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Turkish Parliament urges Egypt not execute mass death penalty sentences

A better question would be has Turkey even ever had the relations with the Arab world it does today?
Ofcourse Turkey had relations, its not like Turkey didnt recognised Arab states, maybe not really warm relations but at least not hostile to anyone except of Syria which supported pkk back then.


Yes I can, Jordan, Lebanon, Tunisia, Morocco, Libya, Qatar, etc...
All small countrys with almost no relevance in world policy, on the other hand we have problems with the biggest Arab state Egypt and disagreements with the biggest economy in Arab world KSA.

I dont know about you but i wouldnt call this a successful FP if you ask me.

I say it again, we shouldnt meddle in ME and let them sort out their problems by themselves.
 
@xenon54

This is not your fault, Egypt and Saudi Arabia went after Turkey because Turkey didn't support the coup. Turkey didn't meddle in their affairs, meanwhile Saudi Arabia needs Turkey for the situation in Syria. So things will be eased with Saudi Arabia, as for Egypt, who cares? Did you really think Egypt has any power in the Arab world? They have an economy in ruins and can't influence anything besides take orders from America and Israel to keep camp david accords in check and act against Gaza.

All Turkey wanted from Saudi Arabia was a reasonable answer. How could a state which claims to uphold Islam and sharia support the overthrowing of an Islamist president who was democratically elected in fair elections? That's something that contradicts their values and something they cannot answer reasonably.

Saudi Arabia and Turkey will fair just fine, they need you more than you need them. So be patient and support your foreign policy as it protects your interests. You just done see it yet because it appears as if the tide is with them, it's going to bite them in the near future.
 
@Hazzy997

Why are you constantly talking about Saudi Arabia and the GCC? They are the most stable, prosperous and growing part of the Muslim world. We don't need any foreign Muslim entity and never needed one. Neither the Arab world. We ruled the Muslim world for nearly 1000 years during 90% of all the Muslim conquest and during the Islamic Golden Age and when Islam was spread from Senegal to Indonesia.

How many times do we need to tell you that KSA stands by our Muslim and Arab brothers and sisters and neighbors in Egypt across the beautiful Red Sea?

If MB had the support of the Egyptian people Morsi would still be ruling.

Besides KSA were handling out checks to Egypt under Morsi as well. I hope that we stop doing this since people are ungrateful.

Lastly I don't see any problems between KSA and Turkey. Aside from some small political disagreements.

KSA is supporting the Syrian opposition from Jordan btw.
 
@Hazzy997

Why are you constantly talking about Saudi Arabia and the GCC? They are the most stable, prosperous and growing part of the Muslim world. We don't need any foreign Muslim entity and never needed one. Neither the Arab world. We ruled the Muslim world for nearly 1000 years during 90% of all the Muslim conquest and during the Islamic Golden Age and when Islam was spread from Senegal to Indonesia.

How many times do we need to tell you that KSA stands by our Muslim and Arab brothers and sisters and neighbors in Egypt across the beautiful Red Sea?

If MB had the support of the Egyptian people Morsi would still be ruling.

Besides KSA were handling out checks to Egypt under Morsi as well. I hope that we stop doing this since people are ungrateful.

The GCC should ditch the ME

I don't see any problems between KSA and Turkey. Aside from some small political disagreements.

Stop going on a rant, the GCC/Egypt/Saudi Arabia are essential for this discussion and were brought up here before I mentioned them.

As for Egypt, that's far from true. Saudi Arabia didn't support what it claims it's principles are. Furthermore, the Egyptian military initiated the coup and not the people, the Egyptian military controls nearly half of the Egyptian economy. They could if they didn't like Sisi go on a strike, take steps to ensure an economic crisis and rally the people against him.

This is exactly what happened with Morsi, you can't justify a coup especially after one year, if the people don't like him as you claim then they wouldn't re-elect him in the next elections cycle.
 
Stop going on a rant, the GCC/Egypt/Saudi Arabia are essential for this discussion and were brought up here before I mentioned them.

As for Egypt, that's far from true. Saudi Arabia didn't support what it claims it's principles are. Furthermore, the Egyptian military initiated the coup and not the people, the Egyptian military controls nearly half of the Egyptian economy. They could if they didn't like Sisi go on a strike, take steps to ensure an economic crisis and rally the people against him.

This is exactly what happened with Morsi, you can't justify a coup especially after one year, if the people don't like him as you claim then they wouldn't re-elect him in the next elections cycle.

Which rant? You seem obsessed about KSA and the GCC of late as certain Farsi cretins.

What are KSA's principles then? Tell us. Did KSA impose their will on anybody?

Yes, is that why millions were protesting in the Egyptian street? It was all an conspiracy?

Then why the hell were KSA supporting Egypt financially when Morsi ruled? Does that makes any sense to you?

I don't care about that coup. I am not Egyptian. Nor am I a fan of any political party. Most least so-called Islamist parties hungry for power.

Why don't we just leave this mess for the Egyptians to decide?

Just like we leave internal Palestinian matters for Palestinians?

Now don't mention Syria. It's a totally different topic and interference is needed there. Besides the interference was not started by the party that supports the Syrian opposition.
 
Which rant? You seem obsessed about KSA and the GCC of late as certain Farsi cretins.

No I'm not, I've visited the GCC before, this is political discussion related to the topic.

What are KSA's principles then. Tell us.

Doesn't KSA claim to uphold Islam and sharia?

Yes, is that why millions were protesting in the Egyptian street? It was all an conspiracy?

Yes it is, there's no way 33 million as claimed could fit on a few kilometers of street. I was in Egypt during this period, I knew about the situation in person more than any of you here. There were protestors but nowhere near the number claimed by the opposition. And, protests don't translate into overthrowing the elected leader. Morsi conceded to almost all of their demands, and yet we realized there's a scheme to it.

Then why the hell were KSA supporting Egypt financially when Morsi ruled? Does that makes any sense to you?

With how much? And before the transition to power.

I don't care about that coup. I am not Egyptian. Nor am I a fan of any political party. Most least so-called Islamist parties hungry for power.

Yeah sure, they're hungry for power and not the people who have persecuted them and imprisoned them for over 60 years. Not the people who overthrow an elected leader in less than a year and proceeded to ban all their activities and imprison all their leaders.

Why don't we just leave this mess for the Egyptians to decide?

You tell me, Saudi Arabia threw billions to the military regime and declared the MB as a terrorist organization, so much for 'just leaving this mess for Egyptians to decide'.

Just like we leave internal Palestinian matters for Palestinians?

Yeah, like condemn Hamas and give hundreds of millions to the PA. It's well known in the Arab world that GCC/PA elements have tried strangling Hamas to overthrow them too.

Now don't mention Syria. It's a totally different topic and interference is needed there. Besides the interference was not started by the party that supports the Syrian opposition.

Do you read my posts? I was in the middle of a discussion on Syria with a Turkish member, what's wrong about that?

@al-Hasani

You need to read this if you thought Saudi Arabia is comfortable with MB rule.

Saudi Arabia Pleased With Morsi’s Fall - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

Hours after the Muslim Brotherhood president of Egypt, Mohammed Morsi, was deposed, the Saudi regime hurried to congratulate newly appointed interim president Adly Mansour. The Saudis must have felt comfortable with the quick downfall of a political Islamist party that found itself in power after several decades in the opposition.
It is ironic that a regime that prides itself on ruling according to divine law fears most the rise of Islamism to power. It must be said that like most Western governments, Saudi Arabia was more than confortable coexisting with the Egyptian military dictatorship under deposed President Hosni Mubarak. But when a democratically elected Muslim Brotherhood president was sworn into office in 2012, Riyadh was alarmed. Saudi Arabia had always had a troubled relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood version of Islamism, its organizational capacity and its increasingly accepted message that combined Islam with an eagerness to engage with the democratic process.

Saudi Arabia hosted Arab Muslim Brotherhood exiles during the repression of the 1950 and 1960s. They came not only from Egypt but also from Syria, Iraq and other Arab countries where they had been prosecuted. Brotherhood cadres played a pivotal role in Saudi educational institutions and later the transnational organizations set up by King Faisal to counter the spread of Arab nationalism and leftist movements. Saudis used the exiled Islamists as tools to weaken such movements and undermine their credibility, while emphasizing their un-Islamic character. During the anti-Soviet jihad in the 1980s, Saudis used the worldwide networks established by the Brotherhood to inflame the imagination of its youth and channel aid and weapons. Yet Saudi Arabia never allowed the Brotherhood to establish branches there as they did in other Arab countries and in the West.

Educated urban Saudis were attracted to the Brotherhood discourse and impressed by its ability to form civil society organizations, posing as charitable and welfare services. Individuals frustrated with the Wahhabi-Salafist tradition that forbids political action and unconditionally obeys rulers, found in the Brotherhood an authentic discourse capable of mobilizing society. The ideological vacuum that resulted from the death of Arab nationalism and socialism after 1967 was quickly filled by political Islam.

To counter the appeal of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Saudi religious establishment condemned it as a divisive force and accused it of undermining people’s creeds. Saudi Arabia began to curb the activities of the Brotherhood after the latter condemned the Saudis for inviting foreign troops to expel then-Iraqi president Saddam Hussein from Kuwait in 1990.

After 9/11, suspicion of the Brotherhood evolved into outright hostility. Prince Nayif accused the Brotherhood of radicalizing Saudi youth and held it responsible for the terrorism wave that swept the country from 2003 to 2008. Such accusations were unfounded, as most jihadis operating in Saudi Arabia grounded their actions in the teachings of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, the 18th-century preacher whose tradition has been dominant in Saudi Arabia up to the present.

Saudi hostility to the Brotherhood goes beyond allegations of terrorism. It is grounded in several factors that make it impossible for the regime to coexist with the Brotherhood as a party in opposition or in power.

First, the Saudi regime fears ideological competition from a political party that upholds Islam. The regime prides itself on being the only one that rules according to Sharia. It has propagated this myth for several decades and thus distinguished itself from so-called secular Arab dictators. Its religious establishment seriously believes that its political leadership is the only one that respects Islam. The Muslim Brotherhood in power in the most populous Arab country undermines the Saudi monopoly on Islamic politics.

Second, unlike official Saudi Salafists, who still believe that democracy is a Western import that promises to bring atheists, secularists and leftists to power, the Brotherhood engaged in elections, won seats in parliaments and even came to power in Tunisia and Egypt. Surely, then, Islam and democracy are not so incompatible. This in itself threatens the foundations of Saudi rule, which is still based on absolute kingship, difficult to justify from an Islamic point of view. The Brotherhood therefore exposes Saudi claims to legitimacy and undermines their credibility as lawful Muslim rulers. The Saudi regime worries about its population being contaminated by ideas and practices of how a Muslim can be democratic while remaining within the fold of Islam. This is not to say that a socially conservative Islamist trend like the Brotherhood is a bastion of liberty and democracy, but the Brotherhood's willingness to engage with democratic institutions is enough to scare the Saudi regime.

Third, like the Saudi regime, the Muslim Brotherhood is a transnational organization with branches across the Arab and Muslim world. It has penetrated educational institutions, preaching forums and relief organizations, which the Saudi government has been eager to control and dominate for its own foreign policy and legitimacy abroad. While the Brotherhood does not have the economic resources of Saudi Arabia, it has nevertheless spread across the globe, sometimes in disguise. The Saudis worry about the impact of this global competition among Muslims worldwide, who may become galvanized against Saudi policies. The competition over the hearts and minds of Muslims in the growing global Muslim society worries Saudi Arabia, which seeks to monopolize these platforms.

Fourth, Saudi Arabia prides itself on representing Sunni Islam against its alleged enemies, mainly other sects such as the Shiites. When the Brotherhood called for Islamic unity before it came to power in Egypt, thus softening the Sunni-Shiite divide, the Saudi regime felt undermined by such slogans. When Morsi visited Iran in 2012, Saudi attacks on the rapprochement reached a high tone. He tried to redeem himself when he denounced Alawite President Bashar al-Assad of Syria, but the damage had already been done. Saudi Arabia feared that Morsi would make Egypt drift toward Iran, with whom Saudi Arabia competes for hegemony at the regional level.

Saudi Arabia definitely wanted to see in Egypt a president who would continue to warn against the Shiite crescent, like Mubarak, and unable to break away from Saudi patronage. The Muslim Brotherhood had already drifted toward Qatar rather than Iran, thus allowing this small but wealthy Gulf country to undermine Saudi designs for the region and split the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) countries over the desired outcome of the Arab uprisings. The Muslim Brotherhood is seen by the Saudis as an untrustworthy and ungrateful organization that is now too close to Saudi borders, which may allow it to not only spread its ideology among Saudis but also recruit them upon visits to Qatar, where a network of Muslim Brotherhood-friendly intellectual forums, media platforms and think tanks have been established.

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No I'm not, I've visited the GCC before, this is political discussion related to the topic.



Doesn't KSA claim to uphold Islam and sharia?



Yes it is, there's no way 33 million as claimed could fit on a few kilometers of street. I was in Egypt during this period, I knew about the situation in person more than any of you here. There were protestors but nowhere near the number claimed by the opposition. And, protests don't translate into overthrowing the elected leader. Morsi conceded to almost all of their demands, and yet we realized there's a scheme to it.



With how much? And before the transition to power.



Yeah sure, they're hungry for power and not the people who have persecuted them and imprisoned them for over 60 years. Not the people who overthrow an elected leader in less than a year and proceeded to ban all their activities and imprison all their leaders.



You tell me, Saudi Arabia threw billions to the military regime and declared the MB as a terrorist organization, so much for 'just leaving this mess for Egyptians to decide'.



Yeah, like condemn Hamas and give hundreds of millions to the PA. It's well known in the Arab world that GCC/PA elements have tried strangling Hamas to overthrow them too.



Do you read my posts? I was in the middle of a discussion on Syria with a Turkish member, what's wrong about that?

Yes, some small Emirate in the UAE as you told.

Was Egypt ruled by Sharia during Mursi? Is KSA exporting Sharia to other countries or telling other countries to adopt it?

More than the EGYPTIAN users living in Egypt? I doubt so. 33 million? Where did that number come from?

I don't have the exact number but we were giving him aid as well. Not because we give a crap about the MB or Sisi but because we want a stable Egypt next door. A stable Egypt often means a stable KSA and region. Just like with Iraq.

None of that has anything to do with KSA and the MB are hardly innocent are they? They have a certain history of terrorist attacks.

Billions? That's an overestimation. Most of the money was donated by UAE btw. The same UAE that MB members tried to harm by plotting to overthrow the government that is supported by 90% of all people if not more. So much for peaceful means.

Why should KSA or the GCC care about thread from tiny Gaza and Hamas of all organizations? You for real?

Yeah, by mentioning KSA and the GCC which has nothing to do with Egyptian-Turkish relations.

Since when are you using Jewish sources (Al-Monitor) written by some nobody as your source to prove a point?

I don't read that nonsense page or its stupid authors.
 
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Congrats with becoming a Turkish mod.
thanks.

I wrote my post in literary 2.5 minutes. Pissed off because FC Barcelona lost again. Bunch of gays and overpaid divas.

BTW congrats with becoming a Turkish mod.
im guilty of long posts to sometimes. Except I usually cop paste. Anyway continue on guys.
Erdogan Challenges Armenians to face Historical Facts​

Demographic studies by Professor Justin McCarthy show that roughly 600,000 Armenians died during the struggles as compared to almost 3 million Muslim deaths. Vartanian claims that 1.5 million Armenians were killed -- however, according to census figures of the British as well as the Ottomans, there were never more than 1.3 million Armenians in Anatolia.

Turks Died Too - The Tech

There are Ottoman military records that tell of massacres of Turks and Kurds by Armenians, eyewitness accounts by Russian military men of Armenian atrocities against Turks, evidence of Americans who saw the destruction of the Ottoman East by Armenians. Most important, there is demographic evidence that tells us, for example, that 60 percent of the Moslems of the province of Van, where the Armenians began their rebellion, died in war. Such evidence belies claims of a one sided massacre.

Assembly of Turkish American Associations

Among many documents in foreign archives which are often ignored or concealed, a document in Russia’s official archives shows Armenians carried out mass killings in 1915. The 65 page report was written by Russian Brigadier General Leonid Bolkhovinitov, who was stationed in the Caucasus front, and dispatched to the Russian military headquarters on December 11, 1915 and titled “The Real Situation.”

It constitutes a follow-up to a report submitted to the Russian Tsar by Armenians on “The Activities of the Armenian Voluntary Bands in the Caucasus.” Bolkhovinitov says in his report that “Armenian voluntary units had started violent slaughters against the Muslim people with racist motives,” and that Armenian reports given to the Russians did not reflect the actual situation in the region. The Russian official states in his report that “We shall not believe in the death tolls that the Armenians give. The number of missing people has been constantly exaggerated in the memos distributed by the Dashnak party and there is no doubt that they are politically-motivated.”

Bolkhovinitov’s report also underlines that the history of the events which he dubs the “Armenian Problem” go back to 1890. Some of the important findings Bolkhovinitov lists in his report are:

  • European diplomats imposed the ideas of an “Independent Armenia” on the Armenians. Armenian intellectuals in spreading seditious ideology among Armenians in the Ottoman Empire and designed the plan of shedding enough blood to bring about European intervention.
  • Armenian terrorist organizations waged violence not only against Ottoman Muslims but also against Armenians who did not cooperate with them.
  • Armenian voluntary bands engaged in brutal massacres against the Muslim population in the occupied areas; ethnically cleansed the Muslim population regardless of gender and age, plundered and destroyed the villages. These actions are systematic.
According to Bolhovitinov’s report, Armenian voluntary bands who joined the Russian forces during World War I wreaked havoc on the civilian population of Anatolia. The report includes photographs of the notorious Armenian “Kazar” and “Sepuh” bands, which, according to Bolhovitinov, not even the Russians were able keep under control.

A Fabricated Genocide | A half truth is a whole lie…

@Al-Kurdi check it out.
 
Was Egypt ruled by Sharia during Mursi? Is KSA exporting Sharia to other countries or telling other countries to adopt it?

That's no the point, one would assume they support Islamists for mutual benefit.

More than the EGYPTIAN users living in Egypt? I doubt so. 33 million? Where did that number come from?

Everybody was claiming this during the period from August.

I don't have the exact number but we were giving him aid as well. Not because we give a crap about the MB or Sisi but because we want a stable Egypt next door. A stable Egypt often means a stable KSA and region. Just like with Iraq.

Egypt is not any more stable than it was under Morsi.

None of that has anything to do with KSA and the MB are hardly innocent are they? They have a certain history of terrorist attacks.

Innocent from what? And what attack are you speaking of?

Billions? That's an overestimation. Most of the money was donated by UAE btw. The same UAE that MB members tried to harm by plotting to overthrow the government that is supported by 90% of all people if not more. So much for peaceful means.

Yes they sent billions and I'm aware the UAE sent much more. Oh c'mon, you're going to take that bogus story about how 90 Egyptians plotted to overthrow the government.

Why should KSA or the GCC care about thread from tiny Gaza and Hamas of all organizations? You for real?

You tell me, they want the PA to replace Hamas. They have ended all construction projects in Gaza because they don't like Hamas.

Yeah, by mentioning KSA and the GCC which has nothing to do with Egyptian-Turkish relations.

Yes they do.

Since when are you using Jewish sources (Al-Monitor) written by some nobody as your source to prove a point?

My fault, I didn't realize that you guys were this anti-Israel especially when some of you cheered for Israel against the Palestinians.
 
That's no the point, one would assume they support Islamists for mutual benefit.



Everybody was claiming this during the period from August.



Egypt is not any more stable than it was under Morsi.



Innocent from what? And what attack are you speaking of?



Yes they sent billions and I'm aware the UAE sent much more. Oh c'mon, you're going to take that bogus story about how 90 Egyptians plotted to overthrow the government.



You tell me, they want the PA to replace Hamas. They have ended all construction projects in Gaza because they don't like Hamas.



Yes they do.



My fault, I didn't realize that you guys were this anti-Israel especially when some of you cheered for Israel against the Palestinians.

Then what is the point? How can Mursi be an Islamist if he does not rule by Sharia?

Obviously idiotic propaganda. Nowhere did 1/3 of the entire population demonstrate. Anyway that's not the point. The point is that millions of Egyptians did and that the MB are gone.

No, nobody claimed that to be the case. The ME region is going through some big changes. Not going to compare it with WW1 and WW2 where 80 million people, 90% Europeans, died but it's still turbulent.

Not different from what they donated before. If that was false then why should non-MB countries fear the MB?

Has the MB ever succeeded anywhere? They failed in Egypt, they failed in Tunisia and are failing in Libya. That's a bad, bad track record.

Anyway how is that different to Quntar donating billions to the MB?

What?

GCC program finances numerous projects in Gaza Strip. - Free Online Library

Or do you want or expect the GCC to risk being politically isolated just so they can send some missiles to Gaza that are not a threat for Israel?

How so?

Well, you should be anti-Israeli given that Israel prevents an Palestinian homeland as an Palestinian nationalist.

I am just telling you about that Al-Monitor outlet. You can google it.

Al-Monitor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's based in Washington D.C. as well.
 
Then what is the point? How can Mursi be an Islamist if he does not rule by Sharia?

Saudi Arabia does have Sharia, and Morsi was slowly going to introduce reform. You don't need it to be considered Islamist.

Obviously idiotic propaganda. Nowhere did 1/3 of the entire population demonstrate. Anyway that's not the point. The point is that millions of Egyptians did and that the MB are gone.

The point is Morsi conceded to all demands of liberal opposition and the army overthrew an elected leader.

Not different from what they donated before. If that was false then why should non-MB countries fear the MB?

Because they fear any political opposition, the MB does not seek to overthrow any government. People know that if democratic elections were to occur they view the MB as a threat to their monarchy rule. Not as a threat to the nation.

Anyway how is that different to Quntar donating billions to the MB?

Qatar supported a democratically elected government, Saudi Arabia and GCC came out before Morsi was even overthrown and pledged support to military regime.



Following events in Egypt they suspended all of them.

Or do you want or expect the GCC to risk being politically isolated just so they can send some missiles to Gaza that are not a threat for Israel?

I could care less about them sending weapons, 90% of the weapons are produced at home. And don't get started about how they aren't a threat, do you want me to post videos? Is that why Israel is spying 24/7 on Gaza and has attacked it continuously for the past two decades in Gaza?

Well, you should be anti-Israeli given that Israel prevents an Palestinian homeland as an Palestinian nationalist.

I'm mocking some Arabs here that suddenly become anti-Israel when most are pro Israel, if some aren't I don't see them expressing it in any way. Rarely do I.
 

Okay? Are you trying to make a point? I can post a link too.

June 30 anti-Morsi crowd figures just don't add up

Despite the well-known difficulties of estimating large crowds, it is clear that the numbers game was played by the opposition and the military to orchestrate and justify the coup d’etat against President Mohamed Morsi. For whatever reason, several external parties also used the numbers claimed to validate their support for the military intervention.

The Army presented a video to the media taken by military helicopter of demonstrations in Cairo to justify their coup; emphasising that the entire population had risen up against President Morsi and as such, it had no choice but to align itself with the people. No one questioned the fact that some of the video footage presented as evidence against Morsi was actually the filming of a pro-Morsi demonstration.

Disturbingly, certain countries in the west and leading political figures supported the argument without confirming the veracity of the figures quoted. They went along with the coup, which to all intents and purposes targeted not just the elected president but the entire process of democratic transition in Egypt, on the basis that this was the will of the overwhelming majority of the people.

To give their statistics an air of respectability and credence, the anti-Morsi alliance claimed that their crowd statistics were obtained from coverage and analyses conducted by Google Earth. Though never confirmed by the satellite giant, the estimates given ranged from 14.3 million to 33 million demonstrators. A search of the net revealed no official statement by Google Earth to confirm these claims. Meanwhile, MEMO requested a comment from Google but has not received a reply.

What made matters even more dubious was the intervention by former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who said that the army had to choose between "intervention or chaos". He added that while "seventeen million" on the streets is not an election, "it is an awesome manifestation of people power."

Ten years ago, on 15 February 2003, the organisers and media reported that two million British citizens marched in London against the war in Iraq. The Metropolitan Police estimated the crowd to be at least 750,000. Notwithstanding, Mr Blair ignored his people with consummate disdain. The enormity of that historic demonstration was recorded by aMetropolitan Police helicopter. At the time, London was not alone in its opposition to the invasion. There were simultaneous demonstrations in 800 other cities around the world, and an estimated 30 million protesters participated in what was considered the largest global demonstrations in one day in the history of mankind. That said, comparing the videos of these demonstrations to that of 30/6, it seems highly improbable that 30 million people or even a tenth of that figure were mobilised in Egypt on 30 June.

Although Google is yet to confirm the huge figures quoted by the Salvation Front and Tamarod, western researchers had previously used Google Earth Ruler to measure the capacity of Tahrir Square and the accessible spaces surrounding it. Having used this method himself, Dr Clark McPhail an emeritus professor of Sociology at the University of Illinois, and an expert in the science of crowd-sizing, ruled out the possibility of fitting one million people into the square.

While Cairo is by no means representative of Egypt it has, like most capitals, been the centre of major national protests. The area of Tahrir Square is 53,000 square metres. While the area from its peripheries to the other side of the Nile across the Nile Palace Bridge is 13,000 sq m. The area from Tahrir Square to the 6 October Bridge is 20,000 sq m. Accordingly, the total area that contained the demonstrators was 86,000 square metres.

Assuming that the highest number of people which can be squeezed into one square meter is four, it means that the maximum capacity of Tahrir Square and its environs on 30 June was 344,000 demonstrators.

As for the area of the Presidential Palace and its environs, the video shown by the opposition revealed that the length of the demonstration was 1,400 metres (just under a kilometre and a half); it had a width of 45 metres, giving a total area of 63,000 sq m.

Added to this, there was another demonstration north of the palace in an area of 9,000 sq m. Altogether, therefore, the total area accessible to the demonstrators in the vicinity of the Presidential Palace was 72,000 square metres.

Accordingly, the total number of demonstrators around the Presidential Palace, using the base figure of four people per square metre, would be 288,000. The grand total from Tahrir Square and the Presidential Palace area would therefore be about 632,000 protesters on the day. These calculations are consistent with findings of various researchers and bloggers.

Even if the figures are stretched, the number of June 30 protesters could not have been more than a few million people in the whole country. In fact, no credible media, even those which inflated the numbers and exaggerated them, ever used anything other than the vague term, "millions of protesters". The Egyptian media, however, were not as restrained in their reporting. Muhammad Hasanayn Heikal, the veteran Egyptian writer and former information minister under Gamal Abdel Nasser described the demonstrations on June 30 as "unprecedented in the modern human politics, larger than whatever England or France had witnessed."

However, there is nothing in the conduct of the Egyptian media prior to June 30 that suggests that they would offer an impartial estimate of the crowds on the day. Their anti-Morsi and anti-Brotherhood campaign throughout last year and even after his overthrow, as well as the media's role in endorsing, publicising and cheering Tamarod's actions from its inception until the realisation of its aim, all prevent us from regarding the Egyptian media as a neutral and reliable source on the June 30 protests.

It is incredible that the coup plotters' reference to Google Earth has never been viewed critically in Egypt, the Middle East or indeed in the west. People in positions of authority and influence have accepted the figures without any critical analysis or corroboration. Whether this was on account of their own laziness or because of complicity with the anti-Morsi opposition is anyone’s guess.

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