Does India need Secularism?

[Peshwa]

I'd like a state that believes in "god" (a Higher power)...But **** religion(adhering to man-made rules sold as word of god)...

Religion has claimed more lives than any despotic murderous regime or king in history....

But I think that's a bit too much to ask...even from god!

 

[Coltsfan]

we should give away kashmir and convert India to Hindusthan .

You're neither a Hindu nor an Indian for making that comment!

 

[Aka123]

Absolutely!! I am a believer and I believe that definitely there's some power behind all that's happening. But the problem is some low life people use religion as weapon to create disturbance all over the world. This kind of people are present in every religion, who like to spead terms like religion and ethnic supremacy which are bull$hit. Such miscreants should be sent to gallows.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I resisted getting into this intra-Indian debate.

However I see so much "misinformation" being spread around. So here are my 2 cents worth

Congress was not 100% secular. Instead it was "multi-religious" platform. All major Mullahs were in Congress
--- Main funders for Congress were Textile Mill owners
--- Thus it was a party for the mill owners by the mill owners

Muslim League was not 100% religious either. Majority of Mullahs hated Jinnah and declared him Kafir.
--- Main funders for ML were big land lords
--- thus it was a party for the land lords by the land lords


With this quick bullet points,

Let me emphasize that religion was being used by both parties to gather more votes. Congress used Mullahs to gather Muslims votes, Mandirs to gather Hindu upper caste vote, and Harijan slogan was used to gather lower caste votes.

But the real fight was between the old aristocratic land lords (mostly Muslims)

and

Newly rich textile mill owners that were mostly Hindus.


Therefore the core of the tussle was economic.
and lot less religious.


Thank you

I am surprised and amused at reading this. It is amusing to be told after many years of so arguing that Congress was not secular. Perhaps some references to past posts on similar subjects might clear the matter, if it is not clear enough here that there is no claim being made to Congress being secular. Not in the sense, at least, that France is secular.

On the other hand, the supposed rivalry between landlords and mill-owners, and very refreshing it is, too, is really not on. There is sufficient evidence that the Muslim 'salariat' and not the rich landlords formed the backbone of the Muslim League. It is probably true that most rich landlords who were Muslim outside those of the Punjab supported the Muslim League. The argument pales when one considers the uniform opposition to the Muslim League until the eleventh hour from the Punjabi Muslim landlords.

But I forget.

There are certain intellectual functions which are not expected from the rabble of the Gangetic civilisation.

Apologies. I shall hold my tongue on this.

 

[Aka123]

we should give away kashmir and convert India to Hindusthan .

Indian Kashmir is an inseperable part of our country. We don't want to convert India to Hindustan. What India is India is. Period.
Ps - Am a Hindu.

 

[Hashshāshīn]

I'd like a state that believes in "god" (a Higher power)...But **** religion(adhering to man-made rules sold as word of god)...

Religion has claimed more lives than any despotic murderous regime or king in history....

But I think that's a bit too much to ask...even from god!

I think you are forgetting;

Mao Zedong - 78 million killed
Stalin - 30 million killed
Hideki Tojo - 5 million killed
Pol Pot and Kim Il Sung - 4 million killed
Mengistu - 1.5 million killed
Leonid Brezhnev - 1 million killed.

All very religious people, right?

 

[Peshwa]

I think you are forgetting;

Mao Zedong - 78 million killed
Stalin - 30 million killed
Hideki Tojo - 5 million killed
Pol Pot and Kim Il Sung - 4 million killed
Mengistu - 1.5 million killed
Leonid Brezhnev - 1 million killed.

All very religious people, right?

Fair enough...

And I would gladly advocate the elimination of these individuals if they were still alive...just as I advocate that of religion...

All Im saying is that lets not give humans another reason to kill each other than we already have, especially in the name of god.....

 

[nastikan]

I think you are forgetting;

Mao Zedong - 78 million killed
Stalin - 30 million killed
Hideki Tojo - 5 million killed
Pol Pot and Kim Il Sung - 4 million killed
Mengistu - 1.5 million killed
Leonid Brezhnev - 1 million killed.

All very religious people, right?

they are recognized as killers and tyrants. But religion is still celebrated as something divine and peaceful while it has cost as much violence as these tyrants.

 

[Coltsfan]

I think you are forgetting;

Mao Zedong - 78 million killed
Stalin - 30 million killed
Hideki Tojo - 5 million killed
Pol Pot and Kim Il Sung - 4 million killed
Mengistu - 1.5 million killed
Leonid Brezhnev - 1 million killed.

All very religious people, right?

God believers use this flawed logic often.

None of these people killed to promote Atheism/Agnosticism. The prime mover for their actions was them following other ideologies. Being non-religious was incidental.

Its like saying since Stalin has a mustache, having a mustache predisposes one to genocide.

On the other hand, genocides have taken place all over world specifically to promote and with active support of religious entities.

 

[Bang Galore]

Fair enough...

And I would gladly advocate the elimination of these individuals if they were still alive...just as I advocate that of religion...

All Im saying is that lets not give humans another reason to kill each other than we already have, especially in the name of god.....

Doesn't detract from your earlier post. Communism too is a religion for its faithful. Which explains why after so many failures, there are still people clinging on to their "belief".

 

[Aka123]

I think you are forgetting;

Mao Zedong - 78 million killed
Stalin - 30 million killed
Hideki Tojo - 5 million killed
Pol Pot and Kim Il Sung - 4 million killed
Mengistu - 1.5 million killed
Leonid Brezhnev - 1 million killed.

All very religious people, right?

You got confused with barbarism and you are naming few of them.

 

[Peshwa]

Doesn't detract from your earlier post. Communism too is a religion for its faithful. Which explains why after so many failures, there are still people clinging on to their "belief".

Interesting perspective...

come to think of it, the cold war was kinda like a war of religions with one belief fighting the other for dominance..

 

[Coltsfan]

Doesn't detract from your earlier post. Communism too is a religion for its faithful. Which explains why after so many failures, there are still people clinging on to their "belief".

I wouldn't be that quick to make that analogy. By your logic anything that generates passion is a religion, be it cricket, movies, politics or pornography......

The only parallel you can draw is that communism and religion both suppress independent thoughts, questioning, and use indoctrination since childhood.

 

[Bang Galore]

I wouldn't be that quick to make that analogy. By your logic anything that generates passion is a religion, be it cricket, movies, politics or pornography......

The only parallel you can draw is that communism and religion both suppress independent thoughts, questioning, and use indoctrination since childhood.

Do not disagree (not insisting that the analogy is wholly correct) but this isn't about passion alone. If you look at it dispassionately, you would see much of the same things that characterise religion & religious conflicts in it. The same concept of staying true to the ideology, of hounding & punishing opponents (including those who leave) exist. Even the excuses for failure exist. Even the opposition to communism was almost like a religious conflict with communists being hounded. Not completely misplaced, the idea.

 

[sankranti]

Ya, a hindu revolution will bring ocaens of milk and honey into our land

No, however a Hindu Revival will certainly bring back some of the value systems that have been lost in time due to invasions.