Egypt | Army Ousts Mursi govt, violence erupts | News & Discussions

[BLACKEAGLE]

take it easy on the bullsh it. the wahabis are people too.
and most muslims are becoming wahabis they are not extremists its jus some people.[/QUOTE

You may be but the people of Egypt say otherwise - so on the BS meter, I defer to you

Speaking of BS, I'm not sure if you're confusing MB with Saudi regime. Again, MB hate GCC regimes guts except for Qatar. And come here, how dare you talk in the name of Egyptians? Egyptian uprising is to great to get soiled with this BS.

 

[pkuser2k12]

yaar why are we are discussing non pakistani siasat here? i mean pak media?



excuse me but why bring MQM here? MQM performed in two areas, foreign overseas pakistanis and ports and shipping, for overseas pakistanis, the call rates got cheaper and got voting rights

for ports and shipping we got better performance since last time

so you cant blame MQM for the ills of ANP and PPP

and thats the exact reason why MQM gained even more seats while others lost

everyone knows how they got their mandate

 

[Silverblaze]

This kind of rigidity is - 22million Egyptians - ring ring 22 million

Mr. muse you cannot get 'amused' by protests.

Their economic troubles were genuine as Morsi appointed incompetents in his ranks.

But rolling back democracy is not right.

When the hardliner islamic groups show up with larger crowds as was the case with Tunisia, what would you do?

The Egyptian army is here to be blamed, why did they give an ultimatum, they could have led reconciliation.

Egypt is going no where.

Sudan is an example of how to have good relations with GCC and Iran at the same time.

Isn't Oman a better example?

 

[farag]

Mr. muse you cannot get 'amused' by protests.

Their economic troubles were genuine as Morsi appointed incompetents in his ranks.

But rolling back democracy is not right.

When the hardliner islamic groups show up with larger crowds as was the case with Tunisia, what would you do?

The Egyptian army is here to be blamed, why did they give an ultimatum, they could have led reconciliation.

Egypt is going no where.



Isn't Oman a better example?

Or Pakistan.

 

[darkinsky]

everyone knows how they got their mandate

please keep these rants to yourself you are now avoiding reply your own post

forget it

 

[Silverblaze]

Or Pakistan.

You are joking right?

 

[Cheetah786]

the people of eygpt are a majority Wahhabi.

Is that why MB won the election?

 

[Frogman]

The Egyptian army is here to be blamed, why did they give an ultimatum, they could have led reconciliation.

The army had set up reconciliation talks between the brotherhood and the opposition for the past 6 months. The presidency refused to attend and then the opposition followed suit after the insult. The military also gave a week for reconciliation before the 30th of June, the presidency refused and Mursi came out with a 3 hour speech which was frankly insulting to the nation and the institution itself. After that the military gave 48 hours for reconciliation and the presidency didn't act. They released another speech which was insulting and threatened violence. The MB and the presidency had chances they didn't act.

 

[Cheetah786]

There is no Iranian ambassador to expel from Egypt.
It is Egypt's benefit to keep KSA and Iran at the same time.

By the way, Iran has not invested a dime in Egypt. Why did you see otherwise?

By Brian M Downing

The uprisings of the Arab Spring have been supported in the West and many other countries as well. The tide is seen as welcome, inevitable, and essential to placing the region on a proper political and economic track.

That view, however, is not shared in Saudi Arabia. The view from Riyadh is that the uprisings are a threat to the principle of royal authority, incompatible with a well-ordered society, and a danger to Saudi national security, especially in regard to its opposition to Shi’ism and Iran.

The House of Saud sees the tide of democracy as neither good nor inevitable nor irreversible. Riyadh will use its influence and wealth to roll back democracy. Failure to do so, in Riyadh’s view, will weaken its rule and strengthen Shia power in the Gulf and beyond. Halting democracy, then, is a moral and strategic imperative. The campaign is likely already underway.

The Saudis will find many allies inside the frail new democracies. Figures of the old regimes are still ensconced in key parts of the state and economy.

The new regimes face the painstaking task of removing them from these commanding positions, but what the old regimes accomplished through fiat and purges, the new ones must try to do within legal restraints. This, of course, gives old regime judges considerable influence in the transition as recent events in Egypt have shown.

Many generals too were key parts of the old regimes. They wield tremendous power and enjoy the respect of large parts of the public. They may be especially attuned to Saudi overtures of restored power and future greatness.

Riyadh can win support from religious groups as well. Many clerics see democracy as part of the baleful process of modernization and secularization that breaks down sacred norms and spreads western outlooks.

Rural-dwellers are more pious than city-dwellers and they do not look favorably on the openness and turbulence set loose in recent months. The past of them retains a patina of tradition and propriety compared to the uncertainty of the future.

The militantly anti-western sects known as Salafists represent Saudi Arabia’s most passionate potential allies. They have definite affinities with the Wahhabi sect of Saudi Arabia; their clerics and adherents attend Saudi schools. Salafi militancy is chiefly ideological in nature, but it has formed armed groups.

Salafi forces were central to the anti-coalition insurgency in Iraq and continue to oppose Shia rule. They are also parts of the Syrian rebellion which is on the verge of ousting the Assad government. Egyptian Salafis hurriedly patched together a political movement after President Mubarak’s ouster last year and won 25 percent of the popular vote in recent elections.

Observers noted their generous gifts to the poor in the weeks before the vote but were at a loss to determine how they afforded such largesse. Suspicion naturally fell on Riyadh.

Efforts to stifle democracy will have adverse consequences that the Saudis would be unwise to ignore. Large swathes of the new Middle East, from Morocco to Iraq, will add counterrevolution to the faults of the House of Saud, which already include decadence, impiety, and only intermittent attention to the Palestinian cause.

The U.S. and EU will resent Saudi attempts to halt democratization. Reform-minded youth in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, and the Emirates will be deeply annoyed by Riyadh’s counterrevolutionary program and their own governments’ complicity in it. They may be emboldened to take firmer steps to end autocracy in their countries.

Further, supporting armed Salafi groups in Syria and in Sunni parts of Iraq can burden the region with violent, destabilizing forces for years to come. Saudi Arabia seeks to channel their zeal and talent toward its ends, but such groups may prove unmanageable and their allegiance to Riyadh may be short-lived.

Brian M Downing is a political/military analyst and author of The Military Revolution and Political Change and The Paths of Glory: War and Social Change in America from the Great War to Vietnam. He can be reached at brianmdowning@gmail.com.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

By the way, Iran has not invested a dime in Egypt. Why did you see otherwise?

I never said Iran had invested a thing in Egypt Sir. I'm saying that they spent tons on the MB itself.

Sudan is an example of how to have good relations with GCC and Iran at the same time.

Are you seriously trying to compare Egypt with Sudan? You can't be serious, are you?

I'm afraid but Egypt is too valuable for us.

 

[fallstuff]

the tyrant eygptian army can destroy this democratically elected government but they cant destroy the peoples will. viva islam viva the people of Egypt.




what my egptian friend said is that the people love morsi, these protestors are a joke secularists notice the tone of the media on this its pathetic and unfair, they are covering these secularists while ignoring the counter protests

I did manage to get a copy of the dreaded new Constitution, here are some excerpts.

CONSTITUTION PREAMBLE


We, the people of Egypt,
In the name of the merciful God and with his aid,
declare this to be

Our Constitution, the document of the 25th of January revolution, which was started by our youth, embraced by our people, supported by our Armed Forces;

Having rejected, in Tahrir Square and all over the country all forms of injustice, oppression, tyranny, despotism, exclusion, plunder and monopoly;

Proclaimed our full rights to “bread, freedom, social justice, and human dignity,” paid for by the blood of our martyrs, the pain of our injured, the dreams of our children, the strife of our men and women;

Recovered the spirit of our great civilization and our luminous history, for on the banks of the timeless Nile we established the oldest state that has always known the meaning of citizenship and equality, gave humanity the first alphabet, opened the way to monotheism and the knowledge of the Creator, embraced God’s prophets and messages, and adorned the pages of history with parades of creativity;

And in continuation of our virtuous revolution which has unified all Egyptians on the path of building a modern democratic state, we declare our adherence to the following principles:

One —
The people are the source of all authorities. Authorities are instituted by and derive their legitimacy from the people, and are subject to the people’s will. The responsibilities and competencies of authorities are a duty to bear, not a privilege or a source of immunity.

Two —
A democratic system of government, establishing the grounds for peaceful transfer of power, supporting political pluralism, ensuring fair elections and the people’s contribution in the decision-making process.

Three —
The individual’s dignity is an extension of the nation’s dignity. Further, there is no dignity for a country in which women are not honored; women are the sisters of men and partners in all national gains and responsibilities.

Four —
Freedom is a right: freedom of thought, expression and creativity; freedom in housing, property and travel; its principles laid down by the Creator in the motion of the universe and human nature.

Five —

Equality and equal opportunities are established for all citizens, men and women, without discrimination or nepotism or preferential treatment, in both rights and duties.

Six —

The rule of law is the basis of the individual’s freedom, the legitimacy of authority, and the state’s respect of the law. No power shall override that of righteousness, and the judiciary shall be independent, bearer of the honorable mission of defending the Constitution, upholding justice, and preserving rights and freedoms.

Seven —

Upholding national unity is an obligation, and the cornerstone of building a modern Egypt and the path to progress and development. To that end, the values of tolerance and moderation shall be spread, and the rights and freedoms of all citizens shall be protected without discrimination.

Eight —

Defending the nation is a duty and an honor. Our Armed Forces form a professional and neutral national institution that does not interfere in political affairs. It is the protective shield of the country.

Nine —

Security is a great blessing; it falls on the shoulders of a police force which works in the service of the people, for their protection and to enforce the measures of justice. For there can be no justice without protection, and no protection without security institutions that respect the rule of law and human dignity.

Ten —

Unity is the hope of the Arab nation; it is history’s call, the future’s bid, and destiny’s demand. Such unity is to be reinforced through the integration and fraternity with countries of the Nile Valley and of the Muslim world, both a natural extension borne out of the distinctiveness of Egypt’s position on the global map.

Eleven —

Egypt’s pioneering intellectual and cultural leadership is an embodiment of its soft power, and a model of the free generosity of original creators and thinkers, universities, science centers, linguistic and research centers, the press, the arts, literature and mass media, the national church, and Al-Azhar with its history as a mainstay of national identity, the Arabic language and Islamic Sharia, and as a beacon for moderate enlightened thought

 

[Silverblaze]

The army had set up reconciliation talks between the brotherhood and the opposition for the past 6 months. The presidency refused to attend and then the opposition followed suit after the insult. The military also gave a week for reconciliation before the 30th of June, the presidency refused and Mursi came out with a 3 hour speech which was frankly insulting to the nation and the institution itself. After that the military gave 48 hours for reconciliation and the presidency didn't act. They released another speech which was insulting and threatened violence. The MB and the presidency had chances they didn't act.

True.

But should that have induced a coup and abrogation of the constitution of Egypt? Egypt is not a city state like Singapore where you can topple an entire govt at the drop of a hat.

Egypt is the largest country in the Arab world ok.

If negotiations failed, they should have tried again and again.

Egyptian army has conducted an unconstitutional act and has demolished democratic institutions.

 

[farag]

I never said Iran had invested a thing in Egypt Sir. I'm saying that they spent tons on the MB itself.



Are you seriously trying to compare Egypt with Sudan? You can't be serious, are you?

I'm afraid but Egypt is too valuable for us.

Just an example to say why don't you tell Sudan or Pakistan to cut the relations with Iran.

 

[BATMAN]

When will Pakistan show the islamicans the same as the brave people of Egypt?

When have you seen Islamicians ruling Pakistan?

 

[shuntmaster]

When will Pakistan show the islamicans the same as the brave people of Egypt?

Who is not an Islamist party in Pakistan apart from MQM and ANP?