Erdogan says referendum for death penalty is possible

[Kuwaiti Girl]

Majority of Kurds support AKP...
ANd yes Tyranny of the Majority should be controlled, to let minority live decently. And populism is destroying that... But it's not only in Turkey, Europe does too and US too

The majority of Kurds used to support the AKP, but not anymore.

The AKP has shifted closer to the racist nationalist Turks (i.e. the MHP) since 2015 in order to garner enough local support to pass constitutional amendments and statutory changes. That's exactly why Erdogan re-started his war with the PKK. He did it in order to gain the support of the racist ultra-nationalists in Turkey.

According to recent opinion polls, the majority of Kurds in southeastern Turkey are against the constitutional referendum precisely because of the AKP's policy shifts.

Many democratically elected mayors in southeastern Turkey have been arbitrarily imprisoned over the last few months on false or dubious charges.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

1. The majority of Turks aren't educated or enlightened enough to appreciate or understand the real functions, responsibilities, duties and meaning of an electoral democracy.

What a patronizing attitude. Really. What next. Negroes in America are too thick so they should not get to vote? And if not are you suggesting the hoodgroids in Bronx are smart enough to vote but not the average Turkish person? And who is qualified to judge? You, me or some elitest Turkish plutocracy?

Bloody condescending to the 9 million odd who voted AKP.

@Zulkarneyn

 

[blondeturkish]

The truth is, the Turkish masses are enabling the autocratization of their own country. This is happening for a number of reasons:

1. The majority of Turks aren't educated or enlightened enough to appreciate or understand the real functions, responsibilities, duties and meaning of an electoral democracy. They mistakenly think that democracy should be mob rule, and that the majority should decide things for the minority. They haven't the faintest clue that an electoral democracy is supposed to prevent tyranny of the masses.

2. The majority of Turks, unfortunately, despise the Kurds so much that they don't mind giving more powers to their head of state in exchange for making sure that their government does everything in its power to prevent the Kurds from achieving self-rule. In other words, they don't mind living in a dictatorship if it means that the Kurds won't get their own autonomous region or independent state.

where would the kurds get their independent country from? care to elaborate

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

What a patronizing attitude. Really. What next. Negroes in America are too thick so they should not get to vote? And if not are you suggesting the hoodgroids in Bronx are smart enough to vote but not the average Turkish person? And who is qualified to judge? You, me or some elitest Turkish plutocracy?

Bloody condescending to the 9 million odd who voted AKP.

@Zulkarneyn

It's not really condescending.

Most voters around the world are largely the same. That's why civil societies (e.g. NGOs and institutions) are important. If a country loses its NGOs and institutions, which is exactly what's occurring in Turkey, then it will eventually slide into authoritarianism, which is exactly what occurred in Russia.

Electoral democracies always needed these ingredients to work properly.

 

[HannibalBarca]

The majority of Kurds used to support the AKP, but not anymore.

The AKP has shifted closer to the racist nationalist Turks (i.e. the MHP) since 2015 in order to garner enough local support to pass constitutional amendments and statutory changes. That's exactly why Erdogan re-started his war with the PKK. He did it in order to gain the support of the racist ultra-nationalists in Turkey.

According to recent opinion polls, the majority of Kurds in southeastern Turkey are against the constitutional referendum precisely because of the AKP's policy shifts.

Many democratically elected mayors in southeastern Turkey have been arbitrarily imprisoned over the last few months on false or dubious charges.

TBH Erdogan referendum will pass... The presidency will be changed and it's a good thing. Whatever it's good or not, without this Turkey will always be into unstable Time. What Erdogan want to do is already used by a majority of Country in Europe, so... .
As for Kurds, the majority do not embrace the "split/autonomy ideology" of the minority among them ( ypg and such).
But yes , things should be changed for kurds, more equality and chance for work and such. The problem , it's that they are in the poorest part of Turkey, so ofc discontent arise...

 

[blondeturkish]

i repeat where would the kurds get their independent country from? if you have the balls say.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

TBH Erdogan referendum will pass... The presidency will be changed and it's a good thing. Whatever it's good or not, without this Turkey will always be into unstable Time. What Erdogan want to do is already used by a majority of Country in Europe, so... .
As for Kurds, the majority do not embrace the "split/autonomy ideology" of the minority among them ( ypg and such).
But yes , things should be changed for kurds, more equality and chance for work and such. The problem , it's that they are in the poorest part of Turkey, so ofc discontent arise...

Erdogan will effectively rule by decree. There's nothing that can block his executive orders.

He will basically destroy whatever's left of Turkey's checks and balances.

That's definitely not a good thing.

By the way, has it ever occurred to the Turks that rule by decree shouldn't be entrusted to a person like Erdogan? What if he ends up screwing them by issuing a decree to turn southeast Turkey into a Kurdish state? Who will stop him then? That's right, nobody would have the power to stop him because the entire Turkish state apparatus will be in his control lol.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

It's not really condescending.

It really is, condescending with extreme prejudice. This is not the thread for it but perhaps we can look at it in other thread. American democracy was bought out by big capital long time ago. You failed to answer who is fit to rule Turkey. Some plutocrats, the military with medals hanging off their chests or some other clique?

If common man or woman can decide in USA so can others around the world. And to say otherwise madam, is condescention as your blowing smoke into the faces of 9 million voters of AKP - you are arrogating their will and acting higher then them. Not nice, not nice at all.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Erdogan will effectively rule by decree. There's nothing that can block his executive orders.

He will basically destroy whatever's left of Turkey's checks and balances.

That's definitely not a good thing.

By the way, has it ever occurred to the Turks that rule by decree shouldn't be entrusted to a person like Erdogan? What if he ends up screwing them by issuing a decree to turn southeast Turkey into a Kurdish state? Who will stop him then? That's right, nobody would have the power to stop him because the entire Turkish state apparatus will be in his control lol.

Well the same happen with Trump Today...
Press labeled as enemy of the state
A decree Madman
Racism ...

Is US dead?
The Q is not if he gonna do it or not, it's, does Erdogan will rule with decree forever? The answer is no. Why? Simple , Turkey is not a dictatorship But a country of law and a democracy, yes those things are getting more under Erdogan grip, but still, it's not ENtirely.

As for the intellect of Turkish society, don't be afraid If they do not like somthing, they will rise... it's an educated country...
Erdogan do not like the Far right either.. he's just using them for today.. till he gets what he want...

As for the peace btw PKK and Turkey , do not forget that it's HIM who made it happen... and that's why he is, where he is today...

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

It really is, condescending with extreme prejudice. This is not the thread for it but perhaps we can look at it in other thread. American democracy was nought out by big capital long time ago. You failed to answer who is fit to rule the turkey. Some plutocrat, the military with medals hanging off their chests or some other clique?

If common man or woman can decide in USA so can others around the world. And to say otherwise madam, is condescention as your blowing smoke into the faces of 9 million voters of AKP - you are arrogating their will and acting higher then them. Not nice, not nice at all.

It's the same thing everywhere.

In all countries around the world, including in Kuwait, the masses will always vote for the biggest and best bullshitter.

The majority of voters the world over do not understand what an electoral democracy is all about.

That's why every country needs a civil society, i.e. a collection of NGOs and institutions that can protect and campaign for the rights of the citizens.

In Kuwait, most people would foolishly vote for the death penalty and autocracy as well, until it one day backfires badly on them.

It happened in Germany in the 30s and it sure as hell can happen again in any place around the world. If you entrust too much power into the hands of one person, then that person will eventually screw you. He may not screw his voters tomorrow, but he will at some point in the future.

Electoral democracies cannot work unless they protect the rights of the minorities. Tyranny of the majority can happen in any country, and the only way to prevent this from happening is by preserving the middle class and making sure the NGOs and institutions aren't compromised.

By the way, I personally prefer meritocracies to democracies, but that's for another time.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

What a patronizing attitude. Really. What next. Negroes in America are too thick so they should not get to vote? And if not are you suggesting the hoodgroids in Bronx are smart enough to vote but not the average Turkish person? And who is qualified to judge? You, me or some elitest Turkish plutocracy?

Bloody condescending to the 9 million odd who voted AKP.

@Zulkarneyn

Actually, AKP's popular vote was 23,681,926. But, you're right and don't try to debate with her. She is well-known from many other online boards like skyscrapercity or the former Iranian Defence Forum. And she is not an Arab or a half English and half "Balooch" female student from Kuwait. She is a Harvard educated, white woman from the US with a French surname. There was a member who shared her real life picture/FB profiles and blogs on this forum. It's totally ridiculous.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

Well the same happen with Trump Today...
Press labeled as enemy of the state
A decree Madman
Racism ...

Is US dead?
The Q is not if he gonna do it or not, it's, does Erdogan will rule with decree forever? The answer is no. Why? Simple , Turkey is not a dictatorship But a country of law and a democracy, yes those things are getting more under Erdogan grip, but still, it's not ENtirely.

As for the intellect of Turkish society, don't be afraid If they do not like somthing, they will rise... it's an educated country...
Erdogan do not like the Far right either.. he's just using them for today.. till he gets what he want...

As for the peace btw PKK and Turkey , do not forget that it's HIM who made it happen... and that's why he is, where he is today...

America could get worse, but I don't think it'll get as bad as Turkey because it has a lot of powerful institutions and NGOs. Also, unlike Turkey, America has a very vibrant middle class, albeit the middle class has been targeted for many years and is nowhere near as influential as it used to be in the 1980s and 1990s.

Trump can't rule by decree like Erdogan. It simply cannot happen. Neither congress nor the courts would allow it to happen. They will always either block his decrees or force him to change the wording of his decrees so much that the decrees will end up being ineffective. That's the beauty of the political system in the US. There are way too many checks and balances, and each government branch has a great degree of power and autonomy.

You really cannot say the same about Turkey these days. You simply can't. In Turkey, Erdogan has gradually seized every branch of government.

 

[HannibalBarca]

America could get worse, but I don't think it'll get as bad as Turkey because it has a lot of powerful institutions and NGOs. Also, unlike Turkey, America has a very vibrant middle class, albeit the middle class has been targeted for many years and is nowhere near as influential as it used to be in the 1980s and 1990s.

Trump can't rule by decree like Erdogan. It simply cannot happen. Neither congress nor the courts would allow it to happen. They will always either block his decrees or force him to change the wording of his decrees so much that the decrees will end up being ineffective. That's the beauty of the political system in the US. There are way too many checks and balances, and each government branch has a great degree of power and autonomy.

You really cannot say the same about Turkey these days. You simply can't. In Turkey, Erdogan has gradually seized every branch of government.

A state of Law work if the ppl of the state abide by it. The moment they do not anymore, The law is no more.

So We can give a view of Future Turkey , but it's only speculations. We will see.

 

[Muhammed45]

America could get worse, but I don't think it'll get as bad as Turkey because it has a lot of powerful institutions and NGOs. Also, unlike Turkey, America has a very vibrant middle class, albeit the middle class has been targeted for many years and is nowhere near as influential as it used to be in the 1980s and 1990s.

Trump can't rule by decree like Erdogan. It simply cannot happen. Neither congress nor the courts would allow it to happen. They will always either block his decrees or force him to change the wording of his decrees so much that the decrees will end up being ineffective. That's the beauty of the political system in the US. There are way too many checks and balances, and each government branch has a great degree of power and autonomy.

You really cannot say the same about Turkey these days. You simply can't. In Turkey, Erdogan has gradually seized every branch of government.

The girl in your Avatar, her hair shapes the map of Arab world. The map in black color, i have seen your critical quotes about Iran.
Am i right Kuwaiti girl?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

t's the same thing everywhere.

I know it's same everywhere. All the things you brought up are weaknesses of democracy. However they do not mean that we should not accept the democratic will. Every system will have negatives and positives. You know what Churchill said, I am sure - "democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." We need to keep that in mind. Again you did not give me a alternative in Turkey? Plutocracy, military with tanks or some other narrow clique?

She

Well Kedikesenfare whatever she is, let's not discrimminate. I don't care what her ethnic group is and I don't like being rude to females. Indeed if she is Harvard educated I am compelled even more to pit myself against her intellect. It's a form of mental masturbation to go against bright people and give them a thrashing. What is alternative here? Having swearing contest with Blondie?

And hey Kuwaiti girl ar you really Harvard product - which subject if you don't mind?