DRDO to complete feasibility study for AMCA project in 18 months

[sancho]

it can be donE examples are : dhruv and lCH.

That are exactly the counter argument, because we done it right at these projects by learning from foreign countries first (Dhruv design co-developed by Germany, engine co-developed by France) and then started to do things alone.
If we would do it the same way, we first co-developm FGFA with the Russians and learn about NG techs and capabilities, that we simply don't have, then try to develop something alone later. But that's not the case right? We hardly started FGFA and want to start AMCA at the same time? Not going to work that way!

 

[Basanti]

That are exactly the counter argument, because we done it right at these projects by learning from foreign countries first (Dhruv design co-developed by Germany, engine co-developed by France) and then started to do things alone.
If we would do it the same way, we first co-developm FGFA with the Russians and learn about NG techs and capabilities, that we simply don't have, then try to develop something alone later. But that's not the case right? We hardly started FGFA and want to start AMCA at the same time? Not going to work that way!

brother sancho, i get what you are saying.. but look at it this way, it is not just about if we can make it or will we make it. it is about putting all the things needed there.. I believe AMCA is only a capability building measure. i am pretty sure the MoD has realised that dependence on foreign goods is not the way.. also, it is much better if we have the capability to build something on our own.. AMCA is just one of those attempts.. look at it this way, we analyse, we do the research, we build all the things necessary to develop a 5th gen fighter., in the end, we have the capability.. just like we did with the lca.. We have developed immense capabilities while doing the LCA.. all the way from designing an airframe to trying to manufacture an engine to manufacturing of electronics systems.. AMCA will just be a step ahead.. Plus, with all the capabilities we have acquired through LCA, i believe that AMCA will be on a much better track( since we already have experience in designing a gen 4 fighter) and a parallel joint project FGFA going on.. many of the techs in FGFA will seep into AMCA.. Also, the price of the FGFA will be pretty high.. AMCA will give us numbers advantage.. Since we can make it cheap if we want to.. A cheaper single engined 5th gen AMCA is the way to go..

 

[Basanti]

plus, AMCA can have a Huuge export market..

 

[faithfulguy]

But do we have to compete with these countries? We have a stealth fighter co development anyway, that's what S. Korea and Japan don't have, that's why they now try to develop something on their own. The more important point for us imo is, that we get a steady growth, not only in our economy, but also in indigenous development capabilities, but that doesn't meant we must go from 50 km/h to 200 in the next step!
We must get LCA MK1 and 2 ready and field them into operational service, get as much potential out of MMRCA and most importantly FGFA and use these projects to gain for futher LCA upgrades, or AURA UCAV development.
AMCA in between all these projects is neither needed, nor useful, because it diverts resources and manpower away from those projects that are more important. AMCA as a tech demonstrator to improve indigenous R&D capabilities is not a bad idea, but as a 2nd stealth fighter for Indian forces, besides all these projects, it's the wrong way to go!

I totally agree with you. This should just remain a research project to grow the engineers instead of something that will be used. The technical level of India need to be raised first before worry about building something that will stick to the time line and be useful once its out. Anything useful should be on imported and joint venture at this poit. The needs of a nations arm forces should not be base on the pride of the people, but grounded in reality.

 

[faithfulguy]

who said AMCA will be 5th gen only??? May be by the time it is out from production line, its 5+?? As the time will go on, there will be more and more research in new fields. And by 5+ i mean, much more advance mission computer and composites eytc.... lets hope for best

I think it would be a 5+ when other countries are coming out with 6 generation.

The reality is that India is technically behind and it needs planes. That is why this project should proceed as technology demonstrators and India should do joint venture with the US for F-35 to fulfill its light weight 5th generation combat plane.

 

[faithfulguy]

brother sancho, i get what you are saying.. but look at it this way, it is not just about if we can make it or will we make it. it is about putting all the things needed there.. I believe AMCA is only a capability building measure. i am pretty sure the MoD has realised that dependence on foreign goods is not the way.. also, it is much better if we have the capability to build something on our own.. AMCA is just one of those attempts.. look at it this way, we analyse, we do the research, we build all the things necessary to develop a 5th gen fighter., in the end, we have the capability.. just like we did with the lca.. We have developed immense capabilities while doing the LCA.. all the way from designing an airframe to trying to manufacture an engine to manufacturing of electronics systems.. AMCA will just be a step ahead.. Plus, with all the capabilities we have acquired through LCA, i believe that AMCA will be on a much better track( since we already have experience in designing a gen 4 fighter) and a parallel joint project FGFA going on.. many of the techs in FGFA will seep into AMCA.. Also, the price of the FGFA will be pretty high.. AMCA will give us numbers advantage.. Since we can make it cheap if we want to.. A cheaper single engined 5th gen AMCA is the way to go..

but I would suggest GoI to keep on eye open to purchase a 5th generatoin fighter from some where. Look at how long it takes to buy MRCA. This process should also be streamlined when time comes and AMCA is not ready.

 

[ramu]

I think the offsets of the current deals like the MRCA will have a positive impact on the domestic ecosystem to develop and productize new technology. Let us see how it goes. If Indians make up thr mind, nothing is impossible.

 

[kingdurgaking]

First of all this is a feasible study and DRDO will submit a report to IAF and GoI about there capabilities and what and all have to be imported... secondly please dont under estimate DRDO.. there are already some labs doing research on stealth... one such first step product is LCH... even FMBT is going to incorporate lot of stealth features..

 

[Basanti]

I think the offsets of the current deals like the MRCA will have a positive impact on the domestic ecosystem to develop and productize new technology. Let us see how it goes. If Indians make up thr mind, nothing is impossible.

10 billion dollars is a lot of money.. We shouldnt be throwing that money away this quick.. Why not induct LCA in pretty good numbers?? around 450-500 and then push money into AMCA and create specific agency like NPOL that can do specific research on radars and warning systems??
NPOL has done an amazing work in Naval Warning Systems
Naval Research Board

Doing this will help a lot in our future projects

 

[alpha proton]

.........................................

 

[ganimi kawa]

Naval Research Board

Nice link dude! Some great info on that site!

 

[shaktiman2010]

If we would do it the same way, we first co-developm FGFA with the Russians and learn about NG techs and capabilities, that we simply don't have, then try to develop something alone later. But that's not the case right? We hardly started FGFA and want to start AMCA at the same time? Not going to work that way!

We have already learnt one generation of technology from LCA design and testing in last 15 years. There is no need to keep repeating same thing again and again for every product you make. MRCA is nothing but waste of money. It was a foolish idea to begin with, just because IAF was scared in their pants and wasn't ready to trust Indian brains.

There is something called "trusting in your on capabilities" and walking on your own feets.

LCA has given enough experience to Indians on how to design a plane on paper and craft it in factory and fly it in air. Whatever remains are irrelevant parts, they are achievable and no big deal.

Stealth is not a big thing for Indians. India is not in Pak-FA project for grabbing Stealth technology. In India's FGFA version, stealth will be given by DRDO.

 

[prototype]

That are exactly the counter argument, because we done it right at these projects by learning from foreign countries first (Dhruv design co-developed by Germany, engine co-developed by France) and then started to do things alone.
If we would do it the same way, we first co-developm FGFA with the Russians and learn about NG techs and capabilities, that we simply don't have, then try to develop something alone later. But that's not the case right? We hardly started FGFA and want to start AMCA at the same time? Not going to work that way!

agreed 100 % on that,that was the same mistake we done with LCA project,we tried to indigenious things when we hardly had any expertise in this field and were actually beginning from scrap,yrs later we were performing the same mistake,here we r trying to directly jump one generation ahead again with no formal experience,it would be better to wait untill the FGFA is over,untill then concentrate more on projects like LCA.

 

[shaktiman2010]

agreed 100 % on that,that was the same mistake we done with LCA project,we tried to indigenious things when we hardly had any expertise in this field and were actually beginning from scrap,yrs later we were performing the same mistake,here we r trying to directly jump one generation ahead again with no formal experience,it would be better to wait untill the FGFA is over,untill then concentrate more on projects like LCA.

LOL!

my dear friend, if you had experience, it wouldn't be called "R&D".

Secondly, why don't Russians wait till Aliens come and teach them how to design 5th Generation plane, just because they don't trust their own brains?

And lastly, only mistake India committed was, not beginning LCA earlier. Delaying AMCA would be even bigger blunder. The technology gap will go up very fast and FGFA can't replace any home-based R&D.

 

[prototype]

LOL!

my dear friend, if you had experience, it wouldn't be called "R&D".

Secondly, why don't Russians wait till Aliens come and teach them how to design 5th Generation plane, just because they don't trust their own brains?

And lastly, only mistake India committed was, not beginning LCA earlier. Delaying AMCA would be even bigger blunder. The technology gap will go up very fast and FGFA can't replace any home-based R&D.

Lol

My friend,experience is a part of this R@D,its just like u r manufacturing bicycles and one one day jumped to produce space shuttles,now do u get what one mean by experience.

technology gap?do India even have a proper stealth testing lab?

India directly jumped from Marut to tejas and the result was 20 long yrs(this is what i call exp),the same mistake they r committing with AMCA programme,they still need 6 more yrs for developing the Mark 2 of tejas,on that speed I am really counting on AMCA