Erdogan says referendum for death penalty is possible

[Muhammed45]

Kurds must be recognized as an independent nation

Oh hey, that's an Israeli desire. Never gonna happen at least before the destruction of Israel.
And no one is treating Kurds as second class citizens in Iran. They are respected and beloved by Iranians except the terrorists of PKK and other separatists.

 

[schoolboy]

What a patronizing attitude. Really. What next. Negroes in America are too thick so they should not get to vote? And if not are you suggesting the hoodgroids in Bronx are smart enough to vote but not the average Turkish person? And who is qualified to judge? You, me or some elitest Turkish plutocracy?

If common man or woman can decide in USA so can others around the world. And to say otherwise madam, is condescention as your blowing smoke into the faces of 9 million voters of AKP - you are arrogating their will and acting higher then them. Not nice, not nice at all.

I hate to say it but the fact that her points appear condescending do not detract from their accuracy.

It's easy to adopt the framework of a democracy and the superficial organs - elections, courts, police, etc. It's a lot harder to adopt a culture of democracy and checks and balances.

In immature democracies holders of political power genuinely do not believe they can be kept in check and will cheerfully go about their day confident of prevailing in the end against all domestic opposition on no legitimate basis other than their election numbers. In America not only is getting those numbers a lot tougher due to an intricate system of elections (actually Trump's win is not mob rule since he lost the popular vote) but the institutions of government - the courts and congress are quite powerful in their own right, have blocked over-zealous presidents in the past and will do so again. Federal employees honestly believe this legitimacy and we saw that happen when CBP stopped enforcing Trump's travel ban minutes after that Seattle judge blocked it. Obama lost over 50% of his legal cases in the Supreme Court. This is a meaningful separation of power and while it may not achieve progress it can limit maniacs.

Britain is less sophisticated in this respect - not only is the election system simplistic, the constitutional norm is that parliament is sovereign (not the people) and British courts are very reluctant to constrain HM government.

Countries like India are behind on this score - ever so often we have leaders who believe they are above the law, immune from checks and balances - and had it not been for an equally zealous judiciary who knows what strife we would have seen.

I suspect it's worse in the middle-east. Do you honestly believe that a head of state of any of the arab countries really believes he is below the law? That some judge somewhere will have the audacity to block his actions? That some legislator might hod him accountable? Erdogan is the same - he's systematically dismantling any institution in Turkey that night oppose him.

You know what Churchill said, I am sure - "democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." We need to keep that in mind. Again you did not give me a alternative in Turkey?

I would refrain from quoting Churchill. If anything he embodied the worst excesses that a system with no checks and balances could devolve into - with his genocide in Bengal and craze for colonial legacy at the cost of so much suffering. Yet he got away with it and is treated as some kind of hero. In modern America Nixon lost his job and had to accept a presidential pardon in advance - all because of a cover-up and Clinton was humiliated by having to testify before a jury because he lied. Right now the Attorney General faces the real prospect of losing his job because he lied about an inconsequential meeting with the Russian ambassador. Tomorrow if enough congressmen get annoyed with Trump he could just as easily be impeached.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You can cry all you want. Fact is Erdogan has massive support in Turkey. therefore nothing you say or I say is going to make differance. It's like pissing in the headwind. And you know what that implies. I saw a documantary of a Pakistan van driver who drove from UK to Pakistan in early 1990s. I swear Turkey looks like a third World piss poor, disorganized pile of crap. Look at it now. The meteoric rise of Turkey has come about since AKP took over. The whole country has been rebuilt in decade and half. amazing stuff. That is something to bear in mind.

And I am out of here before Blondie starts cussing and swearing !

 

[Zulkarneyn]

I saw a documantary of a Pakistan van driver who drove from UK to Pakistan in early 1990s. I swear Turkey looks like a third World piss poor, disorganized pile of crap.

Can confirm, i've been to Turkey regularly during 90s and 00s.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Can confirm, i've been to Turkey regularly during 90s and 00s.

If I am not mistaken the Turkish Lira used to be like 1,000,000,000 exchange rate. look at it now. On a separate thought, now that I keep look out for Kemalists, I can see they hate Erdogan like as if he is the devil. In addition the patronizing attitude they display is amazing. They really think they are 'the chosen' people and that they are blessed with the virtue and talent to rule. And all rest of Turks are just goats and even if they are educated they are just educated goats. All in all very disturbing and condescending views.

 

[schoolboy]

If I am not mistaken the Turkish Lira used to be like 1,000,000,000 exchange rate. look at it now. .

That's because of re-denomination of the lira in 2005, not strengthening of currency.

Re-denominaton is done for convenience when inflation increases the value of everything to an extent keeping track of the units, tens, hundreds is impractical.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

If I am not mistaken the Turkish Lira used to be like 1,000,000,000 exchange rate. look at it now. On a separate now that I keep look out for Kemalists, I can see they hate Erdogan like as if he is the devil. In addition the patronizing attitude they display is amazing. They really think they are 'the chosen' people and that they are blessed with the virtue and talent to rule. And all rest of Turks are just goats and even if they are educated they are just educated goats. All in all very disturbing and condescending views.

The Ottoman civilization and prior to that the Seljuks, before that the Turkish Beyliks all across Asia and Europe predates their 70 years of disaster

That we value and bring back to life our roots and civilization stings them.

1071 we beat the Byzantines and entered Anatolia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manzikert
1453 we conquered Constantinople and ended the Roman Empire (in reality Ottomans are the true succesors of the East Roman Empire)

1916, after 600 years of power we decline and are attacked from all sides during the WW1. We beat the entire fleet of the Allies in Gallipoli (when Ottoman was called the sick man of Europe) but, ultimately, we were doomed to fail, because the Empire was crumbling.

1923 The Turkish Republic is established as the successor to the Ottoman Empire. The following decades we try to emulate the West. Laws are introduced that forbid the practice of Islam and Ottoman Lifestyle and culture. Once the greatest and most progressive civilization is considered incompatible with progressive states. Asslicking of the West and inferiority complex ensues. Ottomanism is considered savagery, thus dumping our ancestry and legacy is of prime object.

1960s 1970s 1980s 1990s Turkey is a third country dumphole, with no say on international arena, we beg for imf credits and rely on their genorisity, those we once beat and ruled over.

Ottomanism endures, despite of the new creed which considers Anatolians savages and we have a new class of white Turks who look down upon the working class Anatolians, those very dignified people who provide all the work with the sweat of their brows.

1990s Erdogan endures despite being imprisoned courted and denied politics. A man who comes from the bottom of society, who had to clean shoes to support his family as a child. Turks know his struggle and amass their support, we have grown tired of indecent decadent lying priviledged politicians who never cared about their people.
2000s despite all odds AKP win the election.
2010s Turkey rises up to its promise and is even modeled to all Muslim societies. We even give IMF credit and is the second most generous country in the world. People across the world is worried Turkey brings back their Empire.
2023- 100 years have passed since the end of the Ottoman Empire. - Perhaps a return...

 

[KediKesenFare3]

You can cry all you want. Fact is Erdogan has massive support in Turkey. therefore nothing you say or I say is going to make differance. It's like pissing in the headwind. And you know what that implies. I saw a documantary of a Pakistan van driver who drove from UK to Pakistan in early 1990s. I swear Turkey looks like a third World piss poor, disorganized pile of crap. Look at it now. The meteoric rise of Turkey has come about since AKP took over. The whole country has been rebuilt in decade and half. amazing stuff. That is something to bear in mind.

And I am out of here before Blondie starts cussing and swearing !

During the 90's cities like Istanbul were basically just sh*t holes. There was literally no difference between an Indian city today and Istanbul in the 90's.

I can prove it with pictures:

Newspapers compared Turkey with Rwanda:

Can't deny it, today Istanbul regained its dignity:

 

[Attila the Hun]

Istanbul was a fantastic city in the 90s, as was Izmir, and other Aegean cities.
Funny how no one mentions how shit Eastern Turkey is today......lol

 

[xenon54 out]

Istanbul was a fantastic city in the 90s, as was Izmir, and other Aegean cities.
Funny how no one mentions how shit Eastern Turkey is today......lol

We gotta be honest here, in 90s not only garbage was a problem in Istanbul but also water supply and smog from old coal furnitures in every house that cause a pollution comparable to what we are hearing from China today, dont forget the famous phrase ''mega village Istanbul'' back then, i remeber times when driven above Golden Horn you had to close car windows since it smelled like decomposition because of industry waste and sewage water, when Erdogan became mayor of Istanbul he improved the situation immensely which paved him the way to become prime minister so the support for him is not only emotional but also the fact that he indeed changed thing in the country.

 

[Selim I]

Istanbul was a fantastic city in the 90s, as was Izmir, and other Aegean cities.
Funny how no one mentions how shit Eastern Turkey is today......lol

I guess you've never been to Gaziantep, Urfa, Diyarbakir and other major eastern cities. You really are ignorant much aren't you?
Those cities are much more beautiful than the drunkard cities of aegean today. Only the aegean nature is beautiful. There's nothing more into it.

@Zulkarneyn can confirm. We both been to all aegean cities multiple times. And also eastern cities as i mentioned.

 

[Baybars Han]

I guess you've never been to Gaziantep, Urfa, Diyarbakir and other major eastern cities. You really are ignorant much aren't you?
Those cities are much more beautiful than the drunkard cities of aegean today. Only the aegean nature is beautiful. There's nothing more into it.

@Zulkarneyn can confirm. We both been to all aegean cities multiple times. And also eastern cities as i mentioned.

True there's alot of imams there. What kind of practices did you lot do as a group?

And there's something in common. There's a lot of a terrorist supporters in Diyarbakır which is why you like it.

Tanrı Türk'ü korusun. Kudurun pis köpekler. Sizi çöllere surmemiz yakındır. Türkiye sadece Türklerindir.

 

[Attila the Hun]

We gotta be honest here, in 90s not only garbage was a problem in Istanbul but also water supply and smog from old coal furnitures in every house that cause a pollution comparable to what we are hearing from China today, dont forget the famous phrase ''mega village Istanbul'' back then, i remeber times when driven above Golden Horn you had to close car windows since it smelled like decomposition because of industry waste and sewage water, when Erdogan became mayor of Istanbul he improved the situation immensely which paved him the way to become prime minister so the support for him is not only emotional but also the fact that he indeed changed thing in the country.

Yeah, we were living in the dark ages before Erdogan came to power.

I guess you've never been to Gaziantep, Urfa, Diyarbakir and other major eastern cities. You really are ignorant much aren't you?
Those cities are much more beautiful than the drunkard cities of aegean today. Only the aegean nature is beautiful. There's nothing more into it.

@Zulkarneyn can confirm. We both been to all aegean cities multiple times. And also eastern cities as i mentioned.

You are comparing Diyarbakir to western Cities? Not only that, you think Diyarbakir is better than cities in western Turkiye? You're an idiot.
Not a single sane person from western Turkiye would ever want to live in shithole Diyarbakir. Yet, hordes of terrorists are coming to Izmir etc lol.
Apart from a few landmarks leftover by the SELJUKS, which is coming to a 1,000-years now. it's basically a desert in that part of the world.

True there's alot of imams there. What kind of practices did you lot do as a group?

And there's something in common. There's a lot of a terrorist supporters in Diyarbakır which is why you like it.

Tanrı Türk'ü korusun. Kudurun pis köpekler. Sizi çöllere surmemiz yakındır. Türkiye sadece Türklerindir.

View attachment 381800View attachment 381801

TTK ve Y

 

[Selim I]

America could get worse, but I don't think it'll get as bad as Turkey because it has a lot of powerful institutions and NGOs. Also, unlike Turkey, America has a very vibrant middle class, albeit the middle class has been targeted for many years and is nowhere near as influential as it used to be in the 1980s and 1990s.

Trump can't rule by decree like Erdogan. It simply cannot happen. Neither congress nor the courts would allow it to happen. They will always either block his decrees or force him to change the wording of his decrees so much that the decrees will end up being ineffective. That's the beauty of the political system in the US. There are way too many checks and balances, and each government branch has a great degree of power and autonomy.

You really cannot say the same about Turkey these days. You simply can't. In Turkey, Erdogan has gradually seized every branch of government.

And before Erdogan seized every branch of government the Kemalists had.

We have seen the times where Kemalists had seized every branch of Turkish government - and the country was a pure sh!thole.

And we are seeing now when Erdogan has seized every branch of Turkish government. It all looks much better. Not just to me, but any scientific article about Turkey's economy, energy, welfare shows immense growth.

Your problem with Erdogan is, that Turkey is not as weak as it's "supposed to be" or not a slave as it's "supposed to be", or a country that nobody ever cared about. Before in time, our PM's couldn't even book a meeting with your PM's in US or England, it would take them months to book a meeting - and when the meeting was booked, a clear clock-set was not even fixed, our PM had to wait all day before he got to speak with your PM for less than half an hour.
And of course you were all happy with that. Because the sole reason of western countries progress is by abusing the rest of the world, and the reason you can abuse is your military power.

"Kuwaitigirl" you are very well exposed of being a white woman with french surname, how can you be so shameless.

And besides, you're supporting YPG/PKK terrorists against Turkey in all post relating to this topic. You're really a disgusting terrorist-supporter.

 

[azzo]

True there's alot of imams there. What kind of practices did you lot do as a group?

And there's something in common. There's a lot of a terrorist supporters in Diyarbakır which is why you like it.

Tanrı Türk'ü korusun. Kudurun pis köpekler. Sizi çöllere surmemiz yakındır. Türkiye sadece Türklerindir.

View attachment 381800View attachment 381801

ataturk's his vision and principle (if we can call them that) didn't even survive the century.
One of the most forgettable figures in the 20th century IMO.