Domestic & Social Crimes [Mob/ Vigilante justice] Thread

[thegreensprite]

So your logic that after Kulma Mulsim can do the following:

1) eat pork
2) drink wine
3) change the Quran to suit their needs (more precisly wants) instead of obeying Allah(swt)
4) don't pray at all and I mean when there is no difficultie ie like there is a movie you want to
watch instead of praying etc etc etc
5) Following the quran partly
6) disgard the Prophet teaches and Quran totally.

LOL... how did you come to this conclusion??? What sort of logic are you using... and this list of yours is irrelevant, to be a Muslim you only have to say the Kalma Tayeba, the rest is between you and Allah. I bet you are one of those people who thinks Heaven will only be full of Muslims...

By no means I'm saying that this is what the Ahmedis do but I will say this
Islam does say that Mohammid is the Last Prophet:

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Apostle of God, and the Seal of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things. (The Noble Quran, 33:40)"

It comes down to your intelligence levels and interpretation of things. To you Seal may mean last, to me it has other meanings, ie. there is no more new message to come, it is done... sealed, no more new revelations.

Comments from the foot notes of the translation of Sheikh (Minister) Abdullah Yusuf Ali; may Allah Almighty rest his soul and make Heaven his final destiny: "When a document is sealed, it is complete, and there can be no further addition.

Correct

The Holy Prophet Muhammad closed the long line of Messengers. Allah's teaching is and will always be continuous, but there has been and will be no Prophet after Muhammad. The later ages will want thinkers and reformers, not Prophets. This is not an arbitrary matter. It is a decree full of knowledge and wisdom, 'for Allah has full knowledge of all things.'"

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is not a Prophet in the same sense.. he is the Imam Mahdi... the reformed.. and yes Allah does have full knowledge of all things, whereas this Yusuf Ali doesn't.

In the above Noble Verse we see Allah Almighty clearly Saying that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is the last Prophet (Messenger) sent by Allah Almighty to Mankind.

This is your interpretation.

In Arabic, the words "Prophet (Nabi)", and "Messenger (Rasul)" could and would mean the same thing.

Again... your interpretation.

This means that Allah Almighty in the above Noble Verse said that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is the last Messenger and Prophet of GOD Almighty.

YOUR interpretation.

The following Saying from our beloved Prophet peace be upon him will further prove it for us:
"In My Ummah (Islamic Nation), there shall be born Thirty Grand Liars (Dajjals), each of whom will claim to be a prophet, But I am the Last Prophet; there is No Prophet after Me"
so I wonder, just wondering how is it that you got yours ?

Hazrat Isa anyone?

 

[jetti]

I guess U didn't get my point. I meant with weaker Pakistan ure Army won't need that much budget to counter us so it will be decreased. Its quite possible Ure Army's soldiers will be decreased by number cuz we will be weak. This means the Army won't recruit so many pplz and hence unemployment will surge. Cuz less weapons will be manufactured. So U guyz will face same kind of un-employment as US and Europe do nowadays......

Friend that's why we cunning Indians buy weapons. W don't manufacture much. The money saved from buying weapons will be used n generating employment which will be filled by the reduced army numbers. So don't worry a weak Pak is good for India. And with more guys like you I see that happening very soon. Allah will ensure it.

 

[regular]

Friend that's why we cunning Indians buy weapons. W don't manufacture much. The money saved from buying weapons will be used n generating employment which will be filled by the reduced army numbers. So don't worry a weak Pak is good for India. And with more guys like you I see that happening very soon. Allah will ensure it.

I guess u're got decieved by ure leaders too like we are. These politicians will stash the saved money from ure paid taxes within the Swiss accounts so don't get optimistic about that.They won't decrease unemployment there either. Remember the british was very smart they planted their agents as leaders on us as well as on U guys and just take away all the money within the Europe. Thats why after 60 years we are still facing poverty.Just keep dreaming for good future....

 

[Thorough Pro]

another false propaganda items, minorities in Pakistan have much better standards of living, rights and security than in the country on our eastern border.

 

[Solomon2]

Branded an Ahmadi, hakim is expelled from district
By Muhammad Sadaqat
Published: November 3, 2011

Police denies expulsion, claims to have closed the clinic to avoid unrest.

HARIPUR: A hakim accused of being an Ahmadi and proselytising was expelled from Haripur on Wednesday. The police, however, denied expelling Sheikh Arif from the district and said he had decided to leave himself.

Chased out or left voluntarily?

Haripur police officials said that local ulema, accompanied by officials of a local intelligence agency, visited Arif’s clinic some days back and found Quranic verses painted on its shutter along with a picture of one of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed’s companions.

When they asked Arif why he had painted the picture of an Ahmadi over Quranic verses, he initially said the picture was his ancestor’s but later confessed that he had made a mistake.

The ulema accused him of violating the law that restricted Ahmadis from openly preaching their religion. They demanded a complete ban on his business and his expulsion from the district.

A delegation of the ulema met District Police Officer (DPO) Haripur Muhammad Ali Gandapur, who, according to them, ordered an inquiry against the hakim and expelled him from the district.

Deputy Superintendent Police Raja Abdul Saboor rejected the ulemas’ claim and said the decision to leave was his own.

An inquiry into the allegations against the hakim is yet to be completed, he said.

“Since there was some indication of violation of section 298C of the Pakistan Penal Code (which prohibits Ahmadis from behaving as Muslims), the police has asked the dispensers to close the clinic to avoid unrest,” he added.

Proving otherwise

Talking to The Express Tribune Arif rejected the allegation, “I’m a Barelvi Muslim. I consider [Ahmadis] unbelievers,” he said.

“I met DPO Haripur and took an oath declaring that I was not an Ahmadi and that the painting was copied from a picture on a book on traditional medicine,” he said.

He added that the DPO asked him to avoid Haripur unless he was called for an inquiry.

Arif said he was a qualified hakim and some of his business rivals had conspired to malign him. “The police have arrested two of my staff members.”

The terrified 60-year-old hakim sent two religious decrees issued by Jamia Ashrafia and a mosque Arif frequented for prayers in Lahore, acknowledging that he was not an Ahmadi. He also claimed to have contacted religious scholars to prove his innocence.

Published in The Express Tribune, November 3rd, 2011.

 

[regular]

Nothing could be trusted. But if realli don't believe in Qadiani/Murtid religion then nothing gonna happen to him....

 

[Solomon2]

I post these articles to hammer in a point: you can't keep invoking religious ideology to oppress minority citizens in your community, because eventually that oppression will turn around to feed on you.

Pakistan, as originally envisioned, guaranteed religious freedom to religious minorities. Jinnah understood explicitly that that meant not merely acquiescing to their existence but allowing them to grow and thrive, including the establishments of new minority communities, new houses of worship, and converts away from Islam.

Pakistan has failed miserably in this regard. And that misery spreads wider every day because "all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

 

[jetti]

why cant ahmedi muslims preach their version of Islam? I thought Pakistan is a free country. If the sunnis are okay for someone to preach the sunni flavour of islam they should be legally obliged to let others whether it is christian or hindu or their own ahmadi muslims to preach theirs

 

[Safriz]

i am from the same general area,and yes there is a dislike for Ahmedis among people of Hazara,of which Haripur is a part..But it will take many other factors to reach a situation where a minority person has been approaches,persecuted and expelled.
Pictures and Verses of Quran being painted together is something suspicious.....The people who perform Dark arts do similar things and many other things which is out of context so i wont mention....
So like i said,there have to be other contributing factors.....and Bravo at the anti Pakistan Brigade who suss out small news reports from far flung secluded areas..I havent read a news about Haripur in international news for many years.

 

[monitor]

Those who believe in kadianee/Ahmedia are not muslim . they can live happily any where but condition is they should refrain themselves think as Muslim.

 

[Solomon2]

i am from the same general area,and yes there is a dislike for Ahmedis among people of Hazara,of which Haripur is a part..But it will take many other factors to reach a situation where a minority person has been approaches,persecuted and expelled.

Granted, I don't know much about the Hazaras of K-P. Nevertheless, if a firebrand mullah and his followers invade your area, wishing to expel or kill Ahmedis, are you willing to protect the Ahmedis yourself? Or do you think the police/FP/Army will do it?

 

[Safriz]

why cant ahmedi muslims preach their version of Islam? I thought Pakistan is a free country. If the sunnis are okay for someone to preach the sunni flavour of islam they should be legally obliged to let others whether it is christian or hindu or their own ahmadi muslims to preach theirs

Ahmedis are legally banned impostors of islam.....
cant have problem with whatever sky fairy they beleive in..they should feel free..butr no they arent muslims

 

[Safriz]

Granted, I don't know much about the Hazaras of K-P. Nevertheless, if a firebrand mullah and his followers invade your area, wishing to expel or kill Ahmedis, are you willing to protect the Ahmedis yourself? Or do you think the police/FP/Army will do it?

not me..but my family has done it in the past,as i was only 7 at that time.
a grenade attack was planed on a very docile ahmedi family who happened to be our distant neighbors and members of my family had an eavesdrop on the "To be" perpetrators....and the matter was resolved by using peer pressure although police was not involved....The ahmedi family never knew of it and it was kept that way...as telling them would have harassed them.
My stance on the matter is peaceful protest and debate..I oppose Ahmedi faith as they are impostors of ISlam and shouldn't call themselves muslims..But i only debate,i dont go ballistic as its of no use.
About army or Police standing guard..i doubt that...may not happen..as in Norhern Pakistan still clan,cast and tribe matters..If you are a member of a certain Tribe or cast,you will get help from your clan...even if you are Ahmedi...

 

[Solomon2]

...the matter was resolved by using peer pressure although police was not involved....The ahmedi family never knew of it and it was kept that way...as telling them would have harassed them...

I am impressed: the matter was handled assertively yet with delicacy and tact. I especially like the fact that the ahmedi family never knew who their benefactors were.

My stance on the matter is peaceful protest and debate..I oppose Ahmedi faith as they are impostors of ISlam and shouldn't call themselves muslims..But i only debate,i dont go ballistic as its of no use.

That is not very different from the attitudes between faiths in the West.

About army or Police standing guard..i doubt that...may not happen..as in Norhern Pakistan still clan,cast and tribe matters..If you are a member of a certain Tribe or cast,you will get help from your clan...even if you are Ahmedi...

That canb be both good and bad. Do you think a worthy project would be the formal integration of tribal and state laws? I do. Some of what I didn't understand in Jewish Law becomes clearer when talking to Pakistanis...one of the functions of Torah law was to combine the two together into a whole where all Twelve Tribes could work together as a nation. The idea was so new Jews must have been as puzzled then as I am now, looking through the opposite end of the telescope...

 

[mymeaningislion]

why cant ahmedi muslims preach their version of Islam? I thought Pakistan is a free country. If the sunnis are okay for someone to preach the sunni flavour of islam they should be legally obliged to let others whether it is christian or hindu or their own ahmadi muslims to preach theirs

gentleman for preaching one thing is that you have to respect other thoughts but ahmedis and quadians start with neglecting the prophecy......... so conflicts start from the very beginning............... and this is not a religious forum so i can't comment or argue ........ otherwise i have enough grip on cristianity....hinduism..... to convert someone knowledgeable and rational person....... but as i said it is not a place to talk on such topics........ and plz refrain from commenting on such topics that you don't understand .......

regards
Azhar