Eurofighter can step in if talks with Rafale fails: UK

[Abingdonboy]

IF INDIAN CAN BUY NOR FIGHTER JETS OTHER THAN MMRCA . WON'T YOU LIKE YO HAVE EF ?

No, not really. It was designed as an outright Air supremacy fighter for which the IAF has no need with their MKIs fleet. The moves to incorporate more A2G capabilities are piecemeal in nature and being funded by the respective partner nations (mostly the UK) on a need basis, the majority of the proposed future features of the EFT will never been operationalised because no one will pay for it. If India does want certain features it will have to fund them itself- do I have to explain why this is not an attractive deal for India? Then there is the Consortium experiment that has well and truly failed with the EFT- all the different interests and policies of the respective AFs and member nations has hampered the EFT's development in almost every way conceivable.


India has done well to avoid being dragged into the mess that is the EFT Consortium.

And all u mentioned about A2G etc will.be done before we get the delivery of etf

So they say....

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Well the life cycle costs go without saying-this is how the Rafale was selected as the L1 bidder in the first place against the EFT.

Each passing week seems to bring news that is increasingly painting the picture that the EFT is a Hangar Queen- cracks found in the tails of the EFT fleet, Germany grounds its fleet, Germany only has 5 or so EFTs operational at any one time, the Spanish AF only have 5% of their EFT fleet operational right now etc etc

yes I didnt miss those news either.. its a very complex platform and just to be pro Euro three countries decides to make parts of it . intentions were noble but didnt work,

I wonder how the Saudi Typhoons are fairing. that might clarify or confirm the status.

 

[Parul]

@Abingdonboy I'm familer with the cost escalation part and how Indian Bureaucracy works in India. I gonna get that report soon, and would discuss this in chit-chat thread. Is thread they, bakiya nay magar pey Jana.

 

[Abingdonboy]

yes I didnt miss those news either.. its a very complex platform and just to be pro Euro three countries decides to make parts of it . intentions were noble but didnt work,

Indeed, it seems to have been a project to provide jobs and satisfy electorates rather than properly utilise resources.

I wonder how the Saudi Typhoons are fairing. that might clarify or confirm the status.

You don't seem to hear much about the Saudi experience of operating these machines but it's not like they are a high tempo military, they have lots of fancy equipment but they seem content with having it look good and not do much.

 

[SpArK]

With love from Thailand.

 

[Abingdonboy]

With love from Thailand.

Can't say the Gripen does much for me from an Indian perspective, not with the LCA MK.2 in the works......

 

[SpArK]

Can't say the Gripen does much for me from an Indian perspective, not with the LCA MK.2 in the works......

What works?

It wont be around soon.

Plugging the gap is the key for the process along with some technological knowhows...

If not Rafale, its got to be Gripenji or hornetji

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Can't say the Gripen does much for me from an Indian perspective, not with the LCA MK.2 in the works......

secondly when you grade 2 European twin engine top runners as "Medium" multirole fighters then anything in the class of Gripen/ F-16 will be light category.

 

[Abingdonboy]

What works?

It wont be around soon.

Plugging the gap is the key for the process along with some technological knowhows...

If not Rafale, its got to be Gripenji or hornetji

the LCA Mk.2 will be ready for service by 2020, if India signs a deal for the Gripen it will be in 2 years time (look how long it has taken to get to this stage with Dassualt) and then add another 36 months for deliveries of the first batch of Gripens- it will be delivered around the same time as the LCA MK.2, what have you gained?

No gap would have been plugged whatsoever, more than likely the Gripen would kill the LCA Mk.2 and LCA program as a whole and that is far more damaging for the Indian defence industry long term.


As for the Hornet, I can't see it. India is far too wary of being overly dependant on the US and the fact it hasn't even signed agreements like CISMOA which pertains to communications indicates this. No way would the Indian Government and military like to have such offensive platforms of American origin.

 

[Hareeshu IA MBT]

What works?

It wont be around soon.

Plugging the gap is the key for the process along with some technological knowhows...

If not Rafale, its got to be Gripenji or hornetji

Why do u even want to buy gripen when we have 3 prototype for future . We won't gain again anything special with sweeds unless we Co develop AMCA . As the know lca 1/2 will be much cheaper than Grip NG which is around 112 million fly away cost . With tech transfer the cost will increase to many folds with life run cost. Its like have two gripen for one rafale . Then think about maintenance . So over all we came to a conclusion to go for rafale . So swedners must Co develop AMCA and gain the cost effective better fighter and sell them to other countries with low price tag ... RATHER THAN TRYING TO KILL TEJAS PROGRAM ( its only rival in light weight category) Why not let's bring PVT companies to the table and select partner for AMCA and start th project by the mid 2015 . Am sure we will come up with 5 th gen fighter for the both INDIA and partnering country or countries.

 

[Hareeshu IA MBT]

Swedners can get quite a good stuff from us and Europe . If they don't want to join no problem join Japan or Brazil or south Africa

 

[SpArK]

the LCA Mk.2 will be ready for service by 2020, if India signs a deal for the Gripen it will be in 2 years time (look how long it has taken to get to this stage with Dassualt) and then add another 36 months for deliveries of the first batch of Gripens- it will be delivered around the same time as the LCA MK.2, what have you gained?

No gap would have been plugged whatsoever, more than likely the Gripen would kill the LCA Mk.2 and LCA program as a whole and that is far more damaging for the Indian defence industry long term.
.

The killing of LCA by Gripen is a wasted argument , the real fact is that it will compliment each other.

Just because it looks same and is of same weight category doesnt make it a project killer.... will adding a few extra pounds to it and making it look like Rafale revive it chances???

Infact both jets would have same engine manufacturing facilities and many commonalities which would be good for us to further LCA-MK2 orders. Gripen would be of same numbers as per the deal and all further orders would be LCA.

American argument is no longer valid since the day we signed for GE-414, the most critical part of MK-2

 

[Abingdonboy]

The killing of LCA by Gripen is a wasted argument , the real fact is that it will compliment each other.

Just because it looks same and is of same weight category doesnt make it a project killer.... will adding a few extra pounds to it and making it look like Rafale revive it chances???

Infact both jets would have same engine manufacturing facilities and many commonalities which would be good for us to further LCA-MK2 orders. Gripen would be of same numbers as per the deal and all further orders would be LCA.

I don't see how it isn't a project killer, the LCA (Mk.2 specifically) and Gripen are effectively substitute for one another and their capabilities are pretty much identical. It wouldn't make much fiscal or operational sense for an AF to operate two different types of bird filling the same role/capability spectrum. It would be a duplication of services to say the least.

I don't see how they would compliment one another, this is true of the LCA and Rafale or Rafale and MKI but not two single engined light fighters.

 

[SpArK]

I don't see how it isn't a project killer, the LCA (Mk.2 specifically) and Gripen are effectively substitute for one another and their capabilities are pretty much identical. It wouldn't make much fiscal or operational sense for an AF to operate two different types of bird filling the same role/capability spectrum. It would be a duplication of services to say the least.

I don't see how they would compliment one another, this is true of the LCA and Rafale or Rafale and MKI but not two single engined light fighters.

So its not multiRole. It cantbe made multirole? Brazilians have mistaken it as multirole.

What is the similar role they are expected to do?

 

[Abingdonboy]

So its not multiRole. It cantbe made multirole? Brazilians have mistaken it as multirole.

What is the similar role they are expected to do?

Both the LCA Mk.2 and the Gripen are light weight, single-engined multirole fighter- that is issue.

Brazil is a different matter, for them the Gripen was the right choice but they don't have the same threat perception as India nor are they nurturing their own single engined fighter plane project.