DRDO, Army, kick-backs

[punit]

DRDO is not a PSU you Moron

This is what happens when Retards think they are not stupid

here come our resident einstein !

Dude,there is simply no point wasting your time arguing with that swine!!He's just angry because some DRDO guy had *** fucked him in his childhood days!!Let him blow off his steams,even he needs a place to take out his frustration!!

And in any case,all the foreign rifles competing for that contract,including the BREN CZ and the IWI Galil ACE suffered from repeated failures including bolt carrier malfunctions and double feeds for multiple times and were pronounced unsuitable for Indian conditions!!Does that mean those are worse than INSAS 1B1??As per the OP's logic,that's the very case it would seem!!

And according to making a tank like T 90 - please,let the Russians continue to make that junk!!Even after more than a decade of their induction in the service,the Army still hasn't been able to make them fighting fit for the deserts - where most of the potential tank engagements are expected to take place!!And now they are again crying in front of the DRDO to fix those white elephants you call T 90!!Enough said!!

so true ! India is india only because of the DRDO .

Why are you apologizing to me ?

Grow a spine and stop calling me sir. Indian's apologize TOO MUCH.

so u are not even indian!

Really !!!!!! the DRDO cant make anything like the T-90 !!!! do you have any idea on arjun and t-90 specifications,technology??? even after making an improved version of MK2 the army is insisting on missile firing ability which is non existent in m1a2,leopard,leclerc etc and the lahat as proved during the trials performs sub optimally when compared even to the Invar.
Do you know anything about small arms??? I am not saying that the INSAS is better than the tavor, but to clear things here.
1.Your comment that INSAS weighs 4 kg, check how much a m-16a4 weighs.
2.The INSAS also comes with 30 magazine(which is used in the LMG and excalibur) so there is no fault on the part of the DRDO.
3.When it comes to the lack of suppressive fire, I am not sure what you are talking about, if it is the 3 round burst you are talking about you need to know that it was requested so in the ARMY SQR. Again not the DRDO's fault.BTW all m-16a4 and most m-4 still have 3 round burst capability.
4.It was the ARMY's trial directorate which trialed the INSAS in all environments and cleared it so if problems still exist then it means the trials were not properly conducted or the OFBs workmanship is very poor.
5.Many of the problems like failure to extract,oil spraying into the eyes,jamming have been related to production quality issues and not the actual design.

The army instead of scouting for a new rifle endlessly, that time and money could have been utilised to
1. Iron out quality control issues with OFB.
2. Reconfigure existing rifles to fire in full auto mode and test it.
3. Issue metal insert plastic magazines(developed for MCIWS) and also eliminating extraction problems caused by the magazine if any.
4. Add rails(which are being made by private sector such as MKU),adjustable stocks,grips(developed for MCIWS),sights,laser designators.
5. If possible use a floating barrel as in snipers and hk-416, but this should be a nice to have desired feature and not a necessary one.

With this army would have a cheap, reliable and effective firearm for conventional warfare which would relevant for years to come which would buy time for the army to select a good replacement.In the meantime the special forces can use tavors,M-4 and the counter insurgency forces can use the now under production Ghaatak 7.62x39 rifles of RFI.

not even Paprlmilitary will like to touch Insas .. the reverse cycled junk created by DRDO !

 

[uparyupari]

here come our resident einstein !

Would be nice if you learn basic English grammar before attempting to mock somebody ......"Here" with a capital "H", Einstein with a capital "E".

so true ! India is india only because of the DRDO .
so u are not even indian!

Are you issuing me my Indian Passport ? ........... Retard detected.

 

[punit]

Would be nice if you learn basic English grammar before attempting to mock somebody ......"Here" with a capital "H", Einstein with a capital "E".



Are you issuing me my Indian Passport ? ........... Retard detected.

 

[holysaturn]

here come our resident einstein !


so true ! India is india only because of the DRDO .


so u are not even indian!



not even Paprlmilitary will like to touch Insas .. the reverse cycled junk created by DRDO !

Again you are missing the point , the faults were not because of the design, while the DRDO may have been too liberal with the use of plastics but the design itself was made on proven mechanisms and manufacturing techniques.The biggest culprit here is the OFB because of its shoddy quality and the mindless army requirement of 3 round bursts.
Criticism of mistakes is a must but mindless DRDO bashing without substantiation or proof is not going to help.
The other irony is that the paramilitary is continuing to import berretta mx4 even after reports of improper machining,corrosion while it blamed barrel bulges and failure on faulty ammunition(which is yet to be established clearly).

 

[punit]

Again you are missing the point , the faults were not because of the design, while the DRDO may have been too liberal with the use of plastics but the design itself was made on proven mechanisms and manufacturing techniques.The biggest culprit here is the OFB because of its shoddy quality and the mindless army requirement of 3 round bursts.
Criticism of mistakes is a must but mindless DRDO bashing without substantiation or proof is not going to help.

have u seen the work culture of HAL/ADA from inside! i have the first hand experience of it.

 

[uparyupari]

 

[punit]

 

[holysaturn]

have u seen the work culture of HAL/ADA from inside! i have the first hand experience of it.

What makes you think I have not, ADA and HAL have committed grave mistakes and still are, but other labs such as ARDE,R&DE(engrs),VRDE are much better managed since they are smaller with less bureaucracy. So to blame the DRDO for everything is dumb considering only 6% of the defence budget goes to the DRDO(including the revenue budget) so the amount available for R&D is around 3% which is extremely low.
With 94% of the budget going to the armed forces(again including the salaries,allowances) is it fair to blame the DRDO primarily for the state of the armed forces???? how many BRD's of the army ,Navy and Air Force which are better funded than some DRDO labs are qualified for overhauls,upgrades and life extensions???? why didn't they come up with new products??were they restricted from doing so???why blame only the DRDO.
For the budget they are given, the circumstances they were in the DRDO has made good progress but there is always space for improvement.

 

[punit]

What makes you think I have not, ADA and HAL have committed grave mistakes and still are, but other labs such as ARDE,R&DE(engrs),VRDE are much better managed since they are smaller with less bureaucracy. So to blame the DRDO for everything is dumb considering only 6% of the defence budget goes to the DRDO(including the revenue budget) so the amount available for R&D is around 3% which is extremely low.
With 94% of the budget going to the armed forces(again including the salaries,allowances) is it fair to blame the DRDO primarily for the state of the armed forces???? how many BRD's of the army ,Navy and Air Force which are better funded than some DRDO labs are qualified for overhauls,upgrades and life extensions???? why blame only the DRDO.
For the budget they are given, the circumstances they were in the DRDO has made good progress but there is always space for improvement.

i have nothing against the real work force ( scientist, technicians, researchers) working inside HAL/DRDO. the problem is with management. their lethargy, refusal to work in prescribed time and utter disdain for their only customer ( Armed forces).
SOme how in their infinite wisdom management believes that they know more about the customer requirement then the customers themselves.

 

[Omega007]

here come our resident einstein !

And here comes our puny *** needle d!ck piece of crap.Your name suits you very well - "PUNIT" as in short for Puny Nitwit!!

so true ! India is india only because of the DRDO .

Whatever the **** rocks your boat chica,whatever rocks your boat.

not even Paprlmilitary will like to touch Insas .. the reverse cycled junk created by DRDO !

Yeah..............and I will tell you why!!Simply cause they are just a bunch of ill trained semi literate village bumpkins - that's why!!Those guys are so pathetic that they can neither oil or maintain their rifles properly nor can they properly zero in the iron sights!!In fact,most of them never bother to zero in their sights!!No wonder they always prefer those sorry arse AKs which even a retard can fire,cause they are not really much better than retards!!One do not really have to zero in the sights,nor they can cause you need specialized tools for that and moreover,the AKs do not really have any worthwhile sights!!With INSAS,you can do that with n unspent cartridge or a fu*king nail!!
Just out of curiosity,have you ever fired the INSAS??F**k INSAS - have you ever taken any firearm or even an air rifle in your hands??I have used 4 different types of rifles,including the INSAS,and it never failed me!!We used to clean and oil our rifle every day,when ever we got the time for it and voila!!No jamming issue faced!!It's simple actually - if you want a gun that will fire whenever you pull the trigger and the rest be damned,then you buy something with sloppy tolerances like in this case - the AKMs!!
And if you want to achieve sub MOA accuracy at 100+ yards,then you go for something with much tighter tolerances,like the INSAS (with an AK,an average shooter would be lucky to achieve 4 MOA at the same range,given the barrel and ammo used are top of the line!!)The tighter the tolerances,more prone it will be to jamming by foreign body intakes!!It's very simple but I've got my doubts whether a needle d!ck pencil pusher can understand all these technical stuffs.
And judging by the incompetence of our paramilitary,it's quite logical they would go for the AKs and nothing else!!Not even the Tavor!!Ask our resident Army basher VK17 to know what I'm trying to tell!!

 

[punit]

And here comes our puny *** needle d!ck piece of crap.Your name suits you very well - "PUNIT" as in short for Puny Nitwit!!




Whatever the **** rocks your boat chica,whatever rocks your boat.







Yeah..............and I will tell you why!!Simply cause they are a just a bunch of ill trained semi literate bumpkins - that's why!!Those guys are so pathetic that they can neither oil or maintain their rifles properly nor can they properly zero in the iron sights!!In fact,most of them never bother to zero in their sights!!No wonder they always prefer those sorry arse AKs which even a retard can fire,cause they are not really much better than retards!!
Just out of curiosity,have you ever fired the INSAS??**** the INSAS - have you ever taken any firearm or even an air rifle in your hands??I have used 4 different types of rifles,including the INSAS,and it never failed me!!We used to clean and oil our rifle every day,when ever we got the time for it and voila!!No jamming issue faced!!It's simple actually - if you want a gun that will fire whenever you pull the trigger and the rest be damned,then you buy something with sloppy tolerances like in this case - the AKMs!!
And if you want to achieve sub MOA accuracy at 1020 yards,then you go for something with much tighter tolerances,like the INSAS!!The tighter the tolerances,more prone it will be to jamming by foreign body intakes!!It's very simple but I've got my doubts whether a needle d!ck pencil pusher can understand all these technical stuffs.
And judging by the incompetence of our paramilitary,it's quite logical they would go for the Aks and nothing else!!Not even the Tavor!!Ask our resident Army basher VK17 to know what I'm trying to tell!!

damn ! THIS WAS SOME SERIOUS AMOUNT OF BULLSHIT !

 

[holysaturn]

i have nothing against the real work force ( scientist, technicians, researchers) working inside HAL/DRDO. the problem is with management. their lethargy, refusal to work in prescribed time and utter disdain for their only customer ( Armed forces).
SOme how in their infinite wisdom management believes that they know more about the customer requirement then the customers themselves.

1. About the first point,that problem is present in all organisations which is known as "change resistance",it just might be a bit more in some DRDO labs and that too with a small number of personnel.It needs a system revamp,a change in work culture in those labs by a top down approach.But some labs I visited or know about such as R&DE(engrs),P&XE,CABS work day and night and often on weekends, such is the commitment.
2. About the second point ,their belief is true because the users as many say are not the actual users(jawans,operators,EME officers who get their hands dirty) where the actual know how is but high level officers who at many times are technology dreamers who read a lot of magazines,product info of foreign vendors and take them at face value.The problem is that those red hot technologies are not commercially available in India as in other countries or are just marketing brain farts which will send the DRDO or any private Co on a wild goose chase.
BTW it is not only the DRDO which complains about the army's inability to asses the cloth we have for our coat but also prominent private firms whom I don't want to divulge here.

 

[punit]

1. About the first point,that problem is present in all organisations which is known as "change resistance",it just might be a bit more in some DRDO labs and that too with a small number of personnel.It needs a system revamp,a change in work culture in those labs by a top down approach.But some labs I visited or know about such as R&DE(engrs),P&XE,CABS work day and night and often on weekends, such is the commitment.
2. About the second point ,their belief is true because the users as many say are not the actual users(jawans,operators,EME officers who get their hands dirty) where the actual know how is but high level officers who at many times are technology dreamers who read a lot of magazines,product info of foreign vendors and take them at face value.The problem is that those red hot technologies are not commercially available in India as in other countries or are just marketing brain farts which will send the DRDO or any private Co on a wild goose chase.
BTW it is not only the DRDO which complains about the army's inability to asses the cloth we have for our coat but also prominent private firms whom I don't want to divulge here.

I AGREE WITH MANY POINT . but if DRDO is asked to compete with pvt players will it be able to escape the fate of other Tax payer money fed erstwhile public sector giants like ( BSNL, DD, Air India etc etc).

 

[Pulsar]

Many Indian trolls in PDF try to defend the failures of PSUs like DRDO by claiming that DRDO is a very efficient organisation that makes world class weapons but it is the army who plays spoil sport by making cunning, last minute changes to create an unfair scenario for DRDO.

The typical blame put on the army is that they love "foreign maal" instead of giving boost to indigenous industry. What the trolls fail to understand is that the responsibility of army is national security not domestic economics. The army buys foreign stuff because foreign is better than Indian. DRDO can never make anything like T-90, SMERCH, Tavor, Bofors etc. The army has to rely on foreign suppliers because domestic suppliers either don't have the desired product or the ones they have are woefully obsolete. It was the foreign suppliers that came to India's rescue in Kargil war.

The second most common, and rather serious allegation, blame given is that DRDO does not pay bribes (kick-backs) and thus army loves foreign goods. This is saying that the Indian army top brass is so hopelessly corrupt that they are willing to risk national security for kick-backs. Of course only a fool would select INSAS over TAR-21 rifle but trolls don't work on logic.

The indication is that army is corrupt and cannot be trusted. This blame is not only very serious but also very foolish and outright stupid. If the army was so corrupt as to sell defense of the country for money then Pakistan would have sent infiltrators to kashmir with sackfuls of dollars or a bundle of signed blank checks of a secure swiss bank account. Within 24 hours kashmir would have fallen if the army was so corrupt. The Indian army would not be standing guard in the cold wastes of Siachen risking life and limb if they were so greedy for bribes and kick-backs like these DRDO trolls allege.

And the final nail against this bogus argument of kick-back is that such a scandal once cost a government their seat in power. Bofors scandal rocked the country and proved to be the last straw in Rajiv Gandhi's career. The Kargil coffin scam nearly cost BJP their seat and created deep fissures in the NDA sarkar.

If the army was jeopardizing national security by trying to sabotage indigenous defense manufacturing then it would have created a scandal that would have put the entire armed forces personnel to shame and the after shocks would have continued for decades.

Just look at the design of the weapons made by DRDO and compare them with weapons made in France, USA, Russia, Israel or even Turkey. DRDO weapons look like garage-workshop models and they work like that as well. The INSAS is a 5.56 mm rifle which weighs 4 kg empty, has only a 20 round magazine and lacks suppressing firepower. And trolls in the Indian group call INSAS a world-class rifle better than Tavor, M-4, etc.

The army will buy DRDO products when DRDO products meet world standard. Till then the army is doing India a great service buy buying effective foreign weapons which are battle-worthy and reliant.

You moron, WTF were you smoking when you wrote this shit? I've seen idiots but you take the cake.

 

[Omega007]

damn ! THIS WAS SOME SERIOUS AMOUNT OF BULLSHIT !

In other words - "Chor mere baap tere paer pakar ta hu"!!Good good,I'm glad that you realized your mistakes and decided to left with whatever dignity you had left without making any farther fool of yourself!!