Dog Fight Abilities/Maneuverability of....

[drunken-monke]

It would come down to the finale between Eurofighter and Su 35...

Question is why??

Both aircrafts have very less rcs hence detecting them at longer range is difficult. Once they have been in range of respective radars, use of BVR and ECM and ECCM would be effective... Even after thy survive this them WVR dogfight having about 60-90 degree off boresight IR missles would come in to action... Advanced chaffs may play in the role... Now it would be between agility of Eurofighter and supermanuverability of Su35BM... Better the pilot and tactics, they fighter would be winner...

Having said above, all the fighter jets are good candidates for WVR fight, its just the situation, armaments and pilot skill..

 

[BDforever]

It would come down to the finale between Eurofighter and Su 35...

Question is why??

Both aircrafts have very less rcs hence detecting them at longer range is difficult. Once they have been in range of respective radars, use of BVR and ECM and ECCM would be effective... Even after thy survive this them WVR dogfight having about 60-90 degree off boresight IR missles would come in to action... Advanced chaffs may play in the role... Now it would be between agility of Eurofighter and supermanuverability of Su35BM... Better the pilot and tactics, they fighter would be winner...

Having said above, all the fighter jets are good candidates for WVR fight, its just the situation, armaments and pilot skill..

I am still fan of F-15 eagle , damn legend of its kind.

Performance

Maximum speed:
High altitude: Mach 2.5+ (1,650+ mph, 2,665+ km/h)
Low altitude: Mach 1.2 (900 mph, 1,450 km/h)
Combat radius: 1,061 nmi (1,222 mi, 1,967 km) for interdiction mission
Ferry range: 3,450 mi (3,000 nmi, 5,550 km) with conformal fuel tanks and three external fuel tanks
Service ceiling: 65,000 ft (20,000 m)
Rate of climb: >50,000 ft/min (254 m/s)
Wing loading: 73.1 lb/ft² (358 kg/m²)
Thrust/weight: 1.12
hard point: 11

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Dogfighting-manuevreability.

1.su-35.
2.Eurofighter typhoon
3.Su-30mki

then rest,in case of mig-29 it depends if it has TVC or not.If yes then manuevrability goes higher.

 

[EAK]

F-16 A unicorn In my list

 

[Foo_Fighter]

Bhai, am a bit confused by your post, how do you know Su-35 is the best when you don't know the other stuff???

oh sorry, did not see it.



do not know other stuff.

 

[drunken-monke]

I am still fan of F-15 eagle , damn legend of its kind.

Performance

Maximum speed:
High altitude: Mach 2.5+ (1,650+ mph, 2,665+ km/h)
Low altitude: Mach 1.2 (900 mph, 1,450 km/h)
Combat radius: 1,061 nmi (1,222 mi, 1,967 km) for interdiction mission
Ferry range: 3,450 mi (3,000 nmi, 5,550 km) with conformal fuel tanks and three external fuel tanks
Service ceiling: 65,000 ft (20,000 m)
Rate of climb: >50,000 ft/min (254 m/s)
Wing loading: 73.1 lb/ft² (358 kg/m²)
Thrust/weight: 1.12
hard point: 11

F15 C is a darling fighter plane... But it is altogather different class.. It is a heavy class fighter jet with air-superiority establisment toy with huge AESA radar and for BVR engagement.. f16 is better for dogfight than f15....

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

if u dont have anything substantial to contribute then keep your mouth shut n learn.

If i had knew the answers i wouldnt have asked this.

and i have already told in thread how to discuss this, ie Maneuverability.



in my opinion JAS-39 Gripin C and Euro fighter r best when it comes to Dog fights.

this is not a good way to start a thread, you should have provided info about turn rate, sustained turn rate,short range weapons used by each fighters, off bore sight, HMD, t/w ratio,number of pilots,physical size of jet,angle of attack, radar and other detection systems, and lot more things, expecting others to do the work for you is a lazy way of starting a thread..ask any moderators here, if you think I am wrong.

 

[drunken-monke]

this is not a good way to start a thread, you should have provided info about turn rate, sustained turn rate,short range weapons used by each fighters, off bore sight, HMD, t/w ratio,number of pilots,physical size of jet,angle of attack, radar and other detection systems, and lot more things, expecting others to do the work for you is a lazy way of starting a thread..ask any moderators here, if you think I am wrong.

You can't come to a point of WVR fight without surviving BVR... Here while we discuss WVR capacity of a fighter jet, we should discuss about its ability to survive BVR first...

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

You can't come to a point of WVR fight without surviving BVR... Here while we discuss WVR capacity of a fighter jet, we should discuss about its ability to survive BVR first...

but OP Want to know about WVR only.

 

[BDforever]

Bhai, am a bit confused by your post, how do you know Su-35 is the best when you don't know the other stuff???

based on available info

 

[drunken-monke]

but OP Want to know about WVR only.

But for coming to WVR fights one has to survive the BVR... Doesn't the point conveyed???

Mig 21 is a very good point defence aircraft.. During code India (i guess i am correct in stating the war game.)1 on 1 fight with F15, didn't mig scored a kill.. Does that mean a mig would survive onslaught by f15 charged at it from about 80 km with AMRAAM Aim 120D..

 

[Foo_Fighter]

Ohh ok ok.. I though you don't know about the other planes in the list... how dumb of me

based on available info

 

[BDforever]

Ohh ok ok.. I though you don't know about the other planes in the list... how dumb of me

i meant other stuff as full info about electronics systems.

 

[cloud_digger]

All the jets mentioned above have good short range missiles with good offbore sight capability.

So I give then equal marks + 60-70% luck+ situation awareness + 30-40% pilot capability.



Not allways, you have limited 'bullets' in BVR

Hi, the BVR missiles may be limited, but so is they enemy. The enemy will not swarm you with dozens of fighters. Those days are gone. Strike packages contain at the most a squadron of aircrafts. Suppose a package is detected early on, and 4 EF are sent to intercept, each with say atleast 4 BVR, that 16 missiles. I read that usually in BVR tactics 2 missiles are fired against every fighter, to increase kill probability, I might be wrong. That itself means you have the chance to take out 8 fighters. Of-course there are a ton of other factors, AWACS, etc.


@BDforever

To even cross 120 KM, a fighter cruising at Mach 2 (2450 KMPH) needs 2 full minutes, enough time for an AWACS to detect and direct a BVR attack.
The fact that BVR missiles are carried by fighters means there is credibility to these missiles. If not all fighters would be carrying only WVR missiles, they would not waste valuable hard points. In a literally kill or be killed scenario, if the chance exists to take out your opponent at long range, would you not go for it?

 

[Cat12345]

NONE.

These aircraft haven't been proved in dogfights or neither have been in combat. Sure they have pretty cool manuvers at airshow but that's to please the crowd a little bit. There's no most manuverable aircraft. They are all manuverable. When your dogfighting another opponent in actual combat then we'll determine which ones the best dogfighter. The one that has been most proven is the F-16 in combat.