, not earlier than the first millennium AD, around 1000 to 1100 AD. At this stage, the whole of Afghanistan was just converted from Hindu and Buddhist to Islam, and the Punjab and the Indus basin were in a process of conversion.

Second, historical events. The historical events which caused mass movements were the enslavements of the early invaders, Mahmud of Ghazni and Muhammad of Ghor, and also of Timur, in 1398. The very large numbers shipped out as slaves readily account for the numbers of gypsies in subsequent centuries. Linguistic analysis further shows a protracted period of stay in the 14th and 15th centuries in Anatolia, before they reached Egypt in the 16th century.

It is not clear what concrete evidence is wanted. Birth certificates? Sales certificates? Autobiographies? We are talking about slaves here.

This suggests something else.

If Gypsis have anything common with current day Hindus in India, thats only their witchcraft, and magic culture nothing else.

The passage above is very difficult to understand. The passage quoted says that there were Indian facial features and styles of dress until 100 years ago. That does not point to something linked to current day Hindus. Today's gypsies in Hungary could be Kapoors or Khannas without anyone raising an eyebrow. Their 'Indian' clothing refers to head scarves - chador - and to flowing gowns and dresses, like Banjarin.

What is the difficulty here?

 

[Random Boy]

Romas look like Hindus often eventhough some look White and can be pale and blonde etc. but lots of Romas look Brown/hindu. the core of "black gypsies" from eastern europe Looks hindu but they intermingled with populations among they dwell and going westwards and up North into europe you will find many more White looking roma. culturally they are similar too. Romas native Religion is hinduism. i Support hindutva and my mum is Brown but my dad is lighter skinned more european, he is only 1/4 roma and Looks southeastern european while my mum is 7/8 roma and Looks very roma.