DRDO, Army, kick-backs

[punit]

There is no debate on whether DRDO has failures. There have been. But to turn around and say everything is the fault of the DRDO is being foolish. The problem arises on projects where there is a need for the IA to work with the players involved. Like the developer, producer and integrator. For this there needs to be commitment not just from the MoD, but also the IA. The reason why IN is rapidly building ships in India and Indian shipyards are full, is because they take ownership of the project development alongwith the teams involved. Which the IAF is doing now, but, the IA fails at every instant.

the real problem is complete lack of accountability in DRDO projects.

 

[Indian Patriot]

hose high ranking officials who handles this section are corrupt.they root for some foreign companies,pushes their product and gets massive benefits

Show the proof here instead of ranting like a demented parrot.

Where is the proof that army officers take bribe and are corrupt. If the army is so corrupt then all the infiltrators in Kashmir need to enter India with gold coins with which they can buy their safe passage.

Show proof or just refrain from polluting this thread with your stupidity.

 

[GR!FF!N]

Spoken like a novice who does not have a clue on ground realities. Unfortunately trolls like you are the majority in Indian group.

Army cannot stick to specifications laid down ten years back for the simple reason technology keeps EVOLVING. What was modern in 1990 will become obsolete in 2000. This very simple fact flies over the head of the worthless scientists and babus in DRDO because they get their jobs because of politics and not merit.

The army is satisfied with T-90, SMERCH, Tavor-21 because these weapons are up-to-date with the demands of modern battlefield while DRDO built arjun, insas and pinaka are either obsolete or not worth the time and money of the Indian army. And both nag and namica are yet to be inducted because DRDO is a loser.

Army has a duty to uphold the national security. And if you cannot prove that the Indian army is corrupt then it is best that you stop making a fool of yourself. Show proof that the army is corrupt. Let every Indian poster here claim like you that the Indian army is corrupt and they are compromising national security by side-tracking DRDO and back their claims with proof if you are so confident about your silly delusions.

DRDO is the symbol of mediocrity, corruption, incompetence and worthlessness.

Do you know the list of problems with T-90 and Smerch??and you're comparing Tavor with INSAS??Tavor is a new gen gun.Tavor entered into service in 2009.

somebody,please educate this poor soul..

@MilSpec @sancho @Major Shaitan Singh

 

[surya kiran]

the real problem is complete lack of accountability in DRDO projects.

Yes there are problems in accountability in some DRDO projects. But blanket blaming is not required. Like say Trishul flopped. Yes it did. But the rest succeeded. Accountability also should give rise to deserving appraisals. Which is being seen now.

 

[Indian Patriot]

the real problem is complete lack of accountability in DRDO projects.

The real problem is lack of accounatbility in DRDO plus lack of intelligent and competent staff. Almost entire DRDO is full of losers who cannot even design a screwdriver never mind a sophisticated weapon. They all got their jobs through political connections or by paying bribes. It is after all a sarkari office and every sensible Indian knows how corrupt they are.

The DRDO is a threat to national security and for the sake of safe-keeping their jobs and feeding their families they are willing to compromise on national security.

Why is no foreign country interested in DRDO made weapons? Even the mighty USA has purchased surveillance drones from Pakistan but no US military arm is interested in DRDO.

 

[punit]

You expect a firm to make something new,you should take it into consideration.DRDO and HAL are not companies like Boeing and Lockheed Martin,who makes everything from civilian jets to Spaceship.

I'm not arguing against new features.Its of course is needed.Every product gets designed that way where you can incorporate newer techs easily.But Every Army works this way-They induct what was ordered and then after few time,modifies it.If RAF would argue that they're not going to induct Eurofighter without sophisticated A2G capabilities,it'd not serve frontline atleast till 2019.Same goes for Rafale as well.and thats where concepts of "Batch" or "Tranche" come.

See,The demand of "Modification" and "Upgradation" is a continuous process.But for IA and IAF's unrealistic demands,the product gets stuck into Infinite Loop.

if DRDO and HAL are not Boeing or Lockheed then they should not act like them. problem is DRDO without realising its own capability jumps into everything and makes life difficult for others as well their own.

Just like Modification and Upgradation .. indigenization should also be a gradual process. The only remedy is to make DRDO a purely research org and leave the actual production to pvt players.

 

[GR!FF!N]

Show the proof here instead of ranting like a demented parrot.

Where is the proof that army officers take bribe and are corrupt. If the army is so corrupt then all the infiltrators in Kashmir need to enter India with gold coins with which they can buy their safe passage.

Show proof or just refrain from polluting this thread with your stupidity.

Increasing rate of corruption in India Army | Sulekha Creative

Is corruption wide spread in the military? » Indian Defence Review

Corruption in armed forces: How extensive is the rot? - Firstpost

Army’s war within: corruption : Inside Story

Corruption in Indian Armed Forces: 72 officers sold their weapons for profit - Army | Indian Defence Forum

This site has dozens of links...

Corruption in India's Defence Deals: A Case Study on Business and Government Ethics | Chakraborty | TIJ's Research Journal of Social Science & Management - RJSSM

if DRDO and HAL are not Boeing or Lockheed then they should not act like them. problem is DRDO without realising its own capability jumps into everything and makes life difficult for others as well their own.

Just like Modification and Upgradation .. indigenization should also be a gradual process. The only remedy is to make DRDO a purely research org and leave the actual production to pvt players.

That decision lies with Government.they started these projects when there was only them in this market.Tell me,how many Private cos are in this market,even now...they're mainly confined in vehicles or in similar sections only.

But now you can see the silver lining..after 2 decades or more,DRDO and HAL is coming with high quality products,and hopefully,they'll continue to do sne Example,Just look at the Missile Sector,UAVs or Radar and other Sensors.In fact,major projects like Arjun and Tejas are finally on right track.the thing is,these Organisations suffered massivly under sanction as well,and these projects suffered a massive delay for that reason as well.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Do you know the list of problems with T-90 and Smerch??

And what is the problem with T-90 and SMERCH? Of course it would be a miracle if you can define the problem in words but you will only troll around here because you trolls have smileys not facts to back your stupidity.

Why is no country interested in Pinaka? Brazil is able to sell their rocket systems to countries like UAE. Turkey is able to sell weapons to UAE. Pakistan has a better record in weapons export. Why is not a single country interested in the sh1t produced by DRDO? Here is a hint - because DRDO makes sh1t.

and you're comparing Tavor with INSAS??Tavor is a new gen gun.Tavor entered into service in 2009.

Again you expose your stupidity and ignorance on military matters. I don't understand why PDF allows trolls like you into military forums when you should be playing with your nappies.

INSAS is a 5.56 caliber rifle and universally all 5.56 mm rifles have some things in common.

1. It weighs lighter than a 7.62 caliber weapon.

2. It carries 30 rounds.

3. It has capability of providing suppression fire.

The very logic of using the lighter 5.56 mm round was so that soldiers can carry more ammunition to the battlefield. Being a lighter round the recoil is lesser than the 7.62 mm and hence the control over the weapon is easier which in turn provides better accuracy. A 5.56 in full auto will be more accurate than a 7.62 in full auto and this small factor helps immensely in CQ combat and anti-insurgency warfare.

Now for the INSAS.

1. It weighs slightly more than the 7.62x51 SLR.

2. It can carry only 20 round magazines.

3. It has no suppressing fire.

4. It has problems of double-feeding and loss of zero after cleaning

5. I hope you know what is meant by loss of zero.

6. It is unreliable and breaks down after firing too many rounds.

It doesn't matter when the Tavor was inducted. INSAS is a failure on multiple counts and shows the worthless and incompetent culture of defence PSUs.

And oh, by the way it was inducted into service in 2001 not 2009. At least learn to lie properly.

 

[surya kiran]

Do you know the list of problems with T-90 and Smerch??and you're comparing Tavor with INSAS??Tavor is a new gen gun.Tavor entered into service in 2009.

somebody,please educate this poor soul..

@MilSpec @sancho @Major Shaitan Singh

He has been provided with the CAG report and all facts. Refuses to read. And has serious comprehension problems. Stop trying to educate him. He already 'knows' his stuff.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Increasing rate of corruption in India Army | Sulekha Creative

Is corruption wide spread in the military? » Indian Defence Review

Corruption in armed forces: How extensive is the rot? - Firstpost

Army’s war within: corruption : Inside Story

Corruption in Indian Armed Forces: 72 officers sold their weapons for profit - Army | Indian Defence Forum

This site has dozens of links...

Corruption in India's Defence Deals: A Case Study on Business and Government Ethics | Chakraborty | TIJ's Research Journal of Social Science & Management - RJSSM

You are posting mere speculation not proof. And tom d1ck harry can pen down a few lines on the internet.

Bofors was proof of corruption, Kargil coffin scam was proof of corruption. In which court is the case of corruption against Indian army being pursued right now?

.they're mainly confined in vehicles or in similar sections only.

Who do you think build the hull for INS Arihant?

DRDO should be shut down and private players let into designing, research and development.

 

[punit]

Increasing rate of corruption in India Army | Sulekha Creative

Is corruption wide spread in the military? » Indian Defence Review

Corruption in armed forces: How extensive is the rot? - Firstpost

Army’s war within: corruption : Inside Story

Corruption in Indian Armed Forces: 72 officers sold their weapons for profit - Army | Indian Defence Forum

This site has dozens of links...

Corruption in India's Defence Deals: A Case Study on Business and Government Ethics | Chakraborty | TIJ's Research Journal of Social Science & Management - RJSSM




That decision lies with Government.they started these projects when there was only them in this market.Tell me,how many Private cos are in this market,even now...they're mainly confined in vehicles or in similar sections only.

But now you can see the silver lining..after 2 decades or more,DRDO and HAL is coming with high quality products,and hopefully,they'll continue to do sne Example,Just look at the Missile Sector,UAVs or Radar and other Sensors.In fact,major projects like Arjun and Tejas are finally on right track.the thing is,these Organisations suffered massivly under sanction as well,and these projects suffered a massive delay for that reason as well.

i respect ur enthusiasm but i am less optimistic.

 

[Indian Patriot]

the thing is,these Organisations suffered massivly under sanction as well

Why? Foreign sanctions puts their dumb minds in deep freeze?

A poor, small country of 11 million that has been under sanctions for decades can build 10,000 km range ICBMs that make even USA uneasy and DRDO cannot make a simple rifle because they faced sanctions.

India faced sanctions from 1998-2001. In 3 years of sanctions the DRDO wants to hide their failure? It took them decades to come up with the working model of LCA. The excuse was that sanctions prevented sale of US engine for Tejas.

What those losers in DRDO do not understand that the reason behind the existence of white elephants like DRDO is that India becomes self-reliant. If they cry like toddlers and give excuses then it is better that DRDO is shut down and the worthless morons in DRDO take up the job of street sweepers or cobblers which is more in sync with their donkey intellect.

i respect ur enthusiasm but i am less optimistic.

He has ulterior motives for supporting DRDO. You would be too if your family member was working in DRDO.

Only the sensible and unbiased individual can understand that DRDO is a pile of horse sh1t.

 

[GR!FF!N]

And what is the problem with T-90 and SMERCH? Of course it would be a miracle if you can define the problem in words but you will only troll around here because you trolls have smileys not facts to back your stupidity.

Why is no country interested in Pinaka? Brazil is able to sell their rocket systems to countries like UAE. Turkey is able to sell weapons to UAE. Pakistan has a better record in weapons export. Why is not a single country interested in the sh1t produced by DRDO? Here is a hint - because DRDO makes sh1t.

First Smerch.....

Ministry of Defence signed two contracts in December 2005 and March 2007
with M/s Rosoboronexport, Russia for import of a total number of 42
SMERCH Multi Barrel Rocket Launcher System (MBRLS) at the total cost
aggregating Rs 2633 crore

The trials of the system were conducted in three phases between June and
August 2002 prior to conclusion of contract in December 2005. In the General
Staff Evaluation (GSE) of the trials, the Director General Quality Assurance
(DGQA) (L) observed that electronic components should be able to function
in operating environment specification of minus 40ºC to plus 50ºC. However,
the maximum temperature recorded during trials was stated to be up to 36ºC
only when the trials were conducted. The need for verification of these aspects
before finalization of contract was emphasized in the GSE.

Seven out of thirteen SOCRIG failed completely during exploitation of sub
systems. As one sub system costs Rs 50 lakh and is critical for the accuracy of
the system, the matter was taken up with the supplier who suggested to carry
out the product improvement by installing a cooling system at the cost of
buyer.

One of the possible reasons for the failure of SOCRIG was attributed to high
temperature ( 36ºC ) prevailing in Indian field conditions which suggested that despite
the apprehensions expressed during trial evaluation the system was not tested
at the temperatures stipulated in the contract.

The sub-system DTE is fitted in LV, TLV, CSV and MET Complex for
encrypted data communication. Eleven DTEs each costing Rs 25 lakh reported
complete/partial failures due to defect in the internal component. The
equipment is critical for the reliability of the system since complete
automation depends on it.

The contract provided for PDI by the DGQA and sixteen personnel were
trained in Russia to carry out inspection. The PDI could not be carried out
properly as the team members were not exposed to the weapon system in the
short training.

The PDI team involved in inspection of the LVs etc was not permitted by the
vendor to carry out live firing from the LV (9A – 52 – 2T) supplied owing to
defective wording of the contract.


Failures in Launch Vehicles

In respect of the LVs the failures in tw
o hydro pneumatic device which acts as
a lifting and balancing mechanism of the LV and cost Rs 25 lakh each

==================

Failures in sub system of launch vehicle - SOCRIG

Seven out of thirteen SOCRIG failed completely during exploitation of sub
systems. As one sub system costs Rs 50 lakh and is critical for the accuracy of
the system,

==================

Failure of Data Transmission Equipment (DTE)

The sub-system DTE is fitted in LV, TLV, CSV and MET Complex for
encrypted data communication. Eleven DTEs each costing Rs 25 lakh reported
complete/partial failures due to defect in the internal component.

==================

Deficiencies in Communication system

Radio Set R 171 M supplied by the vendor has a tuning system which was
reported to be more defect prone than other sub systems of radio sets and also
had reduced range.

(Collected from Kunal Biswas's post)

Chindits: Today Defective Russian SMERCH System Comes Under CAG Scanner !

India’s $500M Smerch-M Order: From Russia, With… Love?


Now T-90

Broadsword: The T-90 tank: Piercing the army's armour of deception
Indian T-90 Tanks Struggle in Summer Desert Heat
The Hindu : MBT: imaging devices unable to withstand Indian conditions

 

[Indian Patriot]

Time table of "scientists" (read losers) in DRDO.

1. Reach office by 11:30 am, 2 hours after scheduled reporting time.

2. Take 1 hour for lunch and office gossip. If you are a senior official you can come to office post lunch.

3. Read newspaper, watch TV and take time to digest food which will take another 30 minutes. Office time would be 1:00 pm now.

4. Shukla ji will discuss with Mishra ji for 1 hour how his daughter's marriage ceremony is working out and how the prices of vegetables and essential commodities are rising up daily. Office time will be 2:00 pm now.

5. Shukla ji and Mishra ji ("scientists" at DRDO) will finish their gossip and remember they have a tank to build so they call on their colleagues for brain-storming. Colleagues take another 30 minutes to gather. Office time will be 2:30 pm.

6. The scientists try to figure out on the design and they consult on different western tank models, notably the German Leopard 1. Unfortunately Shukla ji and Mishra ji are not German nor they have that level of IQ. So problems arise in the design, the kind of materials to be used, the tank gun and ammo storage but most importantly the engine.

Even in 2015 DRDO lacks the brains to make an Indian engine for tanks and jets.

7. The team of scientists haggle and argue for 3 hours without reaching to a conclusion. They have been doing this for the past 10 years. Time is 5:30 pm. Ultimately it will be decided they will have to seek for technology transfer.

The scientists leave by 5:30, 30 minutes before scheduled time, because they have to colect groceries on the way home.

8. The next day is the same story all over again.

And people wonder why DRDO cannot build a single decent weapon.

 

[GR!FF!N]

Again you expose your stupidity and ignorance on military matters. I don't understand why PDF allows trolls like you into military forums when you should be playing with your nappies.

INSAS is a 5.56 caliber rifle and universally all 5.56 mm rifles have some things in common.

1. It weighs lighter than a 7.62 caliber weapon.

2. It carries 30 rounds.

3. It has capability of providing suppression fire.

The very logic of using the lighter 5.56 mm round was so that soldiers can carry more ammunition to the battlefield. Being a lighter round the recoil is lesser than the 7.62 mm and hence the control over the weapon is easier which in turn provides better accuracy. A 5.56 in full auto will be more accurate than a 7.62 in full auto and this small factor helps immensely in CQ combat and anti-insurgency warfare.

Now for the INSAS.

1. It weighs slightly more than the 7.62x51 SLR.

2. It can carry only 20 round magazines.

3. It has no suppressing fire.

4. It has problems of double-feeding and loss of zero after cleaning

5. I hope you know what is meant by loss of zero.

6. It is unreliable and breaks down after firing too many rounds.

It doesn't matter when the Tavor was inducted. INSAS is a failure on multiple counts and shows the worthless and incompetent culture of defence PSUs.

And oh, by the way it was inducted into service in 2001 not 2009. At least learn to lie properly.

First,Tavor entered into Indian service in 2005.That was a typo.

about INSAS,

Weight has no issues...
IA specifically asked for 3 burst fire and not auto,as they thought full auto is wastage of ammo.
INSAS comes with not only 30 magazines,but also with these...

Drum Magazine

But in Army's logic,30 round magazine is quite long for a soldier,so they never asked for it.But it is compatible,and it is well known..

Does the Indian Army use drum magazine?


about unreliability,it was problem one and half decades ago.about jamming in cold weather,that problem is solved way long back.kid,please study.you're wasting my time.