EDEX 2018: Egypt eyes JF-17 Thunder Block-III

[Nashab]

We have kept our enemy on toe. Just imagine what we would have done with your enemy which is tiny and an embarrassment for your “Mighty Egypt”. Have you forgotten how your neighbour jordan asked for PAF pilots and how our Pilot SaifulAzam fu’ked up IAF jets ?

Saif Al-Din Al-Azeem is honored by the leader of King Hussein College (then), Brigadier Pilot Yusef Al-Hunaity. Al-Hunaity is currently the Chairman of the Jordanian Joint Staff

 

[Abdelrahman]

Well , recently I was reading an interview with one of IIRGC commander . He stated that they (IIRGC) don't welcome too many drone types because any new drone will require training of new pilot operator , providing specialize weapon , new control system , providing different type of spare parts which in time of need will become logistic nightmare and reduce the force capability to operate effectively . So IIRGC want to operate only one type of drone in any field ...

If maintaining and operating different kind of drones is logistical and operational nightmare, then the situation will be worst in manned combat aircraft field ...

Egypt has too many aircraft, which will drain her resource .... Rafael , Mig 35 , Su-30 , .... all of these are multi role fighters , Egypt should only choose one and buy 100-150 of chosen aircraft to reduce it long term spending ...

Again. We have trust issues with depending on only one main supplier. Just watch what Russia is doing with its allies. They are humiliating the Syrians without giving them anything while being attacked by the Israelis day and night. They wanna keep them enslaved and always in need for Russia. All of that and this is Russia which is way more trusted than the Americans.

 

[Turan09]

Again. We have trust issues with depending on only one main supplier. Just watch what Russia is doing with its allies. They are humiliating the Syrians without giving them anything while being attacked by the Israelis day and night. They wanna keep them enslaved and always in need for Russia. All of that and this is Russia which is way more trusted than the Americans.

A fair point... But the answer must be producing your own jet, just like how Pakistan did it. Truth is, you can't win a war with all this different kind of jets. Even their communication will be a problem. Let alone all this spare parts, and maintenance issue...

 

[The SC]

A fair point... But the answer must be producing your own jet, just like how Pakistan did it. Truth is, you can't win a war with all this different kind of jets. Even their communication will be a problem. Let alone all this spare parts, and maintenance issue...

First.. It is obvious you didn't know that Egypt has its own C4i for decades now and most likely upgraded to C5i now that integrated all weapon platforms, air, land and sea ones..on top of military satellites.. So now you should know that integrating all the airforce fighter planes is done in Egypt with not much difficulties ..so no issues there..
Second.. Spare parts are usually bought in big quantities with the initial deals and most of the time they come with ToT to be manufactured locally.. mostly those parts that get used quickly.. As for maintenance, the old issues are gone long time ago, since any modern fighter computer can tell and pinpoint to the technicians what part or parts are faulty, so they go directly there to change of fix it..Gone the days of checking every piece of the airplane to try to find the faulty parts.. now it is 1000 times faster to fix a fighter plane's part after the automatic diagnosis which is permanently updated by the plane's computer..
And third there is a 90% chance that Egypt will start manufacturing the JF-17 blk3 through China and Pakistan.. as soon as it is thoroughly tested and approved..

 

[Turan09]

First.. It is obvious you didn't know that Egypt has its own C4i for decades now and most likely upgraded to C5i now that integrated all weapon platforms, air, land and sea ones..on top of military satellites.. So now you should know that integrating all the airforce fighter planes is done in Egypt with not much difficulties ..so no issues there..
Second.. Spare parts are usually bought in big quantities with the initial deals and most of the time they come with ToT to be manufactured locally.. mostly those parts that get used quickly.. As for maintenance, the old issues are gone long time ago, since any modern fighter computer can tell and pinpoint to the technicians what part or parts are faulty, so they go directly there to change of fix it..Gone the days of checking every piece of the airplane to try to find the faulty parts.. now it is 1000 times faster to fix a fighter plane parts after the automatic diagnosis which is permanently updated by the plane's computer..
And third there is a 90% chance that Egypt will start manufacturing the JF-17 blk3 through China and Pakistan.. as soon as it is thoroughly tested and approved..

You talk nice... I must admit that, but the realty on ground doesn't support you.
''Government of Egypt to refurbish forty-three (43) AH-64E Apache attack helicopters for an estimated cost of $2.3 billion''
When I saw this Apache deal, it was weird. Helicopters were new, why you would spent 2.3 billion dollars to ''refurbish'' them? The answer I got is, engines of the Apache's are dead. Because of the lack of necessary maintenance, this brand new beasts were damaged, and remind you, this happened in peace time. And funny part is it will repeat itself if egypt doesn't fix it's own problem.
This is the same for jets... stock spare parts as much as you want, without a back up, maybe you can resist for a year or two, and that's it.
PS; You still don't see my point. Yes you might buy JF17. Maybe you will buy another 24 or 50 jets, and you think this will fix the problems? No. This time you gonna need new facilities. New maintenance workers and so on. And if you try to play smart by not buying necessary equipment you are gonna need more dollars just like this Apache deal.
All we need is to think. Is there any other nation except egypt that buys so many different types of jets? Perhaps India is a little bit closer but even they didn't brought that many... And we should ask ourselves. Is Egypt and India posses a greater knowledge than rest of the world? I think we all know the answer.

 

[The SC]

You talk nice... I must admit that, but the realty on ground doesn't support you.
''Government of Egypt to refurbish forty-three (43) AH-64E Apache attack helicopters for an estimated cost of $2.3 billion''
When I saw this Apache deal, it was weird. Helicopters were new, why you would spent 2.3 billion dollars to ''refurbish'' them? The answer I got is, engines of the Apache's are dead. Because of the lack of necessary maintenance, this brand new beasts were damaged, and remind you, this happened in peace time. And funny part is it will repeat itself if egypt doesn't fix it's own problem.
This is the same for jets... stock spare parts as much as you want, without a back up, maybe you can resist for a year or two, and that's it.
PS; You still don't see my point. Yes you might buy JF17. Maybe you will buy another 24 or 50 jets, and you think this will fix the problems? No. This time you gonna need new facilities. New maintenance workers and so on. And if you try to play smart by not buying necessary equipment you are gonna need more dollars just like this Apache deal.
All we need is to think. Is there any other nation except egypt that buys so many different types of jets? Perhaps India is a little bit closer but even they didn't brought that many... And we should ask ourselves. Is Egypt and India posses a greater knowledge than rest of the world? I think we all know the answer.

- Again you did not understand the Apache deal.. 10 are new ..43 are old and being upgraded to a better version.. they were Apache D now they are Apache E Guardian..

Egypt to upgrade Apaches to AH-64E standard

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/2020/05/12/eefaf364-91de-4095-8e38-0edc28f05c58

- Egypt won't buy the JF-17 blk III.. it is going to manufacture it locally..

- You jumped the ToT part about spare parts.. sorry but you seem not very fluent in military affairs.. Just read my previous post again..

 

[Turan09]

- Again you did not understand the Apache deal.. 10 are new ..43 are old and being upgraded to a better version.. they were Apache D now they are Apache E Guardian..

Egypt to upgrade Apaches to AH-64E standard

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/2020/05/12/eefaf364-91de-4095-8e38-0edc28f05c58

- Egypt won't buy the JF-17 blk III.. it is going to manufacture it locally..

- You jumped the ToT part about spare parts.. sorry but you seem not very fluent in military affairs.. Just read my previous post again..

Again perhaps I wasn't clear with what I said, gonna repeat myself with more basic words.
This Apache deal is not a ''modernization'' You know this word right? ''modernization'' What you doing with Apache is ''remanufacture'' And you are gonna pay billions (US's military aid actually) because you damaged the helicopters, is it more clear now?

''Assembling'' is not ''producing'' you know this words too right? Or you can look at to dictionary if you need. Even if you do this, which it is questionable because egypt normally just buys without local Assemble, Rafale is an example. And even if you do that, so what? I ignored this part, simply because it doesn't mean anything. We did the same with F16s in 80's... Heck we even assembled egyptian f16s here is Turkey. Assembling the existent parts means nothing.
Now, answer my question, does Egypt and maybe India posses a greater knowledge than rest of the world? The answer is simple as that.
The words you need to know, ''modernization'' - ''remanufacture'' - ''Assembling'' - ''Producing''

 

[The SC]

Again perhaps I wasn't clear with what I said, gonna repeat myself with more basic words.
This Apache deal is not a ''modernization'' You know this word right? ''modernization'' What you doing with Apache is ''remanufacture'' And you are gonna pay billions (US's military aid actually) because you damaged the helicopters, is it more clear now?

''Assembling'' is not ''producing'' you know this words too right? Or you can look at to dictionary if you need. Even if you do this, which it is questionable because egypt normally just buys without local Assemble, Rafale is an example. And even if you do that, so what? I ignored this part, simply because it doesn't mean anything. We did the same with F16s in 80's... Heck we even assembled egyptian f16s here is Turkey. Assembling the existent parts means nothing.
Now, answer my question, does Egypt and maybe India posses a greater knowledge than rest of the world? The answer is simple as that.
The words you need to know, ''modernization'' - ''remanufacture'' - ''Assembling'' - ''Producing''

OK go learn them first and come back to discuss it..
And don't forget to read the article again ..it is from Jane defense..they say upgrade to the Apache E Guardian standard..which is the latest..and if Egypt could upgrade the Apache Ds purchased in 2003 and 2010 it means they are in a good state..otherwise new ones would have been purchased..

I don't know why I smell jealousy in your comments!
You can try to hide it but the more you come out, the more it shows..

 

[Turan09]

OK go learn them first and come back to discuss it..
And don't forget to read the article again ..it is from Jane defense..they say upgrade to the Apache E Guardian standard..which is the latest..and if Egypt could upgrade the Apache Ds purchased in 2003 and 2010 it means they are in a good state..otherwise new ones would have been purchased..

I don't know why I smell jealousy in your comments!
You can try to hide it but the more you come out, the more it shows..

Your comment about jealousy is kind of funny... Do you remember before Sisi egypt was one of our costumers of Turkish Defence Industry, right? Because I do remember.
Just gonna let it sink in...
The words you need to know, ''modernization'' - ''remanufacture'' - ''Assembling'' - ''Producing'' When you understand the difference of this words, we will be in the same page.

 

[The SC]

Your comment about jealousy is kind of funny... Do you remember before Sisi egypt was one of our costumers of Turkish Defence Industry, right? Because I do remember.
Just gonna let it sink in...
The words you need to know, ''modernization'' - ''remanufacture'' - ''Assembling'' - ''Producing'' When you understand the difference of this words, we will be in the same page.

Nope it was turkey contracting under US..it happened once with F-16s and they had to go back to the US for final assessments and delivered to Egypt from the US.. just get your facts right..

 

[Turan09]

Nope it was turkey contracting under US..it happened once with F-16s and they had to go back to the US for final assessments and delivered to Egypt from the US.. just get your facts right..

egypt was first country who interested with Anka and actually, they were gonna order 10 Drones. Same for some MRTP Class boats.
About F16s, this happens when you buy your weapons from US by ''FMS'' channel. (Foreign Military Sales) Long story short, your weapons first must handed to US army ( army, navy or airforce) , and after US army got it officially, it will ''gift'' it to you.
We used FMS channel in 80s...
And this is arab, some more military info for you.

 

[The SC]

egypt was first country who interested with Anka and actually, they were gonna order 10 Drones. Same for some MRTP Class boats.
About F16s, this happens when you buy your weapons from US by ''FMS'' channel. (Foreign Military Sales) Long story short, your weapons first must handed to US army ( army, navy or airforce) , and after US army got it officially, it will ''gift'' it to you.
We used FMS channel in 80s...
And this is arab, some more military info for you.

You are repeating after me the Arab..like a Parrot.. just to feel a lil' important.. OK then
See! told you the more you come out, the more you expose your hidden feelings.. Now it came out again with "Gift"..ignoring the Camp David accord.. where Usrael gets double in FMS..OK Turk?

 

[XTQ1999]

if Egyptian JF-17s are equipped with Chinese BVR missiles and cruise missiles, they will be way more advanced than their limited F-16, JF-17 is a perfect platform it terms of cost to replace a large fleet of F-16s

 

[IblinI]

what, this is just a rumor right?

 

[The SC]

I though saudis were financing the rafales and migs were being given from Russia ..
Why jf17 ..odd

Means you were wrong in your thoughts..