Egypt is officially the first customer of the Russian fighter Su-35 in the Middle East and Africa

[Nasr]

The official website of the Russian government contracts and tenders "zakupki.gov.ru" made an announcement yesterday related to the contract for heavy air superiority fighters "Su-35 Flanker-E" signed in 2018 between the Egyptian side and the company "Rosoboronexport" (responsible for arms exports) The Russian companies will supply the "JSC Sukhoi Company" with electrical connectors and cables that will enter the manufacture of the Egyptian fighters at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Factory located in the Khabarovsk Krai entity in eastern Russia.

It is noteworthy that Egypt contracted between 24 - 30 Su-35 fighters with the Russian side during 2018, and the deal was announced for the first time in March 2019, and it is expected that the first batch of fighters will be delivered during the third or last quarter of 2020 By calculating the delay factor due to the Corona epidemic.

https://bit.ly/3dOHZ26

That would be one helluva DACT war-gaming for Egypt. I wonder whether Pakistan could get Egypt to hold DACT with PAF. The EAF now has Rafale (French), Vipers (American), Fulcrums (Russian), Mirages (French), F-7s (Chinese) and Flanker-Es (Russian). That is 6 types of fighter-jets from 4 countries. Now all Egypt needs is the Eurofighter and they would have four types of Gen-4++ fighters in their inventory. Which is impressive, by any view point!!

I just hope that Egyptian Air Force can handle the ergonomic nightmare that comes with the maintenance of so many various aircraft of the same category (fighter-jet).

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Egypt is a rich country..It was mismanaged before... and its military was saving money for almost 30 years..So even if they have saved just $1 billion a year..you can do the math.. it is at least $30 billion saved.. Just $10 billion was spent so far..A lot is still to come..

You mean Saudi akhis paying for the toys.

 

[The SC]

In my post I never said that they(Qatar and Egypt) are equal or similar. In fact I said that Egypt can do better than to follow Qatar's tactics(in terms of defence purchases). U r just finding a reason(that's not there) to vent against Qatar...and I don't want any part of that...so don't put words in my mouth.

Qatar is rich but has a tiny population and hence it relies on protection of other powerful countries. By throwing money at France(Rafale), at Britain/Germany(EFT), at US(F15), etc. Egypt is entirely different and can be a powerhouse in its own right(which is why I'm wondering as to why they don't follow a path that's better in the long run for Egypt's defence needs).

You compared with Qatar.. not me..!
You don't know better that the Egyptian high command about what is best for Egypt's long term defence needs..

If US isn't selling...or selling watered down stuff...why does Egypt continue buying? If we take what u said at face value then it is even dumber for Egypt to continue purchasing defense equipment from US. Just recently Egypt went ahead with a deal worth a billion USD to upgrade it's AH64 attack helicopters...if US is selling less than ideal stuff...then why shouldn't that billion go to purchase more Ka52? And just phase out AH64 over time.

Egypt pays those US weapons from the US military aid..$1.3 billion a year.. no dumb or dumber here..

Okay...and what exactly is the point? The need is for much higher numbers than just a couple of squadrons...and like I said if Egypt settled on two to three platforms...the cost per aircraft would be lower.

Egypt is planning for bigger numbers.. it is just starting.. it was the same with the Mig-21 and the F-16 before..

That's just speculation...in any case to have Su35 and Rafale...while also considering EFT...u don't see the senseless diversification?

It is not senseless if Egypt can't get more Rafale from France..

That's not the role of Typhoon and Rafale...they are not meant to compliment each other. In fact Rafale was the result of France going its own way and not sticking with EFT with other European nations. Both are twin engine delta canards. They have their differences in performance(one being a close coupled canard while the other is not) but in general...all the things one can do with Rafale...can be done with EFT...and vice versa. In short...it would be better to stick with either one or the other...the justification u r giving isn't exactly sound.

That's good...a step in the right direction.

They are almost the same So they can both take on the same missions.. but told you something I guess you did not know before about where they excel most..

Again that justification isn't exactly sound. It would ALWAYS be cheaper and simpler maintenance and logistics wise...to operate 1 to 2 types of aircrafts in more numbers...than smaller numbers of 4 to 5 different aircrafts.

Told you it is easier now.. when you have highly qualified technicians..you can have 1 sort of aircraft or 10 sorts.. it is all computerised.. it is not a garage like thing..

You mean Saudi akhis paying for the toys.

HaHaHa.. you mean you have a comprehension problem..Akhi..lol

That would be one helluva DACT war-gaming for Egypt. I wonder whether Pakistan could get Egypt to hold DACT with PAF. The EAF now has Rafale (French), Vipers (American), Fulcrums (Russian), Mirages (French), F-7s (Chinese) and Flanker-Es (Russian). That is 6 types of fighter-jets from 4 countries. Now all Egypt needs is the Eurofighter and they would have four types of Gen-4++ fighters in their inventory. Which is impressive, by any view point!!

I just hope that Egyptian Air Force can handle the ergonomic nightmare that comes with the maintenance of so many various aircraft of the same category (fighter-jet).

There will certainly be joint exercises covert or overt or both..
They must have thought about the maintenance too..don't you think so?

 

[Cookie Monster]

You compared with Qatar.. not me!

I didn't compare the two countries...U did...bringing up their population and history. I was talking about defense purchases ONLY and how they(Egypt) DONT NEED to go the route that Qatar takes.

You don't know better that the Egyptian high command about what is best for Egypt's long term defence needs

By that reasoning neither do u...so then what is the point of this discussion...this forum should then cease to exist.

Now coming back to reality...and why this forum exists...
..it is so members interested in defense related matters can discuss...and learn from each other. If u wish not to partake in that discussion...u could simply tell me and we can stop this back and forth.

Egypt pays those US weapons from the US military aid..$1.3 billion a year.. no dumb or dumber here..

The Apache upgrade deal that was mentioned in various news sources was of $2.3 billion. I assumed that Egypt is footing the bill for that difference of a billion dollars...hence why I mentioned it. Unless u r saying that US is paying for the whole thing?

Egypt is planning for bigger numbers.. it is just starting.. it was the same with the Mig-21 and the F-16 before.

Again more speculation...
...I have no crystal ball and can't see the future. I'm basing it off of what is.

It is not senseless if Egypt can't get more Rafale from France..

U mean that US opposition due to SCALP missile? Okay that could be a valid reason...still there are way too many fighter jet types in Egyptian airforce that can be reduced.

They are almost the same So they can both take on the same missions.. but told you something I guess you did not know before about where they excel most..

I don't think u added anything. I've read countless Rafale vs EFT comparisons...and they both have adequate capabilities to get the job done. Most airforces around the world stick to either one or the other.

Told you it is easier now.. when you have highly qualified technicians..you can have 1 sort of aircraft or 10 sorts.. it is all computerised.. it is not a garage like thing..

Regardless of whether it is computerised or not...it is a simple fact that it is much easier and COST EFFECTIVE to have less variety and more numbers.

 

[The SC]

I didn't compare the two countries...U did...bringing up their population and history. I was talking about defense purchases ONLY and how they(Egypt) DONT NEED to go the route that Qatar takes.

By that reasoning neither do u...so then what is the point of this discussion...this forum should then cease to exist.

Now coming back to reality...and why this forum exists...
..it is so members interested in defense related matters can discuss...and learn from each other. If u wish not to partake in that discussion...u could simply tell me and we can stop this back and forth.

The Apache upgrade deal that was mentioned in various news sources was of $2.3 billion. I assumed that Egypt is footing the bill for that difference of a billion dollars...hence why I mentioned it. Unless u r saying that US is paying for the whole thing?

Again more speculation...
...I have no crystal ball and can't see the future. I'm basing it off of what is.

U mean that US opposition due to SCALP missile? Okay that could be a valid reason...still there are way too many fighter jet types in Egyptian airforce that can be reduced.

I don't think u added anything. I've read countless Rafale vs EFT comparisons...and they both have adequate capabilities to get the job done. Most airforces around the world stick to either one or the other.

Regardless of whether it is computerised or not...it is a simple fact that it is much easier and COST EFFECTIVE to have less variety and more numbers.

You seem too much stuck in your own thoughts..and just want to argue "for the sake of conversation".. about subjects you are not well versed in.. you are adding nothing here..

 

[Cookie Monster]

I wasn't involved in your debate just saying they needed potent 4th gen fighters with modern tech and thus Rafale and Su35 suit them. Egypt is not a rich country , it gets help from allies to fund these purchases but they do build a lot of their military equipment. Fighter jet program is not possible for them without large funding and cooperation with US, EU, Russia or China.

Saudis/Gulf Arabs on other hand need equipment more urgently and only recently started putting emphasis on local industry, they will need more time before we start seeing extordinary progress.

Okay if Egypt is not a rich country then it's even more a reason not to have a couple of squadrons of each jet that's available.

If they need help from allies to purchase defense equipment..then what better way forward than to have synergy. For example KSA bought EFT...Egypt could also have gone for the same jet in numbers.

That was the whole point I was making...it costs more per jet and more in logistics and pilot training to have fewer numbers of 5 different types of fighter jets for example...as compared to more numbers of 2 to 3 different types.

You seem too much stuck in your own thoughts..and just want to argue "for the sake of conversation".. about subjects you are not well versed in.. you are adding nothing here..

So far u have given me nothing concrete...
U just throw around general statements as if that PROVES ur point...
1) U said Egypt is going to pay for the Apache upgrade with US Aid
...I asked u...in that $2.3 billion deal to upgrade Apaches...where does the extra billion come from considering that US military aid to Egypt is about $1.3 billion.
--> Ur response: "Arguing for the sake of argument"

2) U said that "when you have highly qualified technicians..you can have 1 sort of aircraft or 10 sorts.. it is all computerised.. it is not a garage like thing"
...another generalized statement with no figures or numbers to backup anything. Even though it is a generally accepted fact that too much diversity in defense equipment can be a logistical nightmare and it costs more.

3) U keep speculating that Egypt WILL buy more in numbers in the future...
...for which I can't even ask u for proof I suppose since it hasn't even happened

Avoiding an explanation and not giving accurate numbers when questioned(1)...making generalized statements that go against conventional wisdom(2)...and supporting an argument on future events that have yet to take place(3)
...sure...let's just say "I'm arguing for the sake of argument"

No need to quote me further. It was my fault I started this conversation.

 

[Mkhizar]

1 Rafale
2 F-16
3 Mirage-2000
4 MiG-29
5 Rafale
6 Su-35 (if the deal is made)

Honorary mention

7 Mirage-V

Not to forget 50 Mig - 35s contract signed earlier by Egypt...

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

If we consider the mig21s retired we have as frontline fighters the Rafale, F16,Mig29, Su35,Mirage2k...and they're talking about buying EFT to....

They lack bvr with F-16 which is the backbone of their air force.

 

[The SC]

Okay if Egypt is not a rich country then it's even more a reason not to have a couple of squadrons of each jet that's available.

If they need help from allies to purchase defense equipment..then what better way forward than to have synergy. For example KSA bought EFT...Egypt could also have gone for the same jet in numbers.

That was the whole point I was making...it costs more per jet and more in logistics and pilot training to have fewer numbers of 5 different types of fighter jets for example...as compared to more numbers of 2 to 3 different types.

So far u have given me nothing concrete...
U just throw around general statements as if that PROVES ur point...
1) U said Egypt is going to pay for the Apache upgrade with US Aid
...I asked u...in that $2.3 billion deal to upgrade Apaches...where does the extra billion come from considering that US military aid to Egypt is about $1.3 billion.
--> Ur response: "Arguing for the sake of argument"

2) U said that "when you have highly qualified technicians..you can have 1 sort of aircraft or 10 sorts.. it is all computerised.. it is not a garage like thing"
...another generalized statement with no figures or numbers to backup anything. Even though it is a generally accepted fact that too much diversity in defense equipment can be a logistical nightmare and it costs more.

3) U keep speculating that Egypt WILL buy more in numbers in the future...
...for which I can't even ask u for proof I suppose since it hasn't even happened

Avoiding an explanation and not giving accurate numbers when questioned(1)...making generalized statements that go against conventional wisdom(2)...and supporting an argument on future events that have yet to take place(3)
...sure...let's just say "I'm arguing for the sake of argument"

No need to quote me further. It was my fault I started this conversation.

OK if that makes you feel better.. but go through the whole thread first and maybe you'll find the answers in my posts responding to other posters.... no need to argue since you are acting like some spy..who needs numbers and reports to satisfy his employers..While the answers are clear and to the point.. maybe you are blinded by something.. but let's stop it here for now..

 

[ziaulislam]

The official website of the Russian government contracts and tenders "zakupki.gov.ru" made an announcement yesterday related to the contract for heavy air superiority fighters "Su-35 Flanker-E" signed in 2018 between the Egyptian side and the company "Rosoboronexport" (responsible for arms exports) The Russian companies will supply the "JSC Sukhoi Company" with electrical connectors and cables that will enter the manufacture of the Egyptian fighters at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Factory located in the Khabarovsk Krai entity in eastern Russia.

It is noteworthy that Egypt contracted between 24 - 30 Su-35 fighters with the Russian side during 2018, and the deal was announced for the first time in March 2019, and it is expected that the first batch of fighters will be delivered during the third or last quarter of 2020 By calculating the delay factor due to the Corona epidemic.

https://bit.ly/3dOHZ26

Its a poltical move..sisi wants maximum support ..it has nothing to do with country defense ..its a nightmare to operate so many types...
So now USA france russia are all in its bag..
Next will buy something from china lol

 

[Cookie Monster]

OK if that makes you feel better.. but go through the whole thread first and maybe you'll find the answers in my posts responding to other posters.... no need to argue since you are acting like some spy..who needs numbers and reports to satisfy his employers..While the answers are clear and to the point.. maybe you are blinded by something.. but let's stop it here for now..

Lol so I'm a spy now? Bcuz I asked u about where the other billion is going to come from in that 2.3 billion deal?
Idk how u became an elite member not knowing how to debate and discuss. U thought u could just throw out sweeping statements and make future predictions to convince others of ur viewpoint?

I'm not blinded by anything. I was just curious as to why Egypt isn't getting MORE bang for the buck. In any case...no point in discussing it with u.

Its a poltical move..sisi wants maximum support ..it has nothing to do with country defense ..its a nightmare to operate so many types...
So now USA france russia are all in its bag..
Next will buy something from china lol

Why talk reason...I tried making the same point but to no avail.

 

[The SC]

Lol so I'm a spy now? Bcuz I asked u about where the other billion is going to come from in that 2.3 billion deal?
Idk how u became an elite member not knowing how to debate and discuss. U thought u could just throw out sweeping statements and make future predictions to convince others of ur viewpoint?

I'm not blinded by anything. I was just curious as to why Egypt isn't getting MORE bang for the buck. In any case...no point in discussing it with u.

Why talk reason...I tried making the same point but to no avail.

Because my answer about the other billion is already in this thread.. means you don't read.. So I see you are here to troll.. then keep your reason for someone else..

Its a poltical move..sisi wants maximum support ..it has nothing to do with country defense ..its a nightmare to operate so many types...
So now USA france russia are all in its bag..
Next will buy something from china lol

Why not if you can hit 2 birds with one stone..
But you still did not specify what support you are talking about..!

 

[Cookie Monster]

Because my answer about the other billion is already in this thread.. means you don't read.. So I see you are here to troll.. then keep your reason for someone else

This whole time I have been misled...I had no idea that asking a genuine question and sticking to the thread topic was trolling.

 

[SABRE]

Not to forget 50 Mig - 35s contract signed earlier by Egypt...

That contract, from what I know, did not take place. Egypt seemed interested in MiG-35 but ended up going for MiG-29.

 

[FuturePAF]

Its a poltical move..sisi wants maximum support ..it has nothing to do with country defense ..its a nightmare to operate so many types...
So now USA france russia are all in its bag..
Next will buy something from china lol

I agree, they will try to replace their F-7s and buy something new from China, but won’t want to go for something top shelf as not to harm relations with the west after having bought so much high end western Equipment. The western equipment is a show of how much the Egyptians are in the Western camp, not for full on war fighting except against local rebels.

If they buy Block 3 JF-17 we will know they are a decent workhorse platform, but if they buy the J-10 they are going for deeper ties with China.

On the other hand, in the current political, the Egyptians will probably buy nothing, as the west is trying to confront China, and Egypt does want to be seen as any where near that conflict