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Enough with democracy, welcome martial law?

well come to pakistan, you will know , all it means!
or become a pakistani?
i guss, thn you will understandThe problem is some guys cannot see anything in between 1 and 0, but as always it is always in between
or are you talking about your poor army cheif ?who get wacked by your croupt politicians???


dont you say this in public, specialy in punjab!
maybe peoples going to burn you out, cause they are really fed up with this, stupid system of governence, where only all the croupts have the right to rule!
btw this democrazy , looks more thn pathetic!
Dude I was responding to your response to someone about being a ally of US.. I think you did not understand it the way I intended.. No need to go talk about India man.. did I insult you or your nation anywhere?

yeah but at least in Islamic Republic of Pakistan they dont have to deal with the things they WOULD HAVE in ''secular democratic shining hindustan''


I watched a documentary about these ''untouchables'' (as you call them)

When they go to a shop to buy a drink they have to stand last in line and then they are delibarately served them with unwashed cups. Also one dalit was mugged and bashed in the street and then urinated on. In a rural area, dalit was thrashed to death for using a ''brahmin water pump''...hell - they dont even share water from the same jug.

Its the most bizare thing ive seen. these guys have it bad.


hindus in Pakistan are typically from these under-privileged ''castes'' so therefore they are glad to be in Pakistan where (despite other issues) they dont face this kind of daily humiliation and they can live with some dignity

but why do i need to waste my time convincing a bunch of shmucks
I guess we were talking about Pakistan here, do not know you were so desperate to turn everything to India..

I already know how my country is and im not proud of our social evils... thank you for reminding me again how considerate you are..
 
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yeah only when your people had to bring up hindus in Pakistan
Your view maybe overblown but I believe that is the only way to being out a problem anywhere..

About when I talked about the bold part, I was refering to your constitution which does not allow anyone apart from Muslim to lead no matter what.. if you think it is correct who am I to say anything, but it mightily contradicts your statement

i personally would support a hindu over a muslim leader if he was better equipped and more honest....no problem

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...ocracy-welcome-martial-law-9.html#post3090292
 
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Democracy Vs Dictatorship: Pakistan’s Economic Perspective — Document Transcript
http://www.slideshare.net/haideralishah/democracy-vs-dictatorship-pakistans-economic-perspective

1. Pakistan Air Force Institue Of Economics & TextileEconomic Evaluationof Democracies &DictatorshipsCourse: Management Operations Of Pakistan EconomyGroup Members: 1. Haider Ali Shah 2. Hasnain Amir Ali 3. Rahim Amir Ali 4. Tabraiz Khawar 5. Shehroz Sikandar
2. AcknowledgementMe and my group members have put our best efforts for the successful completion of thisproject assigned to us as the class project of the course Management Operations Of PakistanEconomy by our respected instructor Sir Riaz Ahmad. In Pakistan the wise ones have spentyears debating on what is best for our country democracy or dictatorship but there hasn’t beena single research that evaluated the economic aspects of each of these forms. This reportfocuses on evaluating the economic performance of democratic governments and dictatorshipsin pakistan.I am highly indebted to my University PAF-KIET and my instructor for giving me this opportunityto work on this very critical issue as this is one of the problems that should be examined verycarefully and I believe that this report would provide substantial amount of information tothose who wish to work on the same topic.
3. IntroductionIt has been 64 years since the creation of Pakistan and in this huge time span Pakistan has seenthree military dictatorships and four democratic governments but still the debate of which isbest for Pakistan Democracy or Dictatorship is still on fire and we haven’t reached anyconclusion of issues. Social implications of both the forms of governments have beenexperienced by the majority of people living in Pakistan but we completely lack a study whichdetermines the economic implications of these forms of governments and comparativelyanalyze the economic performance of the various democratic governments and militarydictatorships. This report has been made in order to fulfill the above mentioned purpose i.e. toexamine what were the economic merits and demerits of these governments.In this report we will be evaluating the economic performance of governments of Pakistan fromthe year 1977 to 2007 using six important economic indicators which are GDP, Inflation, GDPgrowth rate ,literacy, Poverty and employment. In the above mentioned period starting from1977 to 2007 we have seen two democratic governments and two military dictatorship erastherefore by the detail examination of these 30 years we will be able to develop a pretty clearidea that what actually is better for Pakistan democracy or dictatorship from an economist’sperspective. Since the basic purpose of this report is determine which proved the besttherefore the natural disasters that took place in each of the governments and their intensitywill also be taken into consideration Below is the brief introduction to these two democraticgovernments and two dictatorships which were in charge during the year 1977-2007: 1. 1977-1988 Zia- Ul-Haq’s Era: This period starting from 1977-1988 is regarded as the second dictatorship era in the history of Pakistan as the first one was Ayub Khan’s era, it is also called the era of Islamization. General Zia-Ul-Haq took over as the president of Pakistan in 1977 after getting Shaheed Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto hanged till death. His period of power is also regarded as the era of Islamization because immediately after getting hold of presIdentship of Pakistan he introduced strict Islamic Laws such as creation of Majlis-e-Shaura and exclusion of Ahmadi’s from the muslim faith. People regard Zia as one of the good leaders and president of Pakistan. Unfortunately in Zia’s rule Pakistan was hit by three earth quakes in 1977,1978 and 1988 and the number of people effected were 1,022,000, 2,246,000 and 1,000,000 respectively which shows that natural disasters played a critical role in damaging the overall economic performance of
4. Zia rule. The second military dictatorship in Pakistan ended in 1988 when General Zia-Ul- Haq died in a plane crash.2. 1988-1999 Third Democratic Era: This decade is regarded as the third democratic era in this period of approximately eleven years Pakistan’s political history experienced two democratic government twice i.e Late Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif ruled Pakistan alternatively each being elected twice with heavy mandate of the people. First Democratic Rule 1988-1990: After the death of Zia-UlHaq the first open elections were held in November 1988 and the Pakistan Peoples Party won the elections with heavy mandate. The political understanding between the president of Pakistan at that time which was Ghulam Ishaq Khan and Benzir Bhutto never looked stable and Khan in 1990 using the eighteenth amendment dismissed her from the post of Prime Minister Of Pakistan. In these three years of PPP no major natural disaster was observed. Second Democratic Rule 1990-1993: After the Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto was deposed by Khan another parliamentary elections were held by the election commission of Pakistan and in the result of those elections for the first time in history of Pakistan PML(N) got the chance to rule the country but in 1993 Nawaz government encountered a similar fate and was deposed by Khan. During Nawaz Rule Pakistan two floods and a wind storm and approximately 20 million people were affected. Third Democratic Rule 1993-1996: After Nawaz Sharif was Deposed elections were held again and Pakistan Peoples Party stood victorious and Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto became the Prime Minister. It is said that during this rule of Mohtarma the corruption was at its height and in 1996 President Farooq Laghari deposed this government.
5. Fourth Democratic Rule 1997-1999: In 1997 Parliamentary elections were held and as result of which Pakistan Muslim League(Nawaz) won the elections with heavy mandate with Nawaz Shareef became the Prime minister of Pakistan for the second time in the history of Pakistan. Nuclear tests were one of the important achievements of his rule. In 1999 President Musharaf took over the government and Nawaz Shareef along with his family was sent to Saudi Arabia. In 1998 his government experienced a great flood.3. Third Military Era 2001 -2008: After evacuation of Nawaz Sharif , General , Musharaf took the control of the government and legitimized his rule due to elections held in 2002 brought PML(Q) into the government who proved to be loyal supporters of President Musharaf and he ruled Pakistan for more than 8 years. During his rule there were two major natural disasters and in those natural disasters approx 4 million people were affected.
6. Economic Perspective 1. 1977-1988 Zia- Ul-Haq’s Era: This period starting from 1977-1988 is regarded as the second dictatorship era in the history of Pakistan as the first one was Ayub Khan’s era, it is also called the era of Islamization GDP 45,000,000,000.00 40,000,000,000.00 35,000,000,000.00 30,000,000,000.00 25,000,000,000.00 20,000,000,000.00 GDP (current US$) 15,000,000,000.00 10,000,000,000.00 5,000,000,000.00 0.00 1977 1978 1979 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 Electricity production (kWh) 40,000,000,000.00 30,000,000,000.00 20,000,000,000.00 Electricity production (kWh) 10,000,000,000.00 0.00 197719781979198019811982198319841985198619871988
7. GDP growth 12 10 8 6 4 GDP growth 2 0 1977 1978 1979 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 Inflation 15 10 5 Inflation 0 1977 1978 1979 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 Unemployment4.5 43.5 32.5 2 Unemployment1.5 10.5 0 1977 1978 1979 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988
8. Observations Under the rule of Zia-Ul-Haq for the period of ten year the GDP of Pakistan was on the increasing trend during the ten years of Zia-Ul-Haq’s rule the GDP of Pakistan increased by 154% while the average GDP growth rate was 6.5%. Electricity Production during Zia-Ul-Haq’s Era increased by 200% in the ten years which shows that Electricity production was given much preference by him. The data of inflation shows that that the in this ten year rule the average inflation rate/year was 7% while in these ten years a negative growth of 13% can be seen in the observed. The unemployment rate also decreased by 27% in the ten year of Zia-Ul-Haq.
9. 2. 1988-1999 Third Democratic Era: This decade is regarded as the third democratic era in this period of approximately eleven years Pakistan’s political history experienced two democratic government twice i.e Late Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif ruled Pakistan alternatively each being elected twice with heavy mandate of the people. First Democratic Rule 1988-1990 (PPP): GDP (current US$) Electricity production4.02E+10 (kWh)4.015E+1 3.8E+104.01E+10 3.7E+104.005E+1 GDP 3.6E+10 (current Electricity 4E+10 3.5E+10 US$) production3.995E+1 3.4E+10 (kWh)3.99E+10 3.3E+10 1989 1990 1989 1990 GDP growth Inflation 5 9.54.8 9 8.54.6 GDP 8 Inflation4.4 growth 7.54.2 7 1989 1990 1989 1990
10. Unemployment 4 3 2 Unemployme 1 nt 0 1989 1990Observations: During this two years rule of Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto it is observed that the GDP of Pakistan declined by 2% GDP growth rate also declined by 10%. There was an increase in the production of electricity but only by 8% There was an increase in the inflation and inflation during those two years increased by 15%. In the short ruling period of Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto the unemployment in Pakistan decreased by 18%.
11. Second Democratic Rule 1990-1993(PML): GDP (current US$) Electricity production (kWh)5.2E+10 6E+10 5E+10 5E+10 4E+104.8E+10 3E+10 Electricity4.6E+10 GDP (current 2E+10 productio US$)4.4E+10 n (kWh) 1E+104.2E+10 0 1991 1992 1993 1991 1992 1993 GDP growth Inflation10 15 8 6 10 4 GDP growth Inflation 5 2 0 0 1991 1992 1993 1991 1992 1993 Unemployment 7 6 5 4 3 Unemployment 2 1 0 1991 1992 1993
12. Observations : The three years ruled by PML(N) and Mian Nawaz Sharif show that in these three years the GDP of Pakistan increased by 18.3% while the average growth rate per year was 4.3% per year. Electricity production in this government increased by 23% which was a significant increase in the amount of electricity produced. Another positive about this government was that the inflation decreased by 15.2% while the average rate of inflation per year was 10%. The average unemployment during PML(N) government rate was 5.1% which is much greated compared to the PPP government.
13. 3. Third Military Era 2001 -2008: After evacuation of Nawaz Sharif , General , Musharaf took the control of the government and legitimized his rule due to elections held in 2002 brought PML(Q) into the government who proved to be loyal supporters of President Musharaf and he ruled Pakistan for more than 8 years. GDP (current US$) 2E+11 1.5E+11 1E+11 GDP (current US$) 5E+10 0 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Electricity production (kWh) 1.2E+11 1E+11 8E+10 6E+10 4E+10 Electricity production (kWh) 2E+10 0 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 GDP growth 10 8 6 4 GDP growth 2 0 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008
14. Inflation 25 20 15 10 Inflation 5 0 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Unemployment 10 8 6 4 Unemployment 2 0 2000 2002 2004 2006 2007 2008Observations: Gen Pervez Musharaf ruled the country for a period of 8 years and during these eight years there was a massive increase in the GDP of Pakistan by 120%. The increase in the electricity production during Musharaf rule wasn’t that effective because in the period of eight years it only increased by 30%. The inflation in musharaf rule was very well controlled except for 2008 when the rate of inflation was increased to 20% while the average inflation rate per year during his rule was 7%. Though the unemployment increased for few years but then it was well controlled and in in rule the unemployment decreased by the 1% as compared to the previous government.
15. Comparative AnalysisIn this section of the report all the governments that were in power during their rule in theanalyzed thirty years i.e. from 1977 to 2007 we will compare the average of the five economicindicators of each oh the governments to the other governments: 1. GDP( US Dollars): GDP (current US$) 1.2E+11 1E+11 8E+10 6E+10 GDP (current US$) 4E+10 2E+10 0 Zia UI Haq PPP PML(N) Musharaf The graph for the shows that the of Pakistan was highest during the Musharaf rule as compared to the other governments which were in power in these thirty years as well the growth rate was also better as compared to PPP, PML(N) and Zia-Ul-Haq’s government.
16. 2. Electricity Production: Average Electricity production (kWh) 1E+11 8E+10 6E+10 Electricity production (kWh) 4E+10 2E+10 0 Zia UI Haq PPP PML(N) MusharafAlthough the graph shows that electricity production during Zia’s Rule was low it does has a lowaverage electricity production Value per year but during Zia’s rule the electricity productionincreased by 200% and considering the low population at that time the electricity produced wasenough to cater the requirements of the people. While the average electricity productionduring the rule of PPP,PML(N) was much greater than Zia’s graph but their growth rate are verylow as compared to General Zia-Ul-Haq’s rule.
17. 3. GDP Growth Rate: GDP growth 10 8 6 GDP growth 4 2 0 Zia UI Haq PPP PML(N) MusharafThis graph shows the average growth rate per year of all the four governments and it shows that PPPand PML(N) had the highest GDP growth rate of about 8% and 10% respectively but it cannot beignored that PPP and PML(N) only ruled for 2 and 4 years respectively there Zia-ul-Haq’s GDP growthrate cannot be ignored as considering the number of years in his rule it can be said that the GDP growthrate he maintained was not very bad.
18. 4. Inflation Rate: Inflation 12 10 8 6 Inflation 4 2 0 Zia UI Haq PPP PML(N) Musharaf The graph for the inflation rate shows that both the democratic governments i.e. PPP and PML(N) had higher average inflation rate per year as compared to the inflation rate of the military dictatorships i.e. Musharaf and Zia-Ul-Haq’s and the highest average was during the PPP rule.
19. 5. Unemployment Rate: Unemployment 7 6 5 4 Unemployment 3 2 1 0 Zia UI Haq PPP PML(N) Musharaf The Graph of unemployment shows that the rule of mushraf had the highest unemployment rate as compared to the governments of Zia-Ul-Haq, PPP and PML(N).
20. ConclusionAfter extensive research on the topic and and careful evaluation of each form of governmentand each and every political party government the following things were concluded: In terms of GDP the highest growth was observed during the rule of Musharaf and Zia- Ul-Haq which shows that if we consider GDP as the factor for evaluation of governments then dictatorship proves a better option. The second economic indicator used in this report is Electricity production which also indicates the highest growth rates in the terms of electricity production was under the government of Musharaf and Zia-Ul-Haq therefore this factor also supports dictatorship. Our third economic indicator in in this report is inflation and it also indicates that the inflation rates were low and controlled under the governments of Musharaf and Zia as compared to government of PPP and PML(N) therefore this factor also supports dictatorship as a better form of government. Unemployment is the fifth economic factor which we have used to evaluate governments in the past thirty years and this also shows that the unemployment was least during the rule of Zia-Ul-Haq while Musharaf had the highest unemployment rates.After considering the above mentioned points we have reached to the conclusion in theprevious thirty years the best government according the selected economic indicators was thegovernment of Zia-Ul-Haq while Musharaf also did well as compared to PPP and PML(N) and itcan be said that dictatorship has proven as a better form of government for Pakistan.
 
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Era of dictator was much better then this era, Wat this Azaadi(democrazy) have given to us, bullet? bomb blast? more power cuts? more disputes on ground level? divided us into several groups just in the name of vote bank?

Toh khud se kyun nahi insaan bantay? Mulk ko khud kyun nahi acha kartay? Jhoot, chori chakari, katlo gharat kyun nahi bandh karte?

A slaves life under a rich master may be better than a free one. Yet we will not become a slave. To live under a dictatorship is to resign yourself as a slave. There will be cosmetic improvement. Why do you think Musharraf got kicked out? Because he was not better than Zardari? His power brokers - the Chaudharies, were involved in various sugar mill scandals and his ISI was involved in jailing people without a trial and beating them up like they are dogs. The supreme court took action, he tried to have him fired, pooray mulk ne danda de dia and eventually he was kicked out.

Better worse becomes secondary, to freedom. I will only buy the innocence from corruption after these generals have been thoroughly investigated and exonerated in a court of law. Why do you think our generals just sit and look pretty whenever American forces and drones come and bomb the crap out of Pakistan, kill our soldiers and not once have we responded? Why didn't ISI levy espionage charges against Raymond Davis? Kisko kitna mila hai for this silence, jab inka ihtisaab hoga, tab hi pata chalay ga.
 
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Toh khud se kyun nahi insaan bantay? Mulk ko khud kyun nahi acha kartay? Jhoot, chori chakari, katlo gharat kyun nahi bandh karte?

A slaves life under a rich master may be better than a free one. Yet we will not become a slave. To live under a dictatorship is to resign yourself as a slave. There will be cosmetic improvement. Why do you think Musharraf got kicked out? Because he was not better than Zardari? His power brokers - the Chaudharies, were involved in various sugar mill scandals and his ISI was involved in jailing people without a trial and beating them up like they are dogs. The supreme court took action, he tried to have him fired, pooray mulk ne danda de dia and eventually he was kicked out.

Better worse becomes secondary, to freedom. I will only buy the innocence from corruption after these generals have been thoroughly investigated and exonerated in a court of law. Why do you think our generals just sit and look pretty whenever American forces and drones come and bomb the crap out of Pakistan, kill our soldiers and not once have we responded? Why didn't ISI levy espionage charges against Raymond Davis? Kisko kitna mila hai for this silence, jab inka ihtisaab hoga, tab hi pata chalay ga.
Sory to ask ,
Why don't you tell us clearly, that you only support deMmo-crazy , because you think “APPNA-JADUUGAR imran can , clean the mess in 90 days , once he gets clean sweep in genrl elections”
What if he can't win?
What if there were no elections?
What if PPP, wins next elections, would you continue to support Demmo-crazy?
Genrl peoples in pakistan, were more independent durring dictatorships, check the local bodies track records, thn check the details of local bodies govts under demm-crazitic govts?
Economic growth is the thing , which gives the peoples , the more power to select , not the, poetry bassed Novels of Mr FRaZ AHMED faraz, from dream World?
Pakistanis doesn't care much about the dream fantsy world of “jamhoriat” , they do care more about their financial conditions, law & order, supplies of electrcity & feul with resonable pricess, they do care higher infalation, more jobs ezy life, & that's it!
For these basic , little happiness Demm-crazy has allways failed, & its bound to fail in the future!
Either we have “90 day JaDuugar” imran or 9 years of croupt zardari?
The result would be the same, as they were in 90s!
Well thanks for hating PAKARMY & its genrls, plz keep supporting our enemies, because that is going to make us strong.
 
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I always prefer 'Martial Law' Over democracy. But then this democracy should be removed completely. Provinces must be dezolved and only Federal Government and city governments must be in place. And then Pakistan's name should also be changed to 'Islamic States of Pakistan' or something like this.

Also, then criteria for these general and Chief of Army should also be established, so things remain intact.
 
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I always prefer 'Martial Law' Over democracy. But then this democracy should be removed completely. Provinces must be dezolved and only Federal Government and city governments must be in place. And then Pakistan's name should also be changed to 'Islamic States of Pakistan' or something like this.

Also, then criteria for these general and Chief of Army should also be established, so things remain intact.
you my man!
where you been my dear! sir.
sure what ever it takes.:yahoo::welcome::bounce::pakistan:
 
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you my man!
where you been my dear! sir.
sure what ever it takes.:yahoo::welcome::bounce::pakistan:
In a dictatorship the government can do what is needed when it is needed whether it is popular or not. Often times in a democracy it is difficult to do what is needed because there are always interests that are opposed to doing that (i/e health care reform in the US, the insurance companies stood to lose a lot of the easy money they were making, so they convinced those that needed the reform the most that it was bad for them). In China they have a thriving capitalist system under a dictatorial government, it is working like a charm. If China became a democracy tomorrow it would engulf itself in hundreds of civil wars almost instantly.

Dictatorship is potentially far better than democracy at getting things done, because a dictator isn't encumbered by parliaments or fear of losing elections. IF a dictator is honest and acts for the greater or common good, his reign can be wonderful. The Good (Roman) Emperors of the second century demonstrate this quite clearly. Under present conditions, dictatorship is more essential than ever, since democracy by its very nature just can't force people to do without their favorite spending programs, consume less, or have fewer kids. Considering that the alternatives are either dictatorship or economic/environmental disaster, we had better quickly change current, negative perceptions of dictatorship.
 
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20. ConclusionAfter extensive research on the topic and and careful evaluation of each form of governmentand each and every political party government the following things were concluded: In terms of GDP the highest growth was observed during the rule of Musharaf and Zia- Ul-Haq which shows that if we consider GDP as the factor for evaluation of governments then dictatorship proves a better option. The second economic indicator used in this report is Electricity production which also indicates the highest growth rates in the terms of electricity production was under the government of Musharaf and Zia-Ul-Haq therefore this factor also supports dictatorship. Our third economic indicator in in this report is inflation and it also indicates that the inflation rates were low and controlled under the governments of Musharaf and Zia as compared to government of PPP and PML(N) therefore this factor also supports dictatorship as a better form of government. Unemployment is the fifth economic factor which we have used to evaluate governments in the past thirty years and this also shows that the unemployment was least during the rule of Zia-Ul-Haq while Musharaf had the highest unemployment rates.After considering the above mentioned points we have reached to the conclusion in theprevious thirty years the best government according the selected economic indicators was thegovernment of Zia-Ul-Haq while Musharaf also did well as compared to PPP and PML(N) and itcan be said that dictatorship has proven as a better form of government for Pakistan.

Ok, I have some questions here...

What if the dictator turns out to be a Hitler?
What if the dictator just pumped in foreign aid instead of developing the economy within?
What if the dictator sanctioned generating power on the last reserves of the country, will you accept that it was a good move? How will you know it was the last reserve?
For the inflation part, read the second question, it is related..
Unemployment gives you the clearest picture that if an able person is a dictator then it is beneficial if not "bhagwan ke hawale" - you cannot do anything..

The conclusion is based on 30 years of military rule with 35 years of quasi-democracy... that is just a short period of time...

Did you/people think about the future, not just the immediate one but the long term one?

Was not the ignorance in anticipating the future led to the devastating state of affairs? (Read US ally)
 
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Ok, I have some questions here...

What if the dictator turns out to be a Hitler?
What if the dictator just pumped in foreign aid instead of developing the economy within?
What if the dictator sanctioned generating power on the last reserves of the country, will you accept that it was a good move? How will you know it was the last reserve?
For the inflation part, read the second question, it is related..
Unemployment gives you the clearest picture that if an able person is a dictator then it is beneficial if not "bhagwan ke hawale" - you cannot do anything..

The conclusion is based on 30 years of military rule with 35 years of quasi-democracy... that is just a short period of time...

Did you/people think about the future, not just the immediate one but the long term one?

Was not the ignorance in anticipating the future led to the devastating state of affairs? (Read US ally)
i can answer a few , which i really think were to be answer!
hitler?
victor writes the history,he wasnt the victor! but if he was ? thn world history was totaly different thn of now!
future?
if we dont have our present good, how can we have a better future?
its demmo-crazy which kept failing in pakistan & its our dictators , who kept saving pakistan mostly!
 
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i can answer a few , which i really think were to be answer!
hitler?
victor writes the history,he wasnt the victor! but if he was ? thn world history was totaly different thn of now!
future?
He was not the victor but then again, it was only due to him that many people in the history passed off as bad people instead of heinous ones...

Also, please do not undermine the role of defeated in the history, without them the Victor neither does carry any value nor the word...
if we dont have our present good, how can we have a better future?
How can you expect calm before a storm? History stands as a testament to the fact that it was only sacrifice and the power of people which transformed nations into the ones most close to the nature or the natural way of things... and i am talking about centuries of history not 65 years..

It was said even in the old times that a King was successful only if he could put a finger on the nerve of people, the ones who ignored it went downhill without any exception...
its demmo-crazy which kept failing in pakistan & its our dictators , who kept saving pakistan mostly!
Some truth in the statement above. However, pray tell me how did they save Pakistan when actually there was nothing the civilian govt. do to endanger it? (excluding the PPP rule(even that is debatable but the topic of another thread))
 
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I think our Quaid-e-Azam, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, would turn in his grave and be so incredibly ashamed, that the nation he established is now down the drain.

Because it is, we are nothing more then a banana republic, and don't give me sh--t about the fact that we have nukes and such, if we continue to have constant loadshedding and my family continues to endure inhumane circumstances in their village, then what was the point of having nuclear weapons for example? To secure our country? Secure what? Secure the immense corruption and stupidity that prevails in our nation? The moral injustice?

Unity is far to be sought, our country is not united, better yet, it's divided to a point where it's not even funny but scary.

All we do is blame the Indians and Americans, sure the latter plays quite a significant role in our current mess, but still, why does a country of 180+ million people, a country of vibrant people where the majority are young adults who are ready to carry the nation forward, why are we not able to withstand the pressure and bounce back?

Where is the country's self respect? Look at the political power games being played at the moment? Top spots in the government are being shared or distributed as if it's a game, the current "democratically elected government" has destroyed literally every piece of progress we had during Musharraf's era.

These corrupt entities, these f--king parasites leading the country have abused democracy to suit their own agenda's and needs.

The current lot in charge basically think the Pakistani public is stupid, and quite frankly, I don't disagree with them, because the Pakistani public is f--king stupid.

How on earth did Zardari become president in the first place? You want to tell me a sh-tload of Pakistanis felt sorry for him and his dead wife, that all of them immediately went voting for this corrupt billionaire, who doesn't even have a respectable educational degree of SOME SORT?!?!?

Pakistanis felt sympathy for that corrupt woman Benazir? Who also looted our country like a parasite. Good riddance, she is dead, now next up is Zardari together with his whole family.

THERE SHOULD BE ZERO TOLERANCE FOR CORRUPTION.
The sooner Pakistanis realize this, the better. We are talking about the futures, lives, hopes & dreams of millions and millions of Pakistanis, only for those dreams to be destroyed by a core group of imbeciles leading the nation towards selfdestruction.

The gap with India used to be smaller in terms of e.g. overall development, now it's HUGE.
All those Indians are laughing their a--sses off looking at our current mess, and rightly so, we are at their mercy, and you know why? Because we have absolutely no selfrespect, we allow these crooked politicians to loot the country, we never learn from history and from our mistakes, we basically need aid to survive and keep our economy from going bankrupt.

And last but not least, we're also facing the wrath of extremists and suicide attacks in our country.

Majority of Pakistanis want to abandon this joint war on terror with the Americans, they blame the U.S. for our situation, and there is some sense of truth in it, however, OUR people must realize, that, by showing these extremists in our country that we are not siding up with "Kafir America", we are basically giving in to fear and pressure from these militant groups.

WE ARE AFRAID OF REPERCUSSIONS, NOT FROM THE AMERICANS, BUT FROM ENTITIES INSIDE OUR OWN COUNTRY.

AND THAT IS THE REASON WHY WE WANT TO ABANDON THIS WAR ON TERROR, BECAUSE WE'RE AFRAID THAT THIS PARASITICAL DISEASE, WHICH EXISTS INSIDE OUR BORDERS........WILL CONTINUE WITH SUICIDE ATTACKS, BEHEADINGS ETC..

So do we honestly think by telling the Yanks to kiss their a--ss and leave us alone, that we will become stable all of the sudden?

I just hope that IK's way of solving this extremism, is to "reach out" to those people and educate them.

Surely education is the key, but must not the ones who are incurable and brainwashed to such an extent be destroyed by the Pakistani Army?


There are so many double feelings in Pakistan, how to eradicate this current disease of extremists and their mentality & threats? How to keep the Americans at bay? How to improve our image abroad? How to ENDURE THE LOADSHEDDING? HOW and will my children have a good future in Pakistan?

SO MANY QUESTION MARKS? Surely....some of these questions would've been logical questions in reply to our creation decades ago, as a young and fragile nation starting out.
But now, 60+ years later with plenty of experience, we haven't progressed much, if any.

And it's sad to brush aside any of our issues by displaying our nukes, boasting about them or talking about them, because the average Joe in Pakistan including my own family doesn't have the best of living standards.

This is not a country to be proud of, no matter how hard you try, a country which elects this corrupt mafia cannot be proud of its people and itself.

The very foundation Pakistan was built upon is under threat for a long time now, and the Pakistani public doesn't realize this, or perhaps they do, but have no clue how to change it?!???

Meanwhile the political wars inside Pakistan rages on, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, promises are made, statements are being put forward that "everything is going to be allright", but if we're all very honest and look in the damn mirror, we're in deep sh---t.


And all you people still yearn for democracy and do not realize it is bleeding us dry.
Why do you people care so much, do you enjoy voting that much?

I wouldn't even care nor would I ever vote if there was 1 dictator or 1 communist party for all I care, as long as I saw that they were leading my nation in respectable fashion and my family had no worries, I would NEVER EVER even think of democracy, as long as my people are doing well and our country is progressing together with other nations on this planet, in the same trend, along the same acceptable lines these days.

We have the resources, the manpower, the skill, talent, but we lack vision......

I'm not losing hope, I never will, but sooner or later...things have got to change.....because we are losing valuable time...and time is money...and money....well it helps pays the bills and makes life easier for all of our beloved people, money which our politicians have in PLENTY.

Money which our president has as 2nd richest man of Pakistan, money which he has overseas stashed in swiss bank accounts...Money which he uses to ensure the future of his own and his family.

But....I ask you....what about the future of my own family? YOUR family? What about OUR people who do not have acces to these billions of dollars?

What happens to them?

Think about it people....
 
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When you have 10 Genius , in group and they want to decide on what is best for their welfare they make choices based on their knowledge and wisdom , then all is good and democracy works - the wisdom comes from Schooling and Education

When you have 1 Genius , and 9 idiots , where 1 plans to follow whats right and 9 want to eat burning coal and put in mouth , then they doom all 10 , this model arises with no schooling and wisdom


Democracy does not works when the majority is neanderthals

Education and , conciousness of self and collective is what drives a nation to succed and , in Pakistan that is missing


In Pakistan , the situation is a bit different

You have 1 odd educated person who wishes the best for collective, and he is surrounded by 9 neanderthal gene - lets call them people. Then their a 3rd dynamic and that is that 3-4 other people , in group have access to Guns and they control the distribution of budget they take their share , and then rest goes to the 10 people (1 genius and 9 idiots)

The 9 idiots , know they cannot compete with the 1 genius , so what they do is they play the "Race" and language card , and they divide every thing based on it , so that the odd educated person would never get to Leadership position. The 9 idiots being stupid they also cheat and lie and steal openly because they know they can't achieve this by being honest which also includes buying votes by bags or wheat , rice and sugar


Nations which have 99% education literacy vs Pakistan which has mere 20% in realistic terms
can't be compared

Due the high ratio of Uneducated class in Pakistan Democracy fails and will always fail
 
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