does israel have the right to exist?

[Burger Boy]

Simple question.


Was 47 deal better than 67?
Was 67 deal better than 93?
Was 93 deal better than 2014?



Why it is that one must live in the past.

Time flows fast.

Time to fill the bucket NOW

otherwise your bucket will be empty tomorrow.

Hope you understand this.

I know its in the past but

This zionist version of history which presents the partition plan as fair and equal is simply not true.

Another thing I dislike about the historical narrative of the zionists is the claim that "Arabs started all the wars" and that Israel was simply defending itself.

This is incorrect as, for example, in 1967 it was Israel that launched the first strike on the Arab countries.


Can't really say that Israel/Jews started all the wars either as from what I do know, the conflict can be viewed as a chicken and egg scenario which can be used to characterize violence that started during Ottoman rule.

As the old adage goes: "History is written by the winners"

Yes I agree with you that we must not live in the past and that there should be efforts to create peace through a two-state solution and for this both sides will need to make some concessions, and it will be the responsibility of moderates on both sides to make sure that peace last.

But that doesn't mean that history should be forgotten and written from the point of view of one side.

 

[Skorpian]

So to anyone who believes that Israel should have been created. Let's suppose you're German. Imagine that Germany was the home of every Jew many many years ago, then the Romans came and kicked them. Now after many many years of Jews migrating, they wanna come, kick you out of Germany, establish their Jewish homeland and the whole world is supporting them. The Jews, 80% of whom aren't even native to the land, wanna kick you out to establish their own country just because some bullshit UN that doesn't do shit except kiss America's @ss supports them. Would you, as a German, let them do it? Would you let some people kick you out of your land just because they have a religious book that claims that their land is theirs? That it's given to them by God? I highly doubt you'd give it up.
Now remove Germany and German, insert your country and your nationality and ask yourself the same questions. Would you give your land up because of some people claiming that your country is their God-given state?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Damn! My kind of woman.

Sharm kar. Shaadi hone wala hain teraa.

But yeah she is pretty

 

[gambit]

Yes I agree with you that we must not live in the past and that there should be efforts to create peace through a two-state solution and for this both sides will need to make some concessions, and it will be the responsibility of moderates on both sides to make sure that peace last.

A major component of having peace between neighbors is that both sides must be willing to enforce border security, and if the neighbors have a history of hostile relations, then border security should be highest priority before any other negotiation issue.

Again, take the Egypt-Israeli peace treaty in 1979. Egypt and Israel at that time were responsible states that ably enforced border security. The peace was not easy and Anwar Sadat paid for the peace with his life. In 1981, I saw his assassination on TV. I joined the USAF in 1983. Despite Sadat's death, Egypt remained a responsible state and honored that treaty.

So given the hostile history between the Palestinians and the Israelis, the PA must prove that it is capable of enforcing the CURRENT border security before new demarcation can be negotiated. The Palestinians want the 1967 borders ? Keep the peace on the current ones. Punish violators no matter where they came from. Eject sponsors, such as Iran, that have agendas other than what are beneficial for the Palestinians. On the other hand, Israel must be under pressure to stop new settlements. The current ones can be negotiated later but there must be no new settlements. As long as the Palestinians shows they are UNWILLING to secure the current borders, Israel have no compelling reasons to move beyond the status quo.

 

[livingdead]

why in palestine??
why not a section of germany? poland or russia?

.......if not in palestine then somewhere else.

what abut in bihar - utter pardesh ? this is not the logic man . after giving thousands lives then why not Kashmirs - Palestinians should have country bro ?

biharis and kashmiris were not killed in millions...

 

[qamar1990]

.......if not in palestine then somewhere else.

why in palestine??
why not in the country of their origin? why not a small chunk of russia? or even a small chunk of america?

 

[livingdead]

why in palestine??
why not in the country of their origin? why not a small chunk of russia? or even a small chunk of america?

if not in palestine then somewhere else...

thats quite simple sentence bro. you are not reading it right coz of your presumption about me probably.

It would be better if we dump all Indians in indian ocean and vacate large India for them to settle What you say?

naa.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Lol this is called double standard. They have a single argument you gave more land to Israel then to Palestine even though Jews weren't in majority. How hard is that to understand?

I did not give any land (AFAIK).
The land included the Negev desert, which was considered useless.

The blockade, occupation of land, what gives Israel the right to do that?

Blockade and Occupation are legal Acts of War. As long as there is a war, they can legally continue.
Once a peace agreement is signed, there should be no more Acts of War.

 

[Leader]

Masturbate is right...When I see Pakistanis who lives in their own country in safety say silly things like this...

I wonder how are they coming up with this 'we' nonsense.

wow look at you, probably some american, jumping up and down the tree for Israel and talks about being nonsense !

 

[gambit]

wow look at you, probably some american, jumping up and down the tree for Israel and talks about being nonsense !

I do not identify myself with Israel as in 'we'. I support Israel out of geo-political considerations. Nothing more.

 

[Leader]

I do not identify myself with Israel as in 'we'. I support Israel out of geo-political considerations. Nothing more.

errr.. different reason same "We". infact I think you dont do so, you just follow the course set before you by your stupid govt.

 

[gambit]

errr.. different reason same "We". infact I think you dont do so, you just follow the course set before you by your stupid govt.

Geo-politics is not the same as religion. That is why I also support US-Saudi alliance, even though I find nothing attractive about the country and the culture of Saudi Arabia. If I use the word 'we', it is in the context of that convenient alliance. In your case, what ties do you have with the Palestinians to make you hate the Jews ? Do you know any Jews ? Any Jews ever done any harm to you and Pakistan ? You hate Jews simply for them being Jews and because your religion ordered you to hate. I bet you never set foot outside of Pakistan.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Damn! My kind of woman.

---
dear she is jew.. kafir..

 

[hussain0216]

White jews setting up a colonial state in the middle east!!

We should harass this evil state until the Palestinians are free

All 1.7 billion Muslims and growing

We are not native americans that we will accept such occupation

 

[Ahmad1996]

I know it is going to burn the heck out of my fellow countrymen who so $tupidly support Hummass. Here is the link

Israel is here to stay for a long long time - InshaAllah


..

I used to work for Santa Clara Plastics, maker of semicon wafer processing robotics tools, as a field engineer. We did first installs, modifications and upgrades, replacements of previous vendors' tools, and even maintenance of other vendors' tools after their contracts expired and/or those vendors gone out of business. Intel-Israel was one of our clients, along with names like Texas Instruments, Motorola, IBM, etc.

The most important thing I learned, from an engineering perspective, is that often times you have no choice but to deal with CURRENT issues. Sometimes the customer can afford to do a complete replacement/upgrade. Often times -- not. You fixed problems from their sources, or you create and install band-aids. Anything else is academic and essentially a waste of one's intellectual energy.

Muslims who frets about whether Israel should have been created or not should be put to the fringes of society. They do not have the intellectual capacity to study the history and the problems to create even a band-aid, let alone a long term solution. So they create intellectually useless threads like this one to give themselves a paper thin veneer that they somehow care and are smart enough to 'talk' about the current problems. But in reality, all they want to do is go round and round, like in a traffic circle, to rehash the same arguments over and over again. A complete waste of intellectual energy.

This half truth has been repeated too many times without glossing over some important details.

Yes the Arabs rejected the 1947 partition plan but they did so because the Partition plan was unfair to the Arabs.

The Partition plan allotted 56% of the land to Israel even though Jews made up at best 30% of the population in 1946.

The Jewish population of Palestine increased greatly in the late 19th and early 20th century because of Ottoman and later British administrators encouraged immigration of jews from Europe against the will of the native Arab population.

Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present) | Jewish Virtual Library

Even after this immigration jews still did not make up close to the majority of the population of Palestine in the 1940s.

At the time, the British Mandate of Palestine was divided into districts.

In 1946, Of the 16 districts in the Mandate of Palestine west of the Jordan river, 14 of them, including Jerusalem, had an Arab majority. One district, Haifa, had an Arab plurality. The only district that had a Jewish majority was Jaffa.

Sometimes zionists claim that the creation of Israel was justified because the Jewish immigrants bought the land in Palestine.
This is disingenuous because in 1945, Jews did not own the majority of the land in any of the 16 districts.

In 1945, 4 of the districts had Arabs owning a plurality of the land and in the remaining 12 districts Arabs owned the majority of the land.

So if you ever hear why Arabs rejected the partition plan you should know why, as you can see it was clearly unfair to them as it dispossessed them of the land that was theirs.

Some thinktank you are Fauji, Pakistanis or any other Muslim country will support Israel's right to exist the day the partition is done properly....30% gets 56% land and people who are in majority i.e 70% get 46% land, what were you expecting them to do, celebrate? Its people like you who never understood the Palestinian or the Muslims reason to support Palestinians, people like you who allow Israel to create a nuclear bomb but if someone else starts you have a problem with it, people like you who don't know the meaning of justice. Think about it my friends had the partition been done properly would this problem be ever there? No, Muslims who say they don't support the right of Israel to exist say this mostly in anger due to the unjustice done to Palestinians, they never would have, had the UN played fairly, don't forget UN is a child of America what America says UN follows.