East Turkestan / Uighur movement

[EjazR]

Islamically, there is no justification for opposing the govt. as long as there is freedom of religion. The Uighurs should work within the Chinese laws and demand greater freedom of religion, to preach and practice their religion freely.

 

[oceanx]

Would you say that Afghanistan needs to be freed from the Taliban?
They are burning girl's schools.

Indeed, ROC flag-bearers can be surprisingly "nationalistic" - food for thought ...

What does the "Ummah" want? How does the "Ummah" feel about xxxx? I have seen variations of that question posed in sincerity time and time again. I am sure everybody from the State Department to Vladimir Putin to the EU President would like a "definitive" answer.

Well so does every other non-Muslim in the world it seems nowadays.

A member of the "Ummah" gave out an honest answer to an "inconvenient" question. IMO this is not the time to "turn the table" in the direction of the "Taliban", "Internecine conflicts among Arabs", "Kurdish rights", "Coptic rights", etc, etc ...

And a neo-Marxist feel-good answer is not going to suffice either IMHO.

The answer calls for introspection, and not panic among some who are "friends" of Pakistan.

Now let me ask - what do the Chinese want? Seems we'll first have to define the term (never thought that would be a problem anyone?) In truth it's much easier to state what the "Chinese" don't want. Ditto for "Jews", "Christians", "Indians", just about any identifiable or self-identifiable group one can put forth IMO.

They don't want to be "victims". And they want both self-respect and be respected (two seem inversely related at times)

Unfortunately, the "Ummah" sees the "Ummah" as the victim these days more often than not. The "Ummah" isn't adept at discerning nuances, however, the "Ummah" also cannot ignore the obvious.

But in the end, does the "Ummah" know what the "Ummah" wants? We are not sure.

Who interpret events for the "Ummah"? Who shape strategies for the "Ummah"? These are more salient questions IMO.

Even among the most egalitarian of societies, there is a "Khassa" and there is an "'ammah" (borrowing from the "Arabists"). Clearly PRC (to a comparable or lesser extent Russia) catches a break from the "Khassa" and this is frankly and widely acknowledged. And it's IMO not just because the majority Hui Muslims are relatively well-integrated into China's general fabric (by popular conception they are even more "secular" than their counterparts in India and registers little on the "Ummah"'s overall radar).

Why the PRC "gets a break" is for the "West" to introspect.

Some if it is no doubt "tactical", but probably not all.

I have one clue (perhaps bordering on the facetious but what the hey): the West (aspires or claims) to treat everybody as equally well, but some are - or are perceived to be treated better than others; whereas the CCP (at least allegedly) "strives" to treat everybody as "equally badly" ...

Now a non-facetious "elephant in the room" (not necessarily a "white elephant" either): If what the Ummah's true heart's desire is the resurrection of a Eurasian "superstate" encompassing the "core" of "Dar al-Islam" (which may or may not follow the classic model of a "nation state", and which has no reason why it couldn't be "secular" and "tolerant" - contrary to "hype" and "fear"), what will China's role be? Both conscientiously and surreptitiously?

These questions no doubt figure prominently in the minds of thinking "Khassa" - from Pakistan to Iran to Turkey ...

And Turkey is interesting (not just as far as the Uighurs are concerned).

So is of course Iran.

My humble 2 cents.

 

[no_name]

Indeed, ROC flag-bearers can be surprisingly "nationalistic" - food for thought ...

I just don't like unnecessary violence on the civilians. It does not solve problem. You and me are civilians, no one wants to be the victim.

Where has empathy gone in this world?
When war starts, it's the common people who are the losers.

regards,

 

[Hutchroy]

The Muslim population was about 90-95% in 1949 when China took over and it is now below 50%

Uighurs and China's Xinjiang Region

Han Migration
Growing job opportunities in Xinjiang have lured a steady stream of migrant workers to the region, many of whom are ethnically Han. The Chinese government does not count the number of workers that travel to Xinjiang, but experts say the local Han population has risen from approximately 5 percent in the 1940s to approximately 40 percent today. These migrants work in a variety of industries, both low tech and high tech, and have transformed Xinjiang's landscape. In June 2008, the BBC produced a photo report called Life in Urumqi, which said Xinjiang's capital had recently witnessed "the arrival of shopping centres, tower blocks, department stores and highways."

Ethnic Tension
The Chinese government says Xinjiang is home to thirteen major ethnic groups. The largest of these groups is the Uighurs, who comprise 45 percent of Xinjiang's population, according to a 2003 census. Like many of these groups, the Uighurs are predominantly Muslim and have cultural ties to Central Asia.

At Pakistani President Musharraf’s last visit to China he guaranteed the Chinese that Pakistan will no more allow the Uighurs to use Pakistan as an Operation base for their activites.

I believe that covertly some of the Pakistani extremist groups are still supporting the Uighur Freedom Movement.

 

[oceanx]

I just don't like unnecessary violence on the civilians. It does not solve problem. You and me are civilians, no one wants to be the victim.

Where has empathy gone in this world?
When war starts, it's the common people who are the losers.

regards,

I have no disagreement with you on that, no_name. Xinjiang definitely had the potential of becoming another Chechnya once you look closely into the situation.

Reasons are complex. As an aside, a Taiwanese like yourself can perhaps appreciate how an internecine conflict can get out of hand and grow into something bigger ... and continue to fester for decades or perhaps longer (ala 2.28 ...)

I will tap into the sentiment and verbatim expressed by the mighty Righteous Fire on another, unrelated thread where s/he articulated better than I ever could:

"When due rights are not appreciated, brotherhood changes into contempt, contempt to anger and anger to hatred ..."​

BTW, when I said "nationalistic" - I meant something else and I think you know what I mean ... if you have any confusion on that then forget that I said it.

 

[no_name]

Hi,

I didn't say I disagree or that the blame is to be placed on some party.

But I do not like people to think that I will support everything China do blindly for the sake of 'It's China' or 'We're Chinese'. I am aware the CCP is trying to limit the fallout of a ethnic conflict and that it is not as evil and hell bent on causing rift as people claimed.

What I really don't want is for people to see my flags and have inherent assumptions about me.

I know you mean good by the word nationalist. It's not really about what you'll think but what others who read this post might think. My explanation is more for them rather than you. No offense taken

regards,

 

[MilesTogo]

Yes there is a large portion of Pakistani's who do as there has been much contact between Uighurs and Pakistani's in our history. Just because GoP takes orders from China doesn't apply to the rest of us. I support East Turkestan all the way mates. Can't speak for the larger "ummah" as I am not a mind reader.

I have never seen any discussion on this topic in whatever little Pakistani press I follow.

 

[oceanx]

...
But I do not like people to think that I will support everything China do blindly for the sake of 'It's China' or 'We're Chinese'. I am aware the CCP is trying to limit the fallout of a ethnic conflict and that it is not as evil and hell bent on causing rift as people claimed.

Dude, if I am not supporting the PRC "blindly" on many, if not a majority of accounts, why in the name of xxxx would I expect you to?

...
I know you mean good by the word nationalist. It's not really about what you'll think but what others who read this post might think. My explanation is more for them rather than you. No offense taken
regards,

If you know me at all you'd know I would never have equated being "nationalistic" with being simply "good". It's entirely "situationally-dependent". But do feel free to exculpate away ...

No offence was intended - truly.

 

[no_name]

Hey no harms done. By the way I wrote 'good' as mean good intention not just literally being good.

Anyway back to topic

 

[Sino-PakFriendship]

It is based on what is right. I can speak in the same manner for Tibetans. Where there is injustice being done to a group of people to subjugate them, especially if there has been historical friction it is quite obvious some people need liberating. Even U.S. as well as UN state mechanisms believe in liberating the masses to enjoy personal freedoms. So I'm standing in the mainstream with these beliefs.

Should China free the Malaysian Chinese from Malaysian muslim extremists and Indonesian China from Indonesian muslim extremist?

Should India free the Indian from Malaysian muslim extremists?

Should China + Greece + Armenia free Armenia, Kurds, Cypriots from Turkey?

 

[Kompromat]

Indians have found a new topic for creating conspiracy

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Should China free the Malaysian Chinese from Malaysian muslim extremists and Indonesian China from Indonesian muslim extremist?

Should India free the Indian from Malaysian muslim extremists?

Should China + Greece + Armenia free Armenia, Kurds, Cypriots from Turkey?

They are free to try, the consequences might not be to their liking.

 

[Sino-PakFriendship]

Islamically, there is no justification for opposing the govt. as long as there is freedom of religion. The Uighurs should work within the Chinese laws and demand greater freedom of religion, to preach and practice their religion freely.

many of them do this,

like Uyghur Online and Xinjiang students Online in Inland

Most of Uyghur are secular muslim, even World Uyghur Congress doesn't want to link with Al Qaeda.

I warn against Turkey, Al Qaeda, AQIM or any Islam extremists don't intervene with Xinjiang. OR you will suffer great loss.

To combat with terrorism, China is more effective than USA.

I also don't want to see some Indian trolls to alienate Sino-Pakistani relationship.


Also, there is only place Xinjiang, no place for East Turkistan!

China is not USSR, also not Yugoslavia. Unity is foundation of China. No one even USA can split China!

 

[Sino-PakFriendship]

Indians have found a new topic for creating conspiracy

I never object to Uyghur human right, but I strongly object to someone using Human Right issue to split our state!


There are many states trying to split China in the past:

UK
France
Jap
USA
Tzar Russia / USSR


Except Tzar Russia / USSR ceded our 1M sq. km of territory, other 4 almost failed to do so!


How about small Turkey???



(Taiwan pro-green are very happy on Kosovo declaration of independence in early 2008, however, Kosovo don't want to establish deplomatic relationship with Taiwan.

Also maybe Taiwanese forget which state issued motion to expel Taiwan (Republic of China) and allow People's Republic of China to UN in 1971.

The answer is Albania, brother state of Kosovo.)

 

[Kompromat]

I also don't want to see some Indian trolls to alienate Sino-Pakistani relationship.

This is what they call " Cold start Strategy