Does Turkey Benefit From Cold War With Israel?

[Targon]

Turkey-Israel relations will never be the same as the before eventough Isreal accept poltic apology. There will be no longer military exercises and military agreements. 90s and biginnings of 2000s years was a distinc era created and promped by generals and that era already over.


Mavi Marmara assult became a godsend for Turkey to some erase and clear its shame pro-Israel diplomcy past. If Im not mistaken Turkey is firts or second country recognized Israel independence and last country which recognized Algeria independence decleration in the world. What a shame..!

That assault caused Turkey to gain esteem in diplomacy arenas arround the world..Turkey began to make a major breakthrough in the defense industry and in export, tourism as well.

At the moment, neither need to escalating more the crisis nor need reconcilation with Israel.
To be ally with a notorious state just good for losing real allies and creddity.

I'm strictly againts that view, establising foreign policy on religion is stupid as hell, pro-israeli ? so what ? as long as both sides benefits, nothing wrong with it. its just islamists who are looking world from horse blinkers.

 

[TurAr]

I'm strictly againts that view, establising foreign policy on religion is stupid as hell, pro-israeli ? so what ? as long as both sides benefits, nothing wrong with it. its just islamists who are looking world from horse blinkers.

Although i agree with you about how Islamists see the world, but he has some good points. We should focus on our interests rather than the reasons why Islamic countries dislike Israel.

 

[PteX]

Indeed, we have some trust issues with Arabs but that doesn't mean we can not enjoy our enormous economic relationship.
We haven't lost Syria yet, after Assad's departure and if it all goes well, the relationship between Turkey and Syria will be even better than the honeymoon era between Erdogan and Assad.
Apart from the tension that Syria caused, we also have expanding economic relationship with Iran.

The question is, what did Israel lose by cutting its relations with Turkey via some retarded diplomacy and amateur military operations...

We didn't lose anything worthwhile. The Israeli-Turkish relations were doomed when Islamists took over Turkey and started persecuting secularism.
Half-friends we have plenty, while Turkey lost a true friend.
The type of friend whose citizens lined up and down the streets to donate blood to Turks after the 99 Izmit earthquake.

Now you have the Arabs.

 

[PteX]

The only thing we know for sure is the fact that Israel has seized all the computers, cameras, and memory cards; moreover destroyed the proofs and repaired the bullet holes in the ship before sending it back, which is a clear indication of it has something to hide.

Everything you are basing on is from Turkish sources who clearly has biased against Israel. Everything from the autopsy to the motives of the "activists".

From UN report: "Of those killed, the report noted, "no evidence has been provided to establish that any of the deceased were armed with lethal weapons"

UN Palmer Report

The commission recognized that the IDF were met with "organized and violent resistance from a group of passengers" upon boarding the vessel and therefore force was necessary for purposes of self-defense

As i've said dozens times, if the intention was killing them, they would be dead already. If you see someone is about to attack you with a stick in his hand, i wouldn't recommened you to use Mozambique Drill on him, since he might just wanted to give you a little beating after your intrusion to his ship.

First off, you can kill a man with a stick. And when someone comes at a soldier with the murder in his eyes, the soldier will not hesitate to take out the threat. I don't know what tactics they taught you in the Turkish Army but in the Israeli Army we are taught to take every threat as a serious one and not to hesitate because it may cost you your life.

And like i've said multiple times, soldiers were stabbed and repeatedly beaten by metal rods and chains, which would have killed any man were it not for the chaos of the operation and the swift response of the commandos who started killing the advancing terrorists.

Agreed, but it is not being the case with Israel.

So you say but the critically injured Israeli soldiers would have disagreed, strongly.

 

[TurAr]

We didn't lose anything worthwhile. The Israeli-Turkish relations were doomed when Islamists took over Turkey and started persecuting secularism.
Half-friends we have plenty, while Turkey lost a true friend.
The type of friend whose citizens lines up and down the streets to donate blood to Turks after the 99 Izmit earthquake.

Now you have the Arabs.

You've lost Turkey, one of the most powerful, stable and influential state in the region. And it is not an ordinary region where a country like Israel could survive without strong friends and connections.

Yeah, you don't need to tell me about the Islamists in Turkey, we're well aware of them. You should focus on your own politicians who does not even know what diplomacy is and how it should be practiced.

A type of friend, who killed our nationals in International waters.

Now we don't have blood of Israeli citizens but the money of Arabs.

 

[TurAr]

Everything you are basing on is from Turkish sources who clearly has biased against Israel. Everything from the autopsy to the motives of the "activists".

Most of my claims are based on my own observation. The booklets on Israeli soldiers, i saw it with my own eyes. I saw the repaired bullet holes, and the cleaned ship as well. And the siezed cameras and computers, is a FACT. The motives of the activists is also based on my own observation, which everyone could come up with. It is a fact that if they wanted to kill the soldiers, they would be dead. I'm sure you don't need the see the pictures of the captured soldiers again?

The commission recognized that the IDF were met with "organized and violent resistance from a group of passengers" upon boarding the vessel and therefore force was necessary for purposes of self-defense

Do not cut it there like the thermal camera of Israel did: ...but stated that the "decision to board the vessels with such substantial force at a great distance from the blockade zone and with no final warning immediately prior to the boarding was excessive and unreasonable.

First off, you can kill a man with a stick. And when someone comes at a soldier with the murder in his eyes, the soldier will not hesitate to take out the threat. I don't know what tactics they taught you in the Turkish Army but in the Israeli Army we are taught to take every threat as a serious one and not to hesitate because it may cost you your life.

And like i've said multiple times, soldiers were stabbed and repeatedly beaten by metal rods and chains, which would have killed any man were it not for the chaos of the operation and the swift response of the commandos who started killing the advancing terrorists.

It further noted that "at least one of those killed, Furkan Dogan, was shot at extremely close range. Mr. Dogan sustained wounds to the face, back of the skull, back and left leg. That suggests he may already have been lying wounded when the fatal shot was delivered, as suggested by witness accounts to that effect." Israel's failure to provide an explanation for or details on this and the other nine deaths was criticized.

Even your state couldn't provided an explanation but used the same empty words that you are using right now.

So you say but the critically injured Israeli soldiers would have disagreed, strongly.

Furkan would've definetely agreed with me, though.

 

[what]

Now you have the Arabs.

Oh man, that had me laughing for straight two minutes. I don't agree with a lot of what you're saying but you a right with the Eartquake. Not a single Arab country was among the first countries to offer help and when they later decided to help it was money mostly.

 

[PteX]

You've lost Turkey, one of the most powerful, stable and influential state in the region. And it is not an ordinary region where a country like Israel could survive without strong friends and connections.

Yeah, you don't need to tell me about the Islamists in Turkey, we're well aware of them. You should focus on your own politicians who does not even know what diplomacy is and how it should be practiced.

A type of friend, who killed our nationals in International waters.

Now we don't have blood of Israeli citizens but the money of Arabs.

The world is better off with 9 less Salafists to corrupt others.

 

[PteX]

Most of my claims are based on my own observation. The booklets on Israeli soldiers, i saw it with my own eyes. I saw the repaired bullet holes, and the cleaned ship as well. And the siezed cameras and computers, is a FACT. The motives of the activists is also based on my own observation, which everyone could come up with. It is a fact that if they wanted to kill the soldiers, they would be dead. I'm sure you don't need the see the pictures of the captured soldiers again?

The only reason, and this is agreed even amongst the Turks, the soldiers were not brutally killed , while they had the chance, was because the saner part of the flotilla "activists" stopped the Islamists from finishing them off.

Do not cut it there like the thermal camera of Israel did: ...but stated that the "decision to board the vessels with such substantial force at a great distance from the blockade zone and with no final warning immediately prior to the boarding was excessive and unreasonable.

The report was also critical of the flotilla, describing it as "reckless". Turkey was criticized as well for not doing more to persuade flotilla participants to avoid armed conflict with Israeli soldiers.

It further noted that "at least one of those killed, Furkan Dogan, was shot at extremely close range. Mr. Dogan sustained wounds to the face, back of the skull, back and left leg. That suggests he may already have been lying wounded when the fatal shot was delivered, as suggested by witness accounts to that effect." Israel's failure to provide an explanation for or details on this and the other nine deaths was criticized.

Even your state couldn't provided an explanation but used the same empty words that you are using right now.

Furkan would've definetely agreed with me, though.

Diary of the "peace activist":

"It is the last hours to martyrdom, insha'Allah. I am wondering if there is a more beautiful thing. The more beautiful thing is only my mother, but I'm not sure. The comparison is very difficult. Martyrdom or my mother? Now, the hall has been evacuated. So far people were not serious, but they have become serious recently."

The autopsy report(Of Furkan) was never handed over to US authorities despite repeated requests to that effect.[21]

 

[Surenas]

Could Turkish economical interests come under fire when it reestablish its diplomatic relations with Israel? I beg to differ.

 

[TurAr]

The world is better off with 9 less Salafists to corrupt others.

This is not Gaza where you can judge people by the look of their face and then execute.

The only reason, and this is agreed even amongst the Turks, the soldiers were not brutally killed , while they had the chance, was because the saner part of the flotilla "activists" stopped the Islamists from finishing them off.

Right, so unlike Israel's claims, that was not a ship full of extremist and terrorist but majority of them were decent people, whom lifes were endangered by the trigger happy commandos of Israel, and some of them were killed which Israel couldn't provide an evidence, as the UN report suggests, whether they were one of the 'sanes' or not...

The report was also critical of the flotilla, describing it as "reckless". Turkey was criticized as well for not doing more to persuade flotilla participants to avoid armed conflict with Israeli soldiers.

True, but that does not change the fact that Israel used excessive and unreasonable force.

Diary of the "peace activist":

"It is the last hours to martyrdom, insha'Allah. I am wondering if there is a more beautiful thing. The more beautiful thing is only my mother, but I'm not sure. The comparison is very difficult. Martyrdom or my mother? Now, the hall has been evacuated. So far people were not serious, but they have become serious recently."

I'm not sure if this is legit or not but even if so, it does not represent the whole ship and can not be used as an excuse to kill 9 people.

The autopsy report(Of Furkan) was never handed over to US authorities despite repeated requests to that effect.[21]

I'm glad they didn't.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

All those dead Kurds seem to be ignored pretty well by the west. So save the hypocrisy.
Israel is targeted by Arab terrorists as Turkey is targeted by Kurdish terrorists.

the Arabs are busy in their own internal "springs" and insurrections; few of them seem to be thinking of israel at the moment

as far as threat assessments, there is no single Arab entity that poses any existential threat to israel

 

[PteX]

This is not Gaza where you can judge people by the look of their face and then execute.

In Gaza, as in here, Salafists met their end too late.

Right, so unlike Israel's claims, that was not a ship full of extremist and terrorist but majority of them were decent people, whom lifes were endangered by the trigger happy commandos of Israel, and some of them were killed which Israel couldn't provide an evidence, as the UN report suggests, whether they were one of the 'sanes' or not...

Did you notice i used the term "saner"? There are mindless animals who act like beasts and there are the intelligent Jew haters who know how to perform in front of a crowd, to present themselves as "human activists".

True, but does not changing the fact that Israel used excessive and unreasonable force.

Excessive force would have been to bomb the entire ship. This was a very restrained response to a ship filled with those wishing to be "martyred".

I'm not sure if this is legit or not but even if so, it does not represent the whole ship and can not be used as an excuse to kill 9 people.

If everything is a conspiracy theory when i disprove your ideas of their innocence, then why are we having this conversation?

This diary entry was posted all over Turkish sites and 7/9 killed in flotilla expressed their desire to die as Shahids in this provocation.

I'm glad they didn't.

True, they didn't. Which tells you more than enough of how much "truth" the Turkish government wished to share with the public.

the Arabs are busy in their own internal "springs" and insurrections; few of them seem to be thinking of israel at the moment

as far as threat assessments, there is no single Arab entity that poses any existential threat to israel

True, the Arabs lost their leading role in the destruction of Israel. Now that title goes to the Iranians who use the Arabs as a tool to destroy Israel.

And let's be honest, those are Siberian winters, not "springs".

 

[Surenas]

True, the Arabs lost their leading role in the destruction of Israel. Now that title goes to the Iranians who use the Arabs as a tool to destroy Israel.

Its quite the other way around. The Iranians use Israel as a tool to 'win' the Arabs.

 

[PteX]

Its quite the other way around. The Iranians use Israel as a tool to 'win' the Arabs.

They are pawns.