Egypt signed a deal for CH-5 UAVs with China and joint manufacture of the CH-4

[Gomig-21]

I don't really mind the EAF using them on actual legitimate targets like the verminical ISIS in the Sinai, but the fact that they more often use them to back a war criminal in east Libya is what worries me more. Last week he raided the central bank. And I'm not even joking. Their support for him might actually make more terrorists than eradicate them. For example, 17 people were killed due to airstrikes from Egypt on Derna, which actually kicked the vermin out of their city back in 2015, and most of those killed were children. This might serve to make more terrorists out of those who have previously were indifferent about Egypt and Haftar.

You're right, it's a very dangerous situation but it's pretty clear that Sisi's motives are strictly based on Haftar's commitment to destroy the extremist and terrorists and verminical infestation in Libya. So that basis is good enough to support him and it gives Egypt the green light to hit targets inside Libya and not just Derna. This is also the result of the penetration across the border by many of these scum. It's hard to watch them constantly trying to smuggle weapons and bring cretins across the border and only hit them there. So it becomes essential to go after them inside Libya and especially when the unity government is not addressing the problem, which of course they have much bigger issues on their hands so it's understandable. But you're right, it's a tough choice that the Egyptian government has taken (along with the UAE) which is also heavily involved with us on this front. And you know Sisi has the complete support of Trump and even the Russians and French with these actions, especially after all those innocent Egyptian Christians were barbarically slaughtered. Of course there is doubt that any of those scum who committed that act of atrocity were actually from Derna, and if the attacks on Derna were in fact intel for retaliation of that and other terrorists camping there, but they have to deal with this and hopefully they will limit it to actual targets and try to reduce the human collateral damage, especially innocent people. Even terrorist scum have parents and wives and children who are innocent and don't deserve to be killed. It's a tough situation, no question.

 

[Mhmoud]

You're right, it's a very dangerous situation but it's pretty clear that Sisi's motives are strictly based on Haftar's commitment to destroy the extremist and terrorists and verminical infestation in Libya. So that basis is good enough to support him and it gives Egypt the green light to hit targets inside Libya and not just Derna. This is also the result of the penetration across the border by many of these scum. It's hard to watch them constantly trying to smuggle weapons and bring cretins across the border and only hit them there. So it becomes essential to go after them inside Libya and especially when the unity government is not addressing the problem, which of course they have much bigger issues on their hands so it's understandable. But you're right, it's a tough choice that the Egyptian government has taken (along with the UAE) which is also heavily involved with us on this front. And you know Sisi has the complete support of Trump and even the Russians and French with these actions, especially after all those innocent Egyptian Christians were barbarically slaughtered. Of course there is doubt that any of those scum who committed that act of atrocity were actually from Derna, and if the attacks on Derna were in fact intel for retaliation of that and other terrorists camping there, but they have to deal with this and hopefully they will limit it to actual targets and try to reduce the human collateral damage, especially innocent people. Even terrorist scum have parents and wives and children who are innocent and don't deserve to be killed. It's a tough situation, no question.

Although Haftar himself has had a few scuffles with the verminical Al-Qaeda scum, I believe that the best course of action would be to support the Government of National Accord instead. All Haftar is committed to is power and money. If anybody stands in his way, be it terrorist or peaceful protester, he will not hesitate to kill them. For example, the guys in Derna were the ones who kicked ISIS out of there, saving Egypt from some pretty disastrous presence on its Western border. What Haftar then did was provide them a safe passage to Sirte, where they had a border with the Government of National Accord and carried out attacks in Misrata and elsewhere. Then, the coalition of GNA militias lost over 8000 men to liberate it. He now has weakened the West a bit, increasing his chances of winning.
I believe that Egypt should support the GNA because it is the only one truly committed to driving the scum out, as they know that they are only transitional governments and are doing it for the good of Libya. Haftar's motives, however, are a lot more different. After a successful coup in 1969, an unsuccessful one in 1988, and yet another try in 2014 (which split Libya), I will not be willing to bet that the terrorists at will. I predict that he will even use them as it suits him if it is to his benefit. I believe that his campaign to "destroy the Islamists" is a cover for his aspirations for ever more money and power. Even in his eighties.
Maybe elections held next year might bring in enough mandate to kick him out of the country and Libya and Egypt will be united at incinerating those cockroaches.

 

[Gomig-21]

Although Haftar himself has had a few scuffles with the verminical Al-Qaeda scum, I believe that the best course of action would be to support the Government of National Accord instead. All Haftar is committed to is power and money. If anybody stands in his way, be it terrorist or peaceful protester, he will not hesitate to kill them. For example, the guys in Derna were the ones who kicked ISIS out of there, saving Egypt from some pretty disastrous presence on its Western border. What Haftar then did was provide them a safe passage to Sirte, where they had a border with the Government of National Accord and carried out attacks in Misrata and elsewhere. Then, the coalition of GNA militias lost over 8000 men to liberate it. He now has weakened the West a bit, increasing his chances of winning.
I believe that Egypt should support the GNA because it is the only one truly committed to driving the scum out, as they know that they are only transitional governments and are doing it for the good of Libya. Haftar's motives, however, are a lot more different. After a successful coup in 1969, an unsuccessful one in 1988, and yet another try in 2014 (which split Libya), I will not be willing to bet that the terrorists at will. I predict that he will even use them as it suits him if it is to his benefit. I believe that his campaign to "destroy the Islamists" is a cover for his aspirations for ever more money and power. Even in his eighties.
Maybe elections held next year might bring in enough mandate to kick him out of the country and Libya and Egypt will be united at incinerating those cockroaches.

You make really great points, Mhmoud. I'm glad someone is discussing this part of the war since it hasn't really gotten enough attention on this board, if any.

While it seems like supporting the unity government would be the right thing to do, two things come to mind as to the motives for Sisi's support of Haftar: 1) much better intel on where and what the vermin is up to (much more accurate than any source from the GNA) and 2) the possible after-effects of supporting the side that is against Haftar. Perhaps Sisi and Co. see that prospect as much worst? There might be reason for them to believe that if Egypt supports the GNA, the result from a disgruntled Haftar would be on a higher level, not only on the western border but within Egypt itself?

 

[IblinI]

Any idea of how much does the contract worth?

 

[Mhmoud]

You make really great points, Mhmoud. I'm glad someone is discussing this part of the war since it hasn't really gotten enough attention on this board, if any.

While it seems like supporting the unity government would be the right thing to do, two things come to mind as to the motives for Sisi's support of Haftar: 1) much better intel on where and what the vermin is up to (much more accurate than any source from the GNA) and 2) the possible after-effects of supporting the side that is against Haftar. Perhaps Sisi and Co. see that prospect as much worst? There might be reason for them to believe that if Egypt supports the GNA, the result from a disgruntled Haftar would be on a higher level, not only on the western border but within Egypt itself?

Thank you for your reply.
I believe that it is right to say that a disgruntled Haftar is a lot like a disgruntled Saleh in Yemen. A big problem if there ever was one. But someone as small as Haftar relies wholely on Egyptian and Emirati support for his campaign. Last March, Haftar embarrassed the UAE and Egypt by going to a peace meeting in Cairo, then refusing to meet the Prime Minister Fayez As-Serraj. In response, the two parties withheld their air support from Haftar. In a day, a group called the Benghazi Defence Brigades captured the oil ports from Haftar's forces, eventually taking three-quarters of the Oil Crescent in 3 days. Then people as far away as Ajdabya and Tobruk itself witnessed people going out to fight Haftar's de-facto militias (AKA gangs) and posed a threat to him. After this, the UAE unleashed the full might of its airpower, and Egypt just gave a nudge, which eventually pushed the GNA-allies out of the ports area and everything went back to normal. I believe that if Egypt manages to just bomb Haftar's house or something, he will just run back to hiding in the UAE, as he has done last month when fighting erupted in the city of Benghazi.
I am also worried about the long-term prospects of Libya, if it ever re-unites again. A possible partition would not only be damaging to both the East and the West, but it could essentially make East Libya another 1980s-style Gaddafi Libya, where people starved while Gaddafi was shopping for submarines, and a West which is essentially another larger Tunisia with fewer people. Haftar has also, in his "victory" in driving out the Shura Council of Benghazi revolutionaries, demanded that they should not take any prisoners. The story goes that the Sabiri District in the middle of the city of Benghazi, the BRSC, a group of Islamists, kicked ISIS out of there as well. They were then attacked, Aleppo-style, in the city, where they stayed in total siege for more than 1 year and seven months. They had to build mass-graves for those who were killed in all the shelling and air-strikes. One day, they decided to get the two hundred or so civilians out at all costs, so they mounted a breaking of the siege one February morning. The operation was suicidal, and they lost more than 20 men in a few hours. However, they managed to get the families out, except around forty fighters and civilians, mostly civilians. Those civilians were shot on the spot after they were captured. As a celebration, the Haftarists dug up the grave of a commander of the group and paraded him down the streets, then made an "interview" with him, in a most macabre way. In celebration, they also burned over 40,000 books from the libraries in Benghazi.
The BRSC may contain some verminical cretin, but here, they have the moral high-ground.
I believe that the more important part was the burning of the books. It is a sign that he wants to limit the education and the development of the country. The Khmer Rouge of Cambodia started off by killing all the teachers and intellectuals, even people with glasses. This is because they knew that an inquiring mind is the much more of a threat to them than any person or organisation may pose.
This is why I am scared. This man may well be the end of Libya and a great segment of the Arab world.

 

[Gomig-21]

Any idea of how much does the contract worth?

We'd be more likely to hit the lottery twice in the same day than get that information!

Premise of the article basically says that the Egyptian Air Force is building a fleet of UAV and recently signed a deal for a new shipment of the long range CH-5 drone.

The Egyptian Air Force is already operating Wing Loong & CH-4B, both spotted in Siwa and al-Maliz airbases.

 

[IblinI]

We'd be more likely to hit the lottery twice in the same day than get that information!

Premise of the article basically says that the Egyptian Air Force is building a fleet of UAV and recently signed a deal for a new shipment of the long range CH-5 drone.

The Egyptian Air Force is already operating Wing Loong & CH-4B, both spotted in Siwa and al-Maliz airbases.

Thanks for the reply, also I was wondering why nations like Saudi and Egypt like to operate both CH and Wingloong, wouldn't that cause logistic problem?

 

[Mhmoud]

Thanks for the reply, also I was wondering why nations like Saudi and Egypt like to operate both CH and Wingloong, wouldn't that cause logistic problem?

Drones are normally a lot simpler than full-fledged fighter jets and tanks and other pieces of equipment, meaning that they do not need a lot of supply lines and their parts rarely fail, meaning that they won't cause a logistical problem to any user.

 

[Gomig-21]

Load on paf will go down. Operating costs 24 hours cover to ground forces.

That's exactly why we're doing this in Egypt. Not only are these awesome Chinese drones taking the load off of the F-16 fleet, the strain and the hourly cost, but they're also using the Air Tractor 2 seater prop armed firefighter along with the UAE. Much less costly hour flights and the Egyptian Air Force Academy is churning out pilots left and right for all these platforms. We've seen 1 instance of the Rafales performing missions in Libya although those were more likely escort to the F-16s, and the Hammers those things drop are VERY costly. Plus Rafale is around $15K cost per flight hour. Now there's 12 (out of a possible 46-52) MiG-29M/35 that are in Egypt which might see some action in the near future. But the EAF seems to be overwhelmingly pleased with these awesome Chinese drones. This success should also pave the way for many other contracts for China. It's going to have more orders than it can keep up with!

BTW, according to the article below, Pakistan is one of the users of the CH-5. Not true?

Thanks for the reply, also I was wondering why nations like Saudi and Egypt like to operate both CH and Wingloong, wouldn't that cause logistic problem?

From what I know (and please, correct me if I'm wrong) is that the WingLoong is mostly a lightly armed UAV, and it's role as a reconasaince platform is it's strength, while the CH-5 is a fully armed UCAV with a much greater range. WingLoong is also prop powered while the Rainbow is a turbojet? It is also sleeker, seems stealthier as well as faster and I believe has not only the greater range, but higher altitude. So they'll basically have different functions for different missions for the two. It makes total sense.

WingLoong

CH-5 Rainbow

I like what you guys are saying about the CH-5 compared to the US Reaper.

China’s new CH-5 Rainbow drone leaves US Reaper ‘in the dust’

China has unveiled its deadliest drone so far, with the maker of the unmanned vehicle, which can carry up to 16 missiles, boasting that it would leave the US’s notorious Reaper drone “in the dust”.

The mass-production model of the CH-5 Rainbow, with its 21-metre wingspan and capacity to carry 1,000kg of equipment, made its first flight at an airshow in northern Hebei province last Friday.

Created by the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation mainly to be sold abroad, the drone could cost half the price of a Reaper, experts say. According to Chinese state media, previous drones in the Rainbow series have been sold to countries including Egypt, Burma, Iraq, Pakistan, Nigeria and Saudi Arabia.

Wang Song, an associate professor at Beihang University’s…

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-drone-leaves-us-reaper-in-the-dust-lrs6mwb96

 

[IblinI]

That's exactly why we're doing this in Egypt. Not only are these awesome Chinese drones taking the load off of the F-16 fleet, the strain and the hourly cost, but they're also using the Air Tractor 2 seater prop armed firefighter along with the UAE. Much less costly hour flights and the Egyptian Air Force Academy is churning out pilots left and right for all these platforms. We've seen 1 instance of the Rafales performing missions in Libya although those were more likely escort to the F-16s, and the Hammers those things drop are VERY costly. Plus Rafale is around $15K cost per flight hour. Now there's 12 (out of a possible 46-52) MiG-29M/35 that are in Egypt which might see some action in the near future. But the EAF seems to be overwhelmingly pleased with these awesome Chinese drones. This success should also pave the way for many other contracts for China. It's going to have more orders than it can keep up with!

BTW, according to the article below, Pakistan is one of the users of the CH-5. Not true?



From what I know (and please, correct me if I'm wrong) is that the WingLoong is mostly a lightly armed UAV, and it's role as a reconasaince platform is it's strength, while the CH-5 is a fully armed UCAV with a much greater range. WingLoong is also prop powered while the Rainbow is a turbojet? It is also sleeker, seems stealthier as well as faster and I believe has not only the greater range, but higher altitude. So they'll basically have different functions for different missions for the two. It makes total sense.

WingLoong

CH-5 Rainbow

I like what you guys are saying about the CH-5 compared to the US Reaper.

China’s new CH-5 Rainbow drone leaves US Reaper ‘in the dust’

China has unveiled its deadliest drone so far, with the maker of the unmanned vehicle, which can carry up to 16 missiles, boasting that it would leave the US’s notorious Reaper drone “in the dust”.

The mass-production model of the CH-5 Rainbow, with its 21-metre wingspan and capacity to carry 1,000kg of equipment, made its first flight at an airshow in northern Hebei province last Friday.

Created by the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation mainly to be sold abroad, the drone could cost half the price of a Reaper, experts say. According to Chinese state media, previous drones in the Rainbow series have been sold to countries including Egypt, Burma, Iraq, Pakistan, Nigeria and Saudi Arabia.

Wang Song, an associate professor at Beihang University’s…

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-drone-leaves-us-reaper-in-the-dust-lrs6mwb96

A little correction here, Wingloong and CH belong to different company and CH5's counterpart is Wingloong 2
Which has similar payload, range,etc. Here is a video of Wingloong 2 in the test with different munitions.

 

[The SC]

A little correction here, Wingloong and CH belong to different company and CH5's counterpart is Wingloong 2
Which has similar payload, range,etc. Here is a video of Wingloong 2 in the test with different munitions.

Wasn't the WingLong available for export before the equivalent CH series?

 

[IblinI]

Wasn't the WingLong available for export before the equivalent CH series?

Not sure which came first.

 

[The SC]

Not sure which came first.

WingLong..2008-2010
CH-4B.. end of 2013

 

[IblinI]

WingLong..2008-2010
CH-4B.. end of 2013

Still waiting for the Wingloong 2 to reveal its customers.

 

[The SC]

Still waiting for the Wingloong 2 to reveal its customers.

I think it will have the same customers for new ones and upgrades and some new customers too..

WingLoong 2

WingLoong