Dog Fight Abilities/Maneuverability of....

[Umair Nawaz]

NONE.

These aircraft haven't been proved in dogfights or neither have been in combat. Sure they have pretty cool manuvers at airshow but that's to please the crowd a little bit. There's no most manuverable aircraft. They are all manuverable. When your dogfighting another opponent in actual combat then we'll determine which ones the best dogfighter. The one that has been most proven is the F-16 in combat.

yes f-16 is legend. Too bad its going to be replaced by F-35 series. But F-16A/B r the most maneuverable in F-16 family not the F-16C?D and F-16F and later versions.

In my opinion the JAS-39 C and EF typhoon r best in the list.

this is not a good way to start a thread, you should have provided info about turn rate, sustained turn rate,short range weapons used by each fighters, off bore sight, HMD, t/w ratio,number of pilots,physical size of jet,angle of attack, radar and other detection systems, and lot more things, expecting others to do the work for you is a lazy way of starting a thread..ask any moderators here, if you think I am wrong.

I dont know thats why i was asking.

 

[Domobran7]

Why do people still talk about "dog fights" and such....? it's the new era people, where almost all planned engagements are BVR. It's like doing a dance in front of a sniper sitting hundred yards away, you are bound to get a bullet in your head.

All engagemens happened at BVR recently, but it was against, to put it mildly, incompetent, opponents (seriously, I'd rather bet on Luftwaffe pilot in F-4 than on Saudi pilot in Eurofighter Typhoon - and Iraqis were even worse than Saudis, if such thing is possible). Successful BVR engagement versus competent opponent is boy no means assured.

Of listed aircraft, Gripen and Typhoon are best dogfighters. Relative to each other, Typhoon has lower wing loading and higher thrust to weight ratio, but Gripen is lighter and drags less when turning (better aerodynamics). Both use same weapons - BK-27 and IRIS-T, which are quite good. Typhoon also has better rearward visibility.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

All engagemens happened at BVR recently, but it was against, to put it mildly, incompetent, opponents (seriously, I'd rather bet on Luftwaffe pilot in F-4 than on Saudi pilot in Eurofighter Typhoon - and Iraqis were even worse than Saudis, if such thing is possible). Successful BVR engagement versus competent opponent is boy no means assured.

Of listed aircraft, Gripen and Typhoon are best dogfighters. Relative to each other, Typhoon has lower wing loading and higher thrust to weight ratio, but Gripen is lighter and drags less when turning (better aerodynamics). Both use same weapons - BK-27 and IRIS-T, which are quite good. Typhoon also has better rearward visibility.

if i ask u to choose between Gripen C and Typhoon in maneuverability, whom will u choose?

 

[vostok]

Probably, the Su-35 should be excluded from the list because it is out of competition. And among the rest, I would choose the Gripen and F-16.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Probably, the Su-35 should be excluded from the list because it is out of competition. And among the rest, I would choose the Gripen and F-16.

Su 35 is in same class ie 4.5+++ generation.

and if u were to chose b/w Gripen and f-16 in dogfight whom will u chose.

 

[vostok]

Su 35 is in same class ie 4.5+++ generation.

and if u were to chose b/w Gripen and f-16 in dogfight whom will u chose.

Su-35 - the only plane in this list which has thrust vectoring, so it is absolutely another level of maneuverability.
I do not know, both are good enough.

 

[BDforever]

Su-35 - the only plane in this list which has thrust vectoring, so it is absolutely another level of maneuverability.
I do not know, both are good enough.

Mig-35 also has thrust vectoring

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Su-35 - the only plane in this list which has thrust vectoring, so it is absolutely another level of maneuverability.
I do not know, both are good enough.

So Su35 is best in the list?

 

[Nexus]

any basis of yr opinion?

by his mind

 

[vostok]

Mig-35 also has thrust vectoring

Mig-35 not in the list.

So Su35 is best in the list?

Surely. Su-35 has maneuverabiliry of 5 generation and supersonic cruise speed.

 

[Domobran7]

if i ask u to choose between Gripen C and Typhoon in maneuverability, whom will u choose?

Probably Gripen.

Su-35 - the only plane in this list which has thrust vectoring, so it is absolutely another level of maneuverability.
I do not know, both are good enough.

TVC is only useful for fixing aerodynamic shortcomings, but on its own it can't make aircraft superbly maneuverable.

 

[vostok]

Probably Gripen.
TVC is only useful for fixing aerodynamic shortcomings, but on its own it can't make aircraft superbly maneuverable.

Have you ever saw the Su-35 video? No 4 gen fighter even close to it.
Even Su-27 can do things impossible to Western jets.
From wiki

Though a high thrust-to-weight ratio and high aerodynamic maneuverability are found on both aerodynamic and supermaneuvering aircraft, the technology most directly linked to supermaneuverability is thrust vectoring, in which the geometry of the exhaust nozzle of a traditional jet engine can be modified to angle the engine's thrust in a direction other than directly to the rear (i.e., upwards or downwards).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermaneuverability

 

[500]

Su-35 - the only plane in this list which has thrust vectoring, so it is absolutely another level of maneuverability.

TVC is needed for low speeds, not much usable in combat.

And among the rest, I would choose the Gripen and F-16.

Gripen has low thrust/weight ratio.

 

[vostok]

TVC is needed for low speeds, not much usable in combat.

In dogfight you meen?
supermaneuverability, thrust vectoring, cruise supersonic speed - of crucial importance In dogfight.

 

[Domobran7]

Have you ever saw the Su-35 video? No 4 gen fighter even close to it.
Even Su-27 can do things impossible to Western jets.

These are air show maneuvers, useless in combat since aircraft must be flying very slowly to do them - well below corner speed - which leaves it very vulnerable, and secondly any usage of TVC, especially in maneuvers as usually seen on air shows, bleeds off energy very, very fast.

And if you are referring to Cobra, it is one of combat-useless maneuvers, and besides Saab J-35 Draken was well capable of doing it without TVC, as can Su-27.