End Game Kashmir?

[Shamain]

So can Pakistanis from other regions(Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan, KPK) buy land and settle in AJK & GB or NOT?

Both in ajk and gb no one can buy except for the gb ajk nationals. But let @unleashed add to it

Do you live in Kashmir? Yet I am sure you have an opinion about the place...the straw-man of geographical distance is best left out of this.

The references that I quoted are as good as any to throw light on the matter. You are simply trying to take advantage of the fact that having denied access to the outside world to Muzaffarabad-Gilgit-Baltistan, there is an acute paucity of authorship on the subject. In that case, it is published accounts, including those from non-Indians that should be taken at face value, and not your understandable denial.

There are more than enough tourism reports published on gb and ajk by western tourists...u can find them on google. Only indians are restricted no one else.

And as of demographics...pakistan has taken in around 1 lakh @fakhre mirpur how many ? Refugees from iok....how come she wll change demographics by removing locals, bringing in nonstate ppl and then giving refuge to kashmiris.....
And then u guys say these are altered demographics ,then u say that pakistan is oppressing same ppl?

 

[SR-91]

First thing India needs to do is remove/change article 370.
2nd Build a wall on LOC.
3rd Play the same game Pakistan is playing.
4th build international pressure.

We need to retake our ENTIRE KASHMIR, (it holds strategic value) we need to, we HAVE to.

 

[Zibago]

First thing India needs to do is remove/change article 370.
2nd Build a wall on LOC.
3rd Play the same game Pakistan is playing.
4th build international pressure.

We need to retake our ENTIRE KASHMIR, (it holds strategic value) we need to, we HAVE to.

So Bismillah jee we Kashmiris are waiting

Both in ajk and gb no one can buy except for the gb ajk nationals. But let @unleashed add to it


There are more than enough tourism reports published on gb and ajk by western tourists...u can find them on google. Only indians are restricted no one else.

And as of demographics...pakistan has taken in around 1 lakh @fakhre mirpur how many ? Refugees from iok....how come she wll change demographics by removing locals, bringing in nonstate ppl and then giving refuge to kashmiris.....
And then u guys say these are altered demographics ,then u say that pakistan is oppressing same ppl?

not sure about pretty 90, s number though it's at least one lakh though the post 90,s refugees number is 32000

 

[dadeechi]

Both in ajk and gb no one can buy except for the gb ajk nationals. But let @unleashed add to it


There are more than enough tourism reports published on gb and ajk by western tourists...u can find them on google. Only indians are restricted no one else.

And as of demographics...pakistan has taken in around 1 lakh @fakhre mirpur how many ? Refugees from iok....how come she wll change demographics by removing locals, bringing in nonstate ppl and then giving refuge to kashmiris.....
And then u guys say these are altered demographics ,then u say that pakistan is oppressing same ppl?

Good to know

 

[Zibago]

What is the point of discussing the history of rulers and their performance prior to the independence? The process agreed upon was to go by the choice given to the princely states to either join India or Pakistan. In case of J & K, Hari Singh chose to sign the accession document to enable the state of J&K to join India.



So what is your view on the solution to the J&K issue?

He was a racist hindu we were muslims, thats the reason why we kashmiris dont accept it

 

[utraash]

What the non ajk residents can't even buy land in ajk stop posting Bulls hit and regions that makeup ajk have a complex history
That video was from loadshedding protests
Protesters run amok in Mirpur - The Express Tribune

most ajkians speak pahari

@Shamain please use the proper name Azad kashmir

Btw it is P.o.k for us no matter how you use cosmetic term for own self patting .... No amount of foul cry of Pakistan can deceive the world.....
In past two months I have been rigorously travelling( around two dozen times ) n meeting local Kashmir youth on very frequent basis which brought two major issue as a main reasons of why Kashmir is not part of mainstream India ....

First n foremost is article 370 which has worsen the life of commoners in jnk instead of giving them any demographic benefit.
Forget about anything else there are only two engineering college in valley for huge Kashmiri engineering aspirants. I have seen huge unemployed youths are now going to other parts of country in the search of job. Infact I have promised a unemployed engineering graduate from infamous Traal region to get some job in Gurgaon.

Second is our successive gov gave a long rope to huriyat n other separatist who are good at brainwashing locals still has some hold in valley. This pussyfooting attitude of our govs has also caused more damage than it benefited.

Good thing is the hollow beats of Kashmiris cause is almost dead in the valley except some sporadic stone pelting exercise by jobless huriyat goons n some youth of down town of Srinagar ....
Ppl want development for their next gen not guns or Pakistanis propaganda to feed themselves.
Army has done brilliant job in the valley but now its a time to image makeover amongst the locals n accommodate the concerns of local ppl....

 

[django]

I think there is already a law that you need interior minister permission to enter ajk and GB if you are an Indian national and they too are rarely issued


I don't know about GB ask @unleashed but they can't buy land in Ajk it's some alienation of land act law

Lets hope this law is adhered too, a minister with the ethics of rehman malik would have no issues giving these visas out like hot cakes.

 

[Jacob Martin]

Both in ajk and gb no one can buy except for the gb ajk nationals. But let @unleashed add to it


There are more than enough tourism reports published on gb and ajk by western tourists...u can find them on google. Only indians are restricted no one else.

And as of demographics...pakistan has taken in around 1 lakh @fakhre mirpur how many ? Refugees from iok....how come she wll change demographics by removing locals, bringing in nonstate ppl and then giving refuge to kashmiris.....
And then u guys say these are altered demographics ,then u say that pakistan is oppressing same ppl?

Hundreds of thousands of tourists visit our side of Kashmir every year, yet Pakistanis claim that Kashmiris are oppressed, blah blah blah. And you cite a few random blog entries (which you claim exist, not that I have seen them) to show that some people may have visited AJK. Did I say no one has visited AJK? What would a foreign tourist know about demographic engineering? Drawing from his tremendous experience in studying demographics? Show me the tourist accounts where it is mentioned that the demographics of AJK anf GB have not been changed by re-settling Punjabis? Don't try to confuse others please.

 

[anant_s]

Btw it is P.o.k for us no matter how you use cosmetic term for own self patting .... No amount of foul cry of Pakistan can deceive the world.....
In past two months I have been rigorously travelling( around two dozen times ) n meeting local Kashmir youth on very frequent basis which brought two major issue as a main reasons of why Kashmir is not part of mainstream India ....

First n foremost is article 370 which has worsen the life of commoners in jnk instead of giving them any demographic benefit.
Forget about anything else there are only two engineering college in valley for huge Kashmiri engineering aspirants. I have seen huge unemployed youths are now going to other parts of country in the search of job. Infact I have promised a unemployed engineering graduate from infamous Traal region to get some job in Gurgaon.

Second is our successive gov gave a long rope to huriyat n other separatist who are good at brainwashing locals still has some hold in valley. This pussyfooting attitude of our govs has also caused more damage than it benefited.

Good thing is the hollow beats of Kashmiris cause is almost dead in the valley except some sporadic stone pelting exercise by jobless huriyat goons n some youth of down town of Srinagar ....
Ppl want development for their next gen not guns or Pakistanis propaganda to feed themselves.
Army has done brilliant job in the valley but now its a time to image makeover amongst the locals n accommodate the concerns of local ppl....

there is one important point that i could make out of your post.
first of all Kashmir must get benefitted from economic boom like any other state in country.
second children must get good education and healthcare, youth must get skill development opportunities (loans for entrepreneurs, jobs for educated and skilled etc) and finally everyone should have a chance to live in peace.
Hurriyat for too long has been playing anti India card and promising a Utopia. let people see for themselves that they have been taken for ride for far too long.
@levina in her OP mentions one important thing, election and democracy being embraced by citizens as tools of change. people have shown courage too move away from Congress and Abdullah family and that tells me that voters wish to use ballot and not bullet as means of changing destiny.
i therefore am not surprised when you say how an average Kashmiri youth feels today. this is his chance to break free from past.
& i wish him luck.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Hundreds of thousands of tourists visit our side of Kashmir every year, yet Pakistanis claim that Kashmiris are oppressed, blah blah blah. And you cite a few random blog entries (which you claim exist, not that I have seen them) to show that some people may have visited AJK. Did I say no one has visited AJK? What would a foreign tourist know about demographic engineering? Drawing from his tremendous experience in studying demographics? Show me the tourist accounts where it is mentioned that the demographics of AJK anf GB have not been changed by re-settling Punjabis? Don't try to confuse others please.

An interesting point to note an average Kashmiri on the Indian side lives a far better quality of life than his Pakistani peer, despite a decade of terrorism backed from the other side of the border.

Kashmir HDI for 2012: 0.626
http://www.epw.in/system/files/pdf/...s_of_Human_and_Child_Deprivation_in_India.pdf

Pakistan HDI for 2013 : 0.537

List of countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Strange isn't it, despite all over evil atrocities / rapes / demographic engineering / 700,000 troops present, a Kashmiri on the Indian side lives a better quality life than an average Indian / Pakistani.

 

[Shamain]

So Bismillah jee we Kashmiris are waiting


not sure about pretty 90, s number though it's at least one lakh though the post 90,s refugees number is 32000

Do u believe instrument ofaccession was a real thing? India till date has never shown its glimpse to anyone and still refuses to.

An interesting point to note an average Kashmiri on the Indian side lives a far better quality of life than his Pakistani peer, despite a decade of terrorism backed from the other side of the border.

Kashmir HDI for 2012: 0.626
http://www.epw.in/system/files/pdf/...s_of_Human_and_Child_Deprivation_in_India.pdf

Pakistan HDI for 2013 : 0.537

List of countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Strange isn't it, despite all over evil atrocities / rapes / demographic engineering / 700,000 troops present, a Kashmiri on the Indian side lives a better quality life than an average Indian / Pakistani.

Someday indians will become intelligent tho i dont pin much hopes. You are comparing the hdi of a state with that of a whole country?!!

U can only compare country vs country and state vs state .....its pure common sensebut ofcourse one has to explain it to an indian. Tch tch.

Hdi is made upof three components : life expectancy at birth, GNI, mean number of school years.

Pakistan hdi is .537 ,india 0.586

Now i would suggest plz google the poverty rates of pakistan and india and see the differnece for yourself.

And btw a quote from your shared report:

‘Unless stated otherwise, all the indicators presented in this paper refer to rural and urban areas combined. Due to data limitations, the north-eastern region (including Assam) is omitted from district-level analyses, as is the state of Jammu and Kashmir. For the same reason, the reference period (unless otherwise specifi ed) is 2001, or the closest subsequent year for which the relevant data are available.‘ lolzz

And lolzz your own guy utraash is writing above that the state has just 2 engineering colleges and there is massive unemplyment in state. Booo!!!!

Hundreds of thousands of tourists visit our side of Kashmir every year, yet Pakistanis claim that Kashmiris are oppressed, blah blah blah. And you cite a few random blog entries (which you claim exist, not that I have seen them) to show that some people may have visited AJK. Did I say no one has visited AJK? What would a foreign tourist know about demographic engineering? Drawing from his tremendous experience in studying demographics? Show me the tourist accounts where it is mentioned that the demographics of AJK anf GB have not been changed by re-settling Punjabis? Don't try to confuse others please.

If kashmir is so peaceful then why is there always curfew in the valley 6 days of the week?

And as of tourists visiting the state.....how does that suggest population isnt oppressed? Do u know the tourists have access to only limited areas in iok...not entire state is open for tourism.

And as of pakistani kashmir:
Again the accounts of those tourists' visits to northern areas were publised with dawn news or other well known publications.....and btw any blog published in the reputed newspapers arent equal to the private blogs. With the newspapers only select and good quality blogs are aired not any random xyz's.

Here is someting for you.

Lavish tourist resort to be built in Gilgit-Baltistan
And i never said that tourists visit the region to verify demographics...my post was in reply to ur comment that gb ajk is a no go area for foreigners. Get that?

Have you heard of rakaposhi peak? How many climbers this lone summit attracts from all over the world? Just google where is it located and via what route you can set out on this summit expedition.

Lastly, as of resettling....lolzzz ok whatever. Btw before partition .... a large number of bhat population from kashmir vlley had migrated down to punjab.... if pakistan had to move punjab population there ...then pakistan would have settled these people to ajk.....because they are very patriotic , support pakistan and come from valley too.

Btw, you didnt answer me why pakistan is taking iok refugees and hosts around 1 lakh of them when she wants to change demographics? You are a troll and not worth my time.

 

[Zibago]

Hundreds of thousands of tourists visit our side of Kashmir every year, yet Pakistanis claim that Kashmiris are oppressed, blah blah blah. And you cite a few random blog entries (which you claim exist, not that I have seen them) to show that some people may have visited AJK. Did I say no one has visited AJK? What would a foreign tourist know about demographic engineering? Drawing from his tremendous experience in studying demographics? Show me the tourist accounts where it is mentioned that the demographics of AJK anf GB have not been changed by re-settling Punjabis? Don't try to confuse others please.

Lol you cant prove the existence if some thing that doesnot exist Ajk, ians speak mostly pahari/potohari and if you guys think that the folks speaking it are Punjabis than a 21 gun salute to you man

 

[Zibago]

We kashmiris know more about demographics of Ajk than Indian hindus

 

[vsdoc]

The weekend comes to a close. High speed corner carving in the ghats in the morning. Divine weather.

A nice single malt nurse session in the afternoon. The rain pitpatting on the rafters outside my window.

And the thread into its 5th page with increasing defencivism from "Kashmiris" from across our border.

From occupied territories.

The expose seems to have hit a nerve.

Long since shielded under the cloak of self righteousness.

Interesting times ahead. The story has more to unfold ....

Goodnight, Doc

 

[Zibago]

The weekend comes to a close. High speed corner carving in the ghats in the morning. Divine weather.

A nice single malt nurse session in the afternoon. The rain pitpatting on the rafters outside my window.

And the thread into its 5th page with increasing defencivism from "Kashmiris" from across our border.

From occupied territories.

The expose seems to have hit a nerve.

Long since shielded under the cloak of self righteousness.

Interesting times ahead. The story has more to unfold ....

Goodnight, Doc

Nope we freed ourself the indian part is the occupied part

We are debunking propoganda by bharti media