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Doha Peace Pact 2020 : US-Taliban Deal - Analysis

The lesson to take: no matter what it takes don't compromise on your national security

The nation, which voluntarily gives away its freedom, deserves to be treated as slaves - Gazi Mustafa Kemal Pasha

No wonder, the Turkish nationalist leader, Devlet Bahceli, has publicly declared to get ready to roll into Damascus...
 
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The lesson to take: no matter what it takes don't compromise on your national security

The nation, which voluntarily gives away its freedom, deserves to be treated as slaves - Gazi Mustafa Kemal Pasha

No wonder, the Turkish nationalist leader, Devlet Bahceli, has publicly declared to get ready to roll into Damascus...
USA found an opportunity in a internally weak and broken Afghanistan thanks to civil war, A blessing Pakistan and Turkey has is a unified nation. Multiple powers tried their level best to introduce civil wars but failed...

The day Afghanistan Unites internally would be the last day for a foreign soldier to breath in Afghanistan.
 
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BTW people can draw some similarities of current situation of Afghanistan and the situation of Yemen during 2011-2014 before the civil war of Yemen
 
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What will happen nobody could say with certainty, but If you observe you will definitely recognize faultlines and active seismic zones; I will say current transitional phase is not a victory but potential to explode once again.

As long as Intera-Afghan negotiation is successfully concluded with written agreement I would refrain myself to accept it as achievement
Very well said, “It’s not over until it’s over”,
Papers don’t work in these situations, which have seen billions of dollars go into waste but still the opponents stand tight.
 
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Well in honesty, there is nothing in Afghanistan worth persuing for Americans it is/was a dead end , money-wasting adventure

Majority of weaponry was already transported out or Donated to regional partners

Why did they not remove their Troops immediately? Why wait for 14 months?

  • US Troops have maintained a presence in Japan for 70 years and various pacific islands since WW2

If they are not in Afghanistan , than they are sitting in Qatar if not in Qatar may be in Kuwait
The facilities are fantastic in Qatar , and troops can enjoy a healthy lifestyle vs in Afghanistan which of course is a none developed nation


No one knows the Political capacity for AFT , can they work in Democratic circles or will they just disband into nothing as before allowing for Opportunistic elements to come forth in election or whatever mode the locals will select for choosing their Leadership


In 1990 the Uneducated Warrior class and the Educated (returned migrants) clashed in formation of new power circles in Afghanistan , which created massive voids. Since India was formally involved in Afghanistan's affairs , the country fell into Civil war


Alot will depend if RAW can be kept out of Afghanistan


Similarly, Rosy outlook was also present in 1990's , when Mujahideen won the war vs USSR and in end the faction which emerged from rubble was AFT which was generally considered
the best option at that time , for it's people while people acknowledged they were strict.


The general outlook in 1990's was that Afghanistan will form a wonderful new stable government and war will be thing of past however the region became more filled with violence in aftermath by inner fighting between various factions inside the groups

Post-1990's wars/assassinations and internal grouping was common post 1990 end of war

Difficult to say same will not happen again
 
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O Shahzade,

Allow me to thankyou for a such a vast subject matter
...which you have opened with absolute pure intentions ..but perhaps.............

War in Afghanistan was/is not about Aghanistan
....never stand alone anyways....

Yes, Afghanistan was/is certainly the battlefield. Enough about it for now...

POTUS says that Taliban are now going to hunt the 'bad guys'... something to decipher more than just elimination of TTP/BLA or anyother NDS-RAW n Co. TerrorEnterprises...

We cann't see Afghanistan as stand alone without CentralAsia, China and Russia in it... and of course, Persia!

Gawadar is not just a port..however, deep it might be. And then there is the race for batteries too...

From Pakistan's perspective and frankly, for our survival and thriving we need to look at the Map with all four eyes.

China, FarEast, SouthEastAsia and EastAfrica, ME and of course, Eurasia... this is OurExistentialGeography!

Turkiye is as much a key in TheGreatestGame in town...but Pakistan remains TheHeartland...as I have said numerous times before...


Now regarding this PeaceDeal...well... let us not call it PeaceDeal to start with...

You know, Shahzade, it takes yours truly a lot of energy these days to compose a proper piece...and this particular subject matter is not only vast but it is also all about Pakistan... since, yours truly doesn't excercise full control of required faculties ...hence, you do witness apparent junk posts...which I assure you are carefully engineered for PakPositivism ... as PaJee @SIPRA and @PakSword brother mine, know...

I need to still compose three parts to the follow up on Hole in the Soul in the Hybridwar thread... and then there is CriminalEnterprise, the UglyTruth about PakEconomy and TheGameOfChicken (have you read my thesis?)

Bazar. Kabulis. And then there are Afghans... please, remember Afghans are OurBrothers and bazari Kabulis are NOT.

Whence you crack up something, kindly, do tag me... I shall, with all my affection, try to push you in the corner so that you come up with the best in you!

Please, remember ... TheGreatestGame is in Town and Pakistan is TheHeartland!!!


Mangus
“Bad guys” is perhaps what US wants from AFT, but definition of bad for USA and AFT is opposite, this is where it gets really interesting and creepy
 
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They say that keep your friends close--but your enemies closer. In the spirit of that, here is an article from an Indian source. BTW, 'The Hindu' and the 'Dawn' from Pakistan and India respectively are very good news outlets.

I have tried to make some text red below to draw attention. Well, they maybe red flags for India ;) My comments in brackets [] in red.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/inter...over-us-taliban-agreement/article30958002.ece

Experts raise concerns for India over U.S.-Taliban agreement

The proposed Afghanistan-Pakistan dialogue, facilitated by the U.S., must not cut India out of the region’s security architecture, warn experts
New Delhi has signalled its acceptance of the U.S.-Taliban and U.S.-Afghanistan peace agreements in Doha and Kabul that aim to end the 18-year war in Afghanistan, by sending envoys to witness them.

Also read | U.S. strikes a deal with Taliban to end 18-year-long Afghan war

The two agreements set out a course for the next 14 months, including the pull-out of U.S. troops, the denial of space to foreign terrorist groups and any violence against the U.S. and allies, and intra-Afghan dialogue.


However, after a closer look at the texts of the two agreements distributed to news agencies, named the “Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan between the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognised by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban, and the United States of America”, and the “Joint Declaration between the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan and the United States of America for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan”, diplomatic and security experts say the impact on India may be a cause for worry for the government.

Terms still nebulous
“The reduction in violence is a much-needed respite for Afghans,” said Amar Sinha, National Security Advisory Board member and former Ambassador to Afghanistan.

Also read | U.S.-Taliban agreement | India hails peace deal in “contiguous neighbour”

However, Mr. Sinha added that “all Taliban demands have been front-loaded, while the actual terms of the ‘peace deal’ are yet to be negotiated between the Taliban and the Afghan side, facilitated by the U.S. So, much of the heavy lifting remains.”

More critical of the agreement, Anand Arni, former Special Secretary in the Research & Analysis Wing, who worked closely on Indian policy in Afghanistan, said it was “entirely one-sided”. “Taliban cannot deliver on the assurances it has given, and yet the U.S. has handed over Afghanistan to them. There is no reference to the Constitution, rule of law, democracy and elections,” [Frankly, Indians wouldn't care for 'democracy' blah blah in Afghanistan. Have SOME honesty guys!'] he said.

The salient points of concern are:

Does the term “U.S. and Allies” include India?
In the Doha agreement, the Taliban has guaranteed “enforcement mechanisms that will prevent the use of the soil of Afghanistan by any group or individual against the security of the United States and its allies”. However, it is unclear whether India, which is not a U.S. ally, is included in this definition, and whether Pakistan-backed groups that threaten India, would still operate in Afghanistan. The Kabul declaration with the Ghani government more specifically commits to stopping “any international terrorist groups or individuals, including al-Qa’ida and ISIS-K, from using Afghan soil to threaten the security of the United States, its allies and other countries.”

Impact of prisoner release and lifting sanctions
Officials worry most about the “mainstreaming of the Haqqani network”, which Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorists reportedly fight alongside and were responsible for the 2008 bombing of the Indian embassy in Kabul. According to the agreements, 5,000 Taliban prisoners will be released by March 10, 2020, the first day of intra-Afghan negotiations, and the remainder in another three months. Officials also point out that the U.S. has committed to taking Taliban leaders off the UN Security Council’s sanctions list by May 29, 2020, which could considerably bring down the number of terrorists Pakistan is accused of harbouring, according to the FATF greylist conditions. This might benefit Pakistan during the June 2020 FATF Plenary, when it faces a blacklist for not complying.

Handing powers to Taliban
In the Doha agreement, the U.S. has committed to clearing five bases and bringing troop levels down to 8,600 in four and a half months, and even appears to submit to the possibility of a Taliban-led government, by extracting promises that the Taliban will not provide “visas, passports, travel documents or asylum” to those threatening the U.S. and its allies. This appears to sideline the “Intra-Afghan” dialogue, and India’s support for the election process for leadership in Afghanistan. In the last section of the agreement, the U.S. and Taliban seek “positive relations with each other and expect that the relations between the United States and the new post-settlement Afghan Islamic government as determined by the intra-Afghan dialogue and negotiations will be positive”.

Afghan govt. in peril?
This indicates that the Ghani government, which India has recognised as winner of the 2019 election [Interesting because not even all Afghans recognize that as legit govt because of the Ghani-Abdullah split] , will only serve for an interim period. This also raises a big question mark on the future of Afghanistan’s government, and whether it will remain a democracy. “The bottomline is that India cannot look at the agreements or the route to Kabul via Washington’s view,” said Mr. Arni. [Really, the cat is out of the bag for the world to see. A senior guy from India's premier intelligence agency, talking to an Indian news outlet, admitting that there was no real pro-Afghan or pro-American love-fest in India to begin with--it was ALL ABOUT encircling Pakistan all along!]

Above all, experts warned the Afghanistan-Pakistan dialogue facilitated by the U.S. on cross-border terrorism and mechanisms must not cut India out of the region’s security architecture.
 
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They say that keep your friends close--but your enemies closer. In the spirit of that, here is an article from an Indian source. BTW, 'The Hindu' and the 'Dawn' from Pakistan and India respectively are very good news outlets.

I have tried to make some text red below to draw attention. Well, they maybe red flags for India ;) My comments in brackets [] in red.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/inter...over-us-taliban-agreement/article30958002.ece

Experts raise concerns for India over U.S.-Taliban agreement

The proposed Afghanistan-Pakistan dialogue, facilitated by the U.S., must not cut India out of the region’s security architecture, warn experts
New Delhi has signalled its acceptance of the U.S.-Taliban and U.S.-Afghanistan peace agreements in Doha and Kabul that aim to end the 18-year war in Afghanistan, by sending envoys to witness them.

Also read | U.S. strikes a deal with Taliban to end 18-year-long Afghan war

The two agreements set out a course for the next 14 months, including the pull-out of U.S. troops, the denial of space to foreign terrorist groups and any violence against the U.S. and allies, and intra-Afghan dialogue.


However, after a closer look at the texts of the two agreements distributed to news agencies, named the “Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan between the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognised by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban, and the United States of America”, and the “Joint Declaration between the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan and the United States of America for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan”, diplomatic and security experts say the impact on India may be a cause for worry for the government.

Terms still nebulous
“The reduction in violence is a much-needed respite for Afghans,” said Amar Sinha, National Security Advisory Board member and former Ambassador to Afghanistan.

Also read | U.S.-Taliban agreement | India hails peace deal in “contiguous neighbour”

However, Mr. Sinha added that “all Taliban demands have been front-loaded, while the actual terms of the ‘peace deal’ are yet to be negotiated between the Taliban and the Afghan side, facilitated by the U.S. So, much of the heavy lifting remains.”

More critical of the agreement, Anand Arni, former Special Secretary in the Research & Analysis Wing, who worked closely on Indian policy in Afghanistan, said it was “entirely one-sided”. “Taliban cannot deliver on the assurances it has given, and yet the U.S. has handed over Afghanistan to them. There is no reference to the Constitution, rule of law, democracy and elections,” [Frankly, Indians wouldn't care for 'democracy' blah blah in Afghanistan. Have SOME honesty guys!'] he said.

The salient points of concern are:

Does the term “U.S. and Allies” include India?
In the Doha agreement, the Taliban has guaranteed “enforcement mechanisms that will prevent the use of the soil of Afghanistan by any group or individual against the security of the United States and its allies”. However, it is unclear whether India, which is not a U.S. ally, is included in this definition, and whether Pakistan-backed groups that threaten India, would still operate in Afghanistan. The Kabul declaration with the Ghani government more specifically commits to stopping “any international terrorist groups or individuals, including al-Qa’ida and ISIS-K, from using Afghan soil to threaten the security of the United States, its allies and other countries.”

Impact of prisoner release and lifting sanctions
Officials worry most about the “mainstreaming of the Haqqani network”, which Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorists reportedly fight alongside and were responsible for the 2008 bombing of the Indian embassy in Kabul. According to the agreements, 5,000 Taliban prisoners will be released by March 10, 2020, the first day of intra-Afghan negotiations, and the remainder in another three months. Officials also point out that the U.S. has committed to taking Taliban leaders off the UN Security Council’s sanctions list by May 29, 2020, which could considerably bring down the number of terrorists Pakistan is accused of harbouring, according to the FATF greylist conditions. This might benefit Pakistan during the June 2020 FATF Plenary, when it faces a blacklist for not complying.

Handing powers to Taliban
In the Doha agreement, the U.S. has committed to clearing five bases and bringing troop levels down to 8,600 in four and a half months, and even appears to submit to the possibility of a Taliban-led government, by extracting promises that the Taliban will not provide “visas, passports, travel documents or asylum” to those threatening the U.S. and its allies. This appears to sideline the “Intra-Afghan” dialogue, and India’s support for the election process for leadership in Afghanistan. In the last section of the agreement, the U.S. and Taliban seek “positive relations with each other and expect that the relations between the United States and the new post-settlement Afghan Islamic government as determined by the intra-Afghan dialogue and negotiations will be positive”.

Afghan govt. in peril?
This indicates that the Ghani government, which India has recognised as winner of the 2019 election [Interesting because not even all Afghans recognize that as legit govt because of the Ghani-Abdullah split] , will only serve for an interim period. This also raises a big question mark on the future of Afghanistan’s government, and whether it will remain a democracy. “The bottomline is that India cannot look at the agreements or the route to Kabul via Washington’s view,” said Mr. Arni. [Really, the cat is out of the bag for the world to see. A senior guy from India's premier intelligence agency, talking to an Indian news outlet, admitting that there was no real pro-Afghan or pro-American love-fest in India to begin with--it was ALL ABOUT encircling Pakistan all along!]

Above all, experts warned the Afghanistan-Pakistan dialogue facilitated by the U.S. on cross-border terrorism and mechanisms must not cut India out of the region’s security architecture.
That’s a valuable input to the discussion.
This further confirms my confusion to draw some sort of conclusion.

USA submitted totally as if it REALLY is eager to run away or could be that it is playing some very bad game...

Removal of 4400 troops and still leaving behind 8600 won’t disrupt the mass balance to much extent, 8600 heavily armed troops are still big threat to any country...

But exchange of POWs does make this deal seam legit from both sides. The point remains is the timeline of the exchange of these prisoners, for this to work out smoothly, the exchange should be the last thing to be done i.e during or just after the 14th month. This will keep both parties in check and will act as a reason to discourage any sort of engagement just for the sake of the POWs
 
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But exchange of POWs does make this deal seam legit from both sides. The point remains is the timeline of the exchange of these prisoners, for this to work out smoothly, the exchange should be the last thing to be done i.e during or just after the 14th month. This will keep both parties in check and will act as a reason to discourage any sort of engagement just for the sake of the POWs

You are correct that the exchange makes the deal seem more 'legit' and IMHO is the most solid indicator of the deal reaching a point of no return IF the prisoners are exchanged within next few months. Also, IMHO the early prisoner swap is a Taliban demand.
The Ashraf Ghani administration KNOWS that once the thousands of Taliban prisoners are released then a point of no return will have reached--sealing the deal and eventually sealing the fate of the administration. And hence the administration is not so thrilled about it.
 
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The last time Afghanistan was United was under a King - Zahir Shah who was then ousted and the rest is history. 42+ years of fracticide.
USA found an opportunity in a internally weak and broken Afghanistan thanks to civil war, A blessing Pakistan and Turkey has is a unified nation. Multiple powers tried their level best to introduce civil wars but failed...

The day Afghanistan Unites internally would be the last day for a foreign soldier to breath in Afghanistan.
 
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There is a huge problem with the timeline... that is, next presidential elections are due in about seven months and next president will take oath in nine. Which means it is open for debate, subterfuge and possible termination by either this administration or however the election goes the next one. Which does not give a lot of hope. In the meantime Afghanistan domestic dynamics may start changing in accordance with shifting tides...
 
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Wa antum a'alouna in quntum mo'mineen.


Yar tumhari rang barangi postein dekh kar bari entertainment hoti hai.
Focus in the content, not the book. His words are cyphered, it is always interesting to read such deep posts
 
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Well We have to wait and see the outcome of this deal. There is so much burdens and responsibilities lie with Taliban in terms of violence reduction and restoring peace. It is such a fragile deal with so many spoilers both inside and outside of Afghanistan. The Iranian, the Indian and the northern alliances all are against Taliban and don’t wanna see them in power sharing structures in Government. Any major violence incident in Afghanistan, all the fingers will be pointed out towards Taliban and then Pakistan subsequently even though Taliban doesn’t have much Pakistani influence now. Another key factor will be internal power struggle between Dr Abdullah and Ghani . Both have to come to some kind of terms if this deal has to work along with upcoming US election as well.
 
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Well We have to wait and see the outcome of this deal. There is so much burdens and responsibilities lie with Taliban in terms of violence reduction and restoring peace. It is such a fragile deal with so many spoilers both inside and outside of Afghanistan. The Iranian, the Indian and the northern alliances all are against Taliban and don’t wanna see them in power sharing structures in Government. Any major violence incident in Afghanistan, all the fingers will be pointed out towards Taliban and then Pakistan subsequently even though Taliban doesn’t have much Pakistani influence now. Another key factor will be internal power struggle between Dr Abdullah and Ghani . Both have to come to some kind of terms if this deal has to work along with upcoming US election as well.
How do AFT view iran ?
@Mangus Ortus Novem Does USA’s “Bad Guys” hint towards Iran?
 
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We can divide parties on the basis of two subjects like 1) interested in Afghanistan and 2) parties with their own/personal interests only.

What we are looking at is that there is going to be a stable & peaceful Afghanistan while the history also predicts further that it wouldn't be possible till existing of people with their own set of interests/greed.

Ashraf Ghani has already started to show his true colours and that is only because he knew nothing going to save him unless a continued conflict. His advisers & most probably the sponsors like Indians; aren't going to let it happen so easily. Ghani is merely a face of an ideology/mafia that wishes the continuous unstable yet anti Pakistan environment in Afghanistan. It is a fact that Ghani has no power to face Taliban if it comes to conflict without NATO/
US support but such conflict will then surely deteriorate situation further ensuring what Ghani & Co wants.

On the other hand, US, Taliban, Pakistan, China, Russia & Iran will definitely want it to be a peaceful land unless some international tensions cools down. Iran doesn't want a burning backyard in Afghanistan and it may be too late for Tehran to not to understand the same. Even though everyone has own stakes but Afghanistan neighbors aren't interested in further instability at all. The one that will definitely pursue the conflict route, is no one else but drug lords, northern alliance, proxies & people like Ghani that has no interest but to rule and earn a lot. Everyone knows how such setup was imported by US/NATO starting with Karzai.

Are we missing a point here? Yes,... as far as I see. Why would US want a stable Afghanistan when it has no border to share nor any benefit from peace but that will in-fact ensure that US is no more in Afghanistan which is supposedly a bufferzone and so also a permanent base presence for many of them to keep a check in Asia for China, Russia, Pakistan & Iran. What I see after reading into Ghani, who himself cannot even eat without permission from D.C will yet oppose Peace Deal within hours when signed between US & Taliban. That is a sign of an upcoming game being played where other parties will be dragged in a long diplomatic drive merely to say that actually Northern Alliance, Ghani, those war lords & drug peddlers aka ANA majority is not paying heed to the Agreement and then the conflict & unrest will continue which will take years to come and not just 14 months of US exit.

If what I fear is going to happen, which may have very less of chances; will definitely drive everyone off the track to peace but on other hand I see that serious heads/concern parties which includes an Asian Bloc are going to do everything & anything to ensure peace even if it has to be done by slapping Ghani. The picture will become more clear in upcoming days and not to forget that Taliban has no issue even if Ghani or anyone else does not abide by the Agreement or wants to continue conflict but that is a major loss for Afghan people unlike the imported puppet regime. There is a strong & I think a well organized/planned/supported expect by the big guns in this regard that I will not express my opinion merely to save it from further confusion and uncertainty. However, all I will say that the apparent position, such statement by Ghani, the frustrated & desperate lot with their actions; proves what I think and that is going to help a lot to pin them down further. I see that disrupting forces/hostile elements/pawns/anti Peace elements, terrorists & their sympathizers are going to regret a lot of their actions & will be disappointed big time in coming times. Perhaps it's just a break from wider or bigger conflict but whats coming next has pretty much painted the picture only for those who can understand and see that no matter how big or to say strong you are, you cannot do anything but fear the outcome for you.
 
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