Dozens arrested at Sweden riots sparked by planned Quran burnings

[Apollon]

Oh really! That’s news to me. I was under the false impression, it seems, that questioning the details of the holocaust, even in an academic setting, is a crime and offense. Atleast, wiki seems to think so…

Legality of Holocaust denial - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

But what do I know?

Has this argument ever helped the muslim side?

Asking for a friend.

 

[Ssan]

Oh really! That’s news to me. I was under the false impression, it seems, that questioning the details of the holocaust, even in an academic setting, is a crime and offense. Atleast, wiki seems to think so…

Legality of Holocaust denial - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

But what do I know?

I could care less about Europe. Much less so about Greece presently. You guys are no shining city on a hill. I do think there are admirable things about the US though.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Oh really! That’s news to me. I was under the false impression, it seems, that questioning the details of the holocaust, even in an academic setting, is a crime and offense. Atleast, wiki seems to think so…

I just mentioned this precise same situation.

It comes down to the law once more.

Freedom of expression, for instance, is permitted in the Indian Constitution; however, there are reserved areas, and those are covered by specific, explicit laws.

 

[Ssan]

Has this argument ever helped the muslim side?

Asking for a friend.

Yes. It has shown the hypocrisy in the European collective argument. If you read the laws carefully, they ought to apply to hate speech against any religion, any incitement against a religious group or ethnicity, but it does not for Muslims.

 

[RAMPAGE]

What is this "ghairat" thing I sometimes listen from some Pakistani members ?

Low self-esteem.

 

[Ssan]

I just mentioned this precise same situation.

It comes down to the law once more.

Freedom of expression, for instance, is permitted in the Indian Constitution; however, there are reserved areas, and those are covered by specific, explicit laws.

That’s my point precisely- a lot of holocaust denial laws in Europe are based on laws against incitement, hate speech, etc. This ought to apply to hate speech against Muslims too but for some reason it does not. What the collective Muslim voice is pointing out is that what we are asking for is not against written laws- it’s just that those laws are prejudicially applied or not applied.

 

[Joe Shearer]

This ought to apply to hate speech against Muslims too but for some reason it does not.

Let me make it clear, on record.

I totally support this; firmly, but nothing extreme, in Europe and other parts of the world; as key to my nation's survival in India.

What the collective Muslim voice is pointing out is that what we are asking for is not against written laws- it’s just that those laws are prejudicially applied or not applied.

Yeah, right, TELL me about it.

Come to India, you'll find that a riot provocateur is let off on the grounds that there is a difference between hateful speech and hateful speech uttered with a smile.

 

[Qmjd]

As it is I have been speaking of the progressive Muslims or India and elsewhere to do hijrat to generally sensible Muslim-majority and non-Muslim-majority countries like Bangladesh, Russia, Algeria etc and contribute to the development of those societies. I am embarrassed by the irrationality and regressiveness of many modern Indian Muslims - those "Pehle hijab, phir kitaab" types.



You and your comrades here are the real murtads. The sweat on my commie forehead is more Islamic than you by a light year.



I think @SQ8 is talking about non-Islamic verses.



Why do Hindutvadis use that phrase often - "Law of the land" ? BTW I wonder about the reaction of Hindutvadis if the Dalits and the Shudras in India burn the Manusmriti public across India.





And this you say sitting in a kaafir country.



What would be their approach in fighting 500 million Hindutvadis ?



What is this "ghairat" thing I sometimes listen from some Pakistani members ?



I suggest you put your fire-playing skills to removing political and socio-economic disparities in Pakistan. Only late last year two Pakistani young men suicided by jumping off the higher floors in two separate shopping malls. They were unemployed and the Pakistani socio-economic system refused to help them out with basic survival. Please stop attending Tableeghi sessions and put your mind to progressiveness.



No, the Nazis would have saved the bullets for the war.

Why you so worried, if we die from 100 floor or die with hunger , you kill hundard of thousand in wars, your garbage mentally brought this world to hunger.

 

[Chak Bamu]

If you belive in God, then you belive all the things are controlled by God , if he has no problem with the burning of Quran or damaging it. I don't think you guys are bigger than him.

What you say is nothing unexpected. Others have said the same. See:

"And when it is said to them, “Donate from what Allah has provided for you,” the disbelievers say to the believers, “Why should we feed those whom Allah could have fed if He wanted to? You are clearly astray!”"
Al-Quran 36:47

Its not about Allah. Its about us & what we do. See below:

"All good will be for its own benefit, and all evil will be to its own loss." 2:286

 

[jamahir]

Honour

Low self-esteem.

Exactly, RAMPAGE ! Some Pakistanis have low self-esteem where they don't want to remove the real problems in Pakistan or do not have the capability to do so ( see Qmjd's post below ) but they impose this "ghairat" thing on females and those who reject the mullahs. @Joe Shearer

Why you so worried, if we die from 100 floor or die with hunger , you kill hundard of thousand in wars, your garbage mentally brought this world to hunger.

 

[Ssan]

I just mentioned this precise same situation.

It comes down to the law once more.

Freedom of expression, for instance, is permitted in the Indian Constitution; however, there are reserved areas, and those are covered by specific, explicit laws.

I am of the view, and you are free to disagree with me, that freedom of expression is derived from the Islamic idea of of maqasid as sharia- that there are God-given human rights. The 4 schools of Sunni Islam are agreed that these rights can broadly be categorized under life, liberty, and socio-economic rights.

Freedom of expression falls under the right to liberty. But so does freedom of religion, and intelligence/sanity. You cannot have freedom of religion when people blatantly spread hate speech against said religion. I value freedom of speech but it has its limits. It is particularly useful when it pushed society to explore new ideas. However nazi, extreme right wing, fascist speech ought to be curtailed. Not sure how burning someone else’s holy book is not incitement.

 

[Krptonite]

We won’t do anything to innocents but the ones responsible we’ll make the world hell for them! They won’t find a hole to hide in! The perpetrators will be made an example out of and it will be a very violent example!


Oh no not this murtad commie again


If your not Muslim don’t tell us not to react.

It’s not just a “book” to us Muslims. We value Quran more then our lives.

F**k your freedom of speech if your freedom of speech means disrespecting our religion then we’ll use the freedom of force and make an example out of those who disrespect our religion. We don’t care if riots are caused or clashes, ww3 could be started we don’t care. If you disrespect our religion, be ready to see many heads roll.

What about reading the holy book for once and paying attention to how God almighty values patience and rewards it. How violence as a first response is discouraged by hadees, sunnah and holy verses.

It is quite strange for the Holy Quran to preach one things and stronk defenders like yourself frothing out the opposite.

This desecration was done with the intention of showcasing and boxing in the religion that came to better oneself as something inherently violent. Congratulations, people with decadent brain cells seldom use them and lash out as a first response.

Come on, be brave, showcase this keyboard braggadacio, go out and enjoy that freedome of speech and demonstrate and protest. Try actual action rather than this verbal diarrhea.

A peacefull demonstration, a logical voice, a protest would have addressed the problem with the tact taught and proposed by the Holy Quran and would be consistent with Peacefull response Sunnah and hadees of the Holy prophet.


A question for you, if a Muslim prays five times a day, fasts during ramadan but acts contrary to the teaching of the Holy book, is he a Muslim.

Is Islam about the rituals or the teachings?

 

[WotTen]

There seems to be a belief that just saying something ornery will get the two extremes cancelled out. Or something. I simply don't understand.

The point is to highlight the hypocrisy of most Western countries about freedom of speech. Speech which offends their sensibilities is legally forbidden, whereas anything against Muslims is trumpeted as protected by freedom of speech.

People pick the Holocaust because it is one of the most sacred holy cows in Western countries. The only country that is not a hypocrite and has a more consistent policy on free speech is the US.

 

[Apollon]

Yes. It has shown the hypocrisy in the European collective argument. If you read the laws carefully, they ought to apply to hate speech against any religion, any incitement against a religious group or ethnicity, but it does not for Muslims.

That is wrong and shows that you dont understand european culture. Hate speech is adressing the people. If one denigrates muslims for being muslims ect. Critisizing religious books, burning books and caricatures regarding religions are completly legal and a fundamental right here.

So stop your usual selfpity.

I could care less about Europe. Much less so about Greece presently. You guys are no shining city on a hill. I do think there are admirable things about the US though.

Europe in general has far higher living standards and art standards than USA.

 

[Longhorn]

Best way to deal with these people is to ignore them.
The only reason they do what they do is because they get a reaction.
If we don't react then the whole thing becomes pointless.