End Game Kashmir?

[ZYXW]

Agreed. Kashmir cause, both for India and Pakistan died the day when both went nuclear. The problem we face now is not Kashmir issue itself, rather face-saving deescalation. For whatever it's worth, it's not going to happen in Modi's India............

Only issue that we should focus on to avert an all out war is water issue........ in the end it won't be Kashmir that will result in a nuclear holocaust, rather water.

But the Kashmir conflict- greatly- has to do with the water issue and the insecurities that arise with that for the two countries, as well as the security dilemma. The water and Kashmir issue are deeply connected, so unless the two countries find other ways to sustain their increasing population, Kashmir will in the end be an issue. The CIA released a report that puts the Kashmir issue as the most likely place for WW3 to start and there, it's not just about land, it's also about fresh water, which will prove to be a global problem pretty soon.

Also, forget being the chicken king of asia (not sure if you still have that ambition), I'd recommend investing in water. It will not only be good for you but also for Pakistan. And emperor when you control water, you can easily influence the politics greatly, esp when it starts becoming a scarce resource

 

[dadeechi]

But the Kashmir conflict- greatly- has to do with the water issue and the insecurities that arise with that for the two countries, as well as the security dilemma. The water and Kashmir issue are deeply connected, so unless the two countries find other ways to sustain their increasing population, Kashmir will in the end be an issue. The CIA released a report that puts the Kashmir issue as the most likely place for WW3 to start and there, it's not just about land, it's also about fresh water, which will prove to be a global problem pretty soon.

Also, forget being the chicken king of asia (not sure if you still have that ambition), I'd recommend investing in water. It will not only be good for you but also for Pakistan. And emperor when you control water, you can easily influence the politics greatly, esp when it starts becoming a scarce resource

That is Pakistan's point of view. From Indian point of view, the whole of J&K is part of India based on the accession agreement. Anything less would undermine the whole basis of the formation of India itself. Hence no one in India in their right mind would agree to anything thing short of this.

 

[ZYXW]

That is Pakistan's point of view. From Indian point of view, the whole of J&K is part of India based of the accession agreement. Anything less would undermine the whole basis for formation of India itself. Hence no one in India in their right mind would agree to anything thing short of this.

Nope, actually this is Pakistan's point of view when it comes to what Indians think:

LOL I am only messing with you. But no, I don't agree with the Indian point of view, nor do I entirely agree with the Pakistani. What you have up there, I completely disagree with.

 

[EAK]

indians and there mental masturbations.. choli daman ka sath..

 

[Jacob Martin]

Agreed. Kashmir cause, both for India and Pakistan died the day when both went nuclear. The problem we face now is not Kashmir issue itself, rather face-saving deescalation. For whatever it's worth, it's not going to happen in Modi's India............

Only issue that we should focus on to avert an all out war is water issue........ in the end it won't be Kashmir that will result in a nuclear holocaust, rather water.

Is it necessary to invoke a nuclear threat over everything?

Rubbish, and it's been debunked many times on this forum. What are you going to come out with next, that the Tajiks, Hazara and Uzbeks are not real Afghans? The Phari speaking folks have been there for hundreds of years and the differences between the Koshur speaking Kashmiris are ever so slight. Indian Kashmir also has vast numbers of phari speaking people in Rajouri and Poonch, although not Kashmir, still administered as part of the territory Jammu and Kashmir. Beside Koshir is a Dardic tongue, which is the common family of languages spoken in Pakistan's Northern Areas.



No you got it all wrong. All our native AJK folk know nothing. These guys posting form Gujarat, Mumbai, Calcutta etc have it right, because IBN says so....

Read:

P. Stobdan and D. Suba Chandran, The Last Colony: Muzaffarabad-Gilgit-Baltistan
Paul Beermans, The Human Rights Problem in Gilgit-Baltistan

Also, quoting from a DNA articles - Does the Modi Government have a policy on Kashmir? :
Ironically, the Pakistani Foreign Office’s latest idiotic statement, that they oppose ‘demographic change’ by the return of the Pandits to Kashmir, will rebound on Pakistan. First, it shines the spotlight on the very considerable demographic change that it has already engineered in parts of Pakistani-held Kashmir such as Gilgit-Baltistan, starting from the 1980s and comprising resettlement of Punjabis and Pathans there. This was one of the sparks of the Shia-Sunni conflict that dogged the region for decades.

Confident denial with bluster plays good at home maybe, not so much internationally.

 

[waz]

Read:

P. Stobdan and D. Suba Chandran, The Last Colony: Muzaffarabad-Gilgit-Baltistan
Paul Beermans, The Human Rights Problem in Gilgit-Baltistan

Also, quoting from a DNA articles - Does the Modi Government have a policy on Kashmir? :
Ironically, the Pakistani Foreign Office’s latest idiotic statement, that they oppose ‘demographic change’ by the return of the Pandits to Kashmir, will rebound on Pakistan. First, it shines the spotlight on the very considerable demographic change that it has already engineered in parts of Pakistani-held Kashmir such as Gilgit-Baltistan, starting from the 1980s and comprising resettlement of Punjabis and Pathans there. This was one of the sparks of the Shia-Sunni conflict that dogged the region for decades.

Confident denial with bluster plays good at home maybe, not so much internationally.

Read, and its rubbish. There never has been a demographic change engineered by the state, certainly not in AJK.
As for Gilgit-Baltistan and the adjoining district of Chitral in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province, they have been close to Islamist militant outfits and there has been a spillover—from Afghanistan and the Southern Gorno-Badhakshan region of Tajikistan in the west and north and the Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and FATA regions of Pakistan in the south, who have inflamed sectarian tensions and launched attacked, hence the tension. Sunnis in Gilgit are not Pakhtuns but dardic people. In actual fact Pashto is spoken by less than 7% of the population. Shia folk are the majority and the administration of the region is in the hands of a majority Shia panel.

There is no bluster here, just outright refutations from the native folk of the regions you write about but know nothing about. You're in a similar predicament to likes of Chandran and Stobdan, who also harp on about far away lands whilst sitting in New Delhi.

 

[Jacob Martin]

Read, and its rubbish. There never has been a demographic change engineered by the state, certainly not in AJK.
As for Gilgit-Baltistan and the adjoining district of Chitral in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province, they have been close to Islamist militant outfits and there has been a spillover—from Afghanistan and the Southern Gorno-Badhakshan region of Tajikistan in the west and north and the Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and FATA regions of Pakistan in the south, who have inflamed sectarian tensions and launched attacked, hence the tension. Sunnis in Gilgit are not Pakhtuns but dardic people. In actual fact Pashto is spoken by less than 7% of the population. Shia folk are the majority and the administration of the region is in the hands of a majority Shia panel.

There is no bluster here, just outright refutations from the native folk of the regions you write about but know nothing about. You're in a similar predicament to likes of Chandran and Stobdan, who also harp on about far away lands whilst sitting in New Delhi.

Do you live in Kashmir? Yet I am sure you have an opinion about the place...the straw-man of geographical distance is best left out of this.

The references that I quoted are as good as any to throw light on the matter. You are simply trying to take advantage of the fact that having denied access to the outside world to Muzaffarabad-Gilgit-Baltistan, there is an acute paucity of authorship on the subject. In that case, it is published accounts, including those from non-Indians that should be taken at face value, and not your understandable denial.

 

[Thorough Pro]

LOL, lets first remove you million strong army from the region and see .......

 

[Zibago]

Do you live in Kashmir? Yet I am sure you have an opinion about the place...the straw-man of geographical distance is best left out of this.

The references that I quoted are as good as any to throw light on the matter. You are simply trying to take advantage of the fact that having denied access to the outside world to Muzaffarabad-Gilgit-Baltistan, there is an acute paucity of authorship on the subject. In that case, it is published accounts, including those from non-Indians that should be taken at face value, and not your understandable denial.

Ajk and GB is no go area for foreigners
@Shamain @WAJsal @django
Only Indians have to get special permits if you are not an Indian than there is no restriction on visiting ajk and gb

 

[django]

Ajk and GB is no go area for foreigners
@Shamain @WAJsal @django
Only Indians have to get special permits if you are not an Indian than there is no restriction on visiting ajk and gb

Kudos to your suggestion yaar. Every Indian that enters AK or GB should be considered a potential RAW agent.

 

[dadeechi]

Ajk and GB is no go area for foreigners
@Shamain @WAJsal @django
Only Indians have to get special permits if you are not an Indian than there is no restriction on visiting ajk and gb

So can Pakistanis from other regions(Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan, KPK) buy land and settle in AJK & GB or NOT?

 

[Zibago]

Kudos to your suggestion yaar. Every Indian that enters AK or GB should be considered a potential RAW agent.

I think there is already a law that you need interior minister permission to enter ajk and GB if you are an Indian national and they too are rarely issued

So can Pakistanis from other regions(Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan, KPK) buy land and settle in AJK & GB or NOT?

I don't know about GB ask @unleashed but they can't buy land in Ajk it's some alienation of land act law

 

[dadeechi]

I think there is already a law that you need interior minister permission to enter ajk and GB if you are an Indian national and they too are rarely issued

What is the process for the people who want to travel from Indian side of J&K to Pakistan's AJK & GB and Pakistan's other provinces ? Is the law same for all regions (Valley, Ladakh, Jammu) and religions?

I think there is already a law that you need interior minister permission to enter ajk and GB if you are an Indian national and they too are rarely issued


I don't know about GB ask @unleashed but they can't buy land in Ajk it's some alienation of land act law

Thank! you

 

[Zibago]

That is Pakistan's point of view. From Indian point of view, the whole of J&K is part of India based on the accession agreement. Anything less would undermine the whole basis of the formation of India itself. Hence no one in India in their right mind would agree to anything thing short of this.

The person who signed the deal was a racist Hindu tyrant and we Muslims rebelled against him
Gulab Singh's cruelty

What is the process for the people who want to travel from Indian side of J&K to Pakistan's AJK & GB and Pakistan's other provinces ? Is the law same for all regions (Valley, Ladakh, Jammu) and religions?



Thank! you

The law is different for Indians wanting to travel to other parts of pakistan
There are lakhs of refugees from Indian occupied Kashmir in ajk 30000 of which are post 90,s
The law is different for Kashmiris from ink they are not heavily scrutinized especially if they have family here but most of my relatives from Islamabad occupied Kashmir have never visited Azad Kashmir(except for British nationals) they say that the Indian army on many occasions arrest relatives of Kashmiris who visit Pakistan on the pretext that they have joined seperatists

 

[dadeechi]

The person who signed the deal was a racist Hindu tyrant and we Muslims rebelled against him
Gulab Singh's cruelty


The law is different for Indians wanting to travel to other parts of pakistan
There are lakhs of refugees from Indian occupied Kashmir in ajk 30000 of which are post 90,s
The law is different for Kashmiris from ink they are not heavily scrutinized especially if they have family here but most of my relatives from Islamabad occupied Kashmir have never visited Azad Kashmir(except for British nationals) they say that the Indian army on many occasions arrest relatives of Kashmiris who visit Pakistan on the pretext that they have joined seperatists

What is the point of discussing the history of rulers and their performance prior to the independence? The process agreed upon was to go by the choice given to the princely states to either join India or Pakistan. In case of J & K, Hari Singh chose to sign the accession document to enable the state of J&K to join India.

The person who signed the deal was a racist Hindu tyrant and we Muslims rebelled against him
Gulab Singh's cruelty


The law is different for Indians wanting to travel to other parts of pakistan
There are lakhs of refugees from Indian occupied Kashmir in ajk 30000 of which are post 90,s
The law is different for Kashmiris from ink they are not heavily scrutinized especially if they have family here but most of my relatives from Islamabad occupied Kashmir have never visited Azad Kashmir(except for British nationals) they say that the Indian army on many occasions arrest relatives of Kashmiris who visit Pakistan on the pretext that they have joined seperatists

So what is your view on the solution to the J&K issue?