Do Pakistan Need a Nuclear Submarine to Check US

[Birbal]

If situation with US goes worst role of air craft carrier in Indian ocean would be important.

DO we need a nuclear sub to check the threat ?

Hell no! The only advantage of a nuclear sub is its range. You don't need to send your submarines too far from Pakistan. Much better to spend your effort working on air independent propulsion. Diesel-electric submarines are quieter and much cheaper than nuclear submarines, though they lack the range and sustained speed capabilities of nuclear submarines.

 

[Varunastra]

If situation with US goes worst role of air craft carrier in Indian ocean would be important.

DO we need a nuclear sub to check the threat ?

not at all at the present moment.........and no hope against the us!!!!............even if pakistan wants to save any assests from any indian carriers........u don't need to worry!!!!.........our relations have greatly improved(mfn status,aid during floods,etc)......i see bright future ahead!!!!

 

[monitor]

with your single master piece how you going to counter the many master piece of your opponent . let alone the hawk you will be back to stone age before you contemplate any thing nuclear with USA . i am not seeing nuclear weapons can deter usa from invading Pakistan . what can perfectly deter any aggression is the national unity of your country .

 

[Mav3rick]

C'mon, get a life! Stop blabbering for a change! Where the heck did you get this figure of $80 billion? Utter rubbish!

Let's know how you have arrived at this nonsensical outlandish figure of $80 billion! You can't! You have just reproduced what some clown has said in some stogy tabloid. Get real and stop living in the clouds.

Various Pakistani analysts & economic experts have stated time and again that Pakistan's lost in the terror war is around US$70-80 Billion. This does not necessarily mean this is the amount we have spent, but also mobilization of military, relocation/migration of million effected, infrastructure destroyed by acts of retaliation, personnel martyred, loss in tourism and investment etc.

 

[I M Sikander]

However, C-803 can be launched almost 250km's away, other cruise missiles could be launched at higher distances still. So unless the Jets are flying CAP in a 500-1000km radius they may just be there for the ride.

There are very effective anti missile systems on aircraft carrier to counter any such attack by cruise missiles or anti ship missiles.

Pakistan don't have tactical nukes.

it may not be possible to sink an Aircraft carrier without a Nuclear strike.

and what do you think will the US sit idle after a nuke attack on its air craft carrier formation.

Let not forget, american are very brutal when it comes to war. They didn't hesitate to nuke Japan twice during WW-II. Lets not give them any excuse to nuke your major cities.

We can hardly kill 2500 to 3000 US soldier by conducting a nuclear attack on their Air craft carrier, however if they retaliate in the similar fashion, millions of people will be killed in Karachi in a single nuke strike.

WE should devise ways to counter US and NATO, but sensibly. without indulging ourselves in to war.

 

[Tshering22]

War with USA = We win the short term. But in long runs, when they come with full force, nearly nothing can stop them.

Anyways Pakistan has inked deal of 6 QING class N.Submarines.

Are you sure? Nuclear submarines can only be leased and not be sold. Anything that has to do with nuclear and weaponized use (be it weapon or propulsion) cannot be sold according to international norm (can't recollect the name of that treaty).

It is possible that you would have signed a deal for conventional submarines misquoted by journalists as nuclear submarines. Fist off, they are killer expensive. Secondly, they cannot be sold or bought.

 

[Super Falcon]

what we need more latest ech killer hunter subs no need nuke subs subs which can sneak under enemy soonar without lating them know death is benesth their foots if we do that and with one power fulll torpedo from subs hits enemy carrier it is over

 

[Last Hope]

Are you sure? Nuclear submarines can only be leased and not be sold. Anything that has to do with nuclear and weaponized use (be it weapon or propulsion) cannot be sold according to international norm (can't recollect the name of that treaty).

It is possible that you would have signed a deal for conventional submarines misquoted by journalists as nuclear submarines. Fist off, they are killer expensive. Secondly, they cannot be sold or bought.

Alright. My bad. Those were on a lease.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Pakistan does have tactical nukes. Let it rest at that.

 

[Last Hope]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-...-class-submarines-china-2-type-054a-ffgs.html

The on going debate was which submarine type is PN getting and the rough guess were for Song or Yuan class submarines but PN is going for Qing class submarines

Quoting from Sir pshamim

Many news reported here about PN's future plans are still langushing for one reason or the other. Like news about U-214 negotiation, we all know were true but final agreement was not signed. Not because the deal is dead but for political and economic reasons. Please believe me that this deal is not dead but on a backburner.

News below is extremely exciting but different in one respect. It was signed during Gilani's visit to China last April. We have heard about the 50 JF-17 but there is very credible report about what PN will be receiving.

Contrary to what has been reported about 039 class "Songs" or 041 class Yuan class, it is the latest variant of 041 class named "QING" class submarines for which a deal was inked for 6.

The first Qing class built for Chinese Navy was launched last year and will be going through the sea trial this month 6/2011 which will include the firing of CJ-10K LACms with a range of 1,500 KM.

QING class submarines The deal was signed between Wuhan-based China State Shipbuilding Industrial Corp (CSIC) and Pakistani Government in April 2011 is for 6 Qing class submarine, These submarines will be double hulled with a submerged displacement of 3,600 tons. It will be equipped with the new Stirling-cycle AIP and will be able to carry upto 3 CJ-10K which could carry nuclear warheds, Other features include hull retractable foreplanes and hydrodynamically streamlined sail. The AIP and the propulsion systems will be all electric and not the diesal electric propulsion system making the submarines very quiet. This propulsion system has already been tested on a number of heavier Chinese submarines.

Also Pakistan has signed a deal for 2 type 054A frigates on a 10 year lease .

Y0454A Frigates The other exciting development is Pakistan has also signed a deal for a 10 year leaso of 2 Type o54A FFGs. The two ships that Pakistan will receive are serial number 525 and 526 inducted in PLAN in 2005

There is also news that China will be transferring two Z9-EC helicopters.

 

[KS]

How will one nuke sub 'check' US ?

Serious question. They have like tens of them.

 

[Mav3rick]

There are very effective anti missile systems on aircraft carrier to counter any such attack by cruise missiles or anti ship missiles.

Correct. However, in such a situation those systems will not only have to deal with multiple 'live' targets as well as numerous 'active' decoys. How many of these missiles can be knocked out....5? 10? Some will get through no matter what. Besides even if the Nukes (armed with proximity fuses) are knocked out, the mini nuclear explosion would knock out many electronic/electrical systems.

Pakistan don't have tactical nukes.

Pakistan has tactical nukes that can be deployed on NASR, let alone an ASCM or Carrier Killer Missile.

and what do you think will the US sit idle after a nuke attack on its air craft carrier formation.

Let not forget, american are very brutal when it comes to war. They didn't hesitate to nuke Japan twice during WW-II. Lets not give them any excuse to nuke your major cities.

We can hardly kill 2500 to 3000 US soldier by conducting a nuclear attack on their Air craft carrier, however if they retaliate in the similar fashion, millions of people will be killed in Karachi in a single nuke strike.

WE should devise ways to counter US and NATO, but sensibly. without indulging ourselves in to war.

Our attack capabilities would only be good for deterrence, if that fails the US will be brutal no matter what we do, or don't do. They don't even spare infants......so why not hurt them as much as we can before we go down. We will go down against them anyway so why not retaliate as much as possible?

By the way consider Iran, it does not have anything that can really counter the US but it's the bold rhetoric and threats that keep the US at bay. On the other hand, if the US was aware that a country has the capability to attack mainland USA and that too with a WMD capable of wiping out entire cities, I am sure the US will refrain from going to war with that country, ever.

 

[Mav3rick]

How will one nuke sub 'check' US ?

Serious question. They have like tens of them.

As explained above, the idea is not to 'defeat' the US military as that is not possible. The idea is to convey the message that we too have the means and the determination to take out as many American assets and American cities us as we can with all available options at our disposal. Point is, we do not want a war that will definitely wipe us out but if that war is ever imposed on us, we will ensure that we exhaust all our Strategic & Nuclear munitions before we go.

 

[KS]

As explained above, the idea is not to 'defeat' the US military as that is not possible. The idea is to convey the message that we too have the means and the determination to take out as many American assets and American cities us as we can with all available options at our disposal. Point is, we do not want a war that will definitely wipe us out but if that war is ever imposed on us, we will ensure that we exhaust all our Strategic & Nuclear munitions before we go.

My point is exactly that.

They have dozens of the latest SSNs (not SSBNs) patrolling the seas to ensure no such thing as you described takes place plus they have unlimited aerial and space based assets looking for the same.

What you are saying might be ok in a Tom Clancy novel --- but realistically it has almost nil chance of going through.

 

[Mav3rick]

My point is exactly that.

They have dozens of the latest SSNs (not SSBNs) patrolling the seas to ensure no such thing as you described takes place plus they have unlimited aerial and space based assets looking for the same.

What you are saying might be ok in a Tom Clancy novel --- but realistically it has almost nil chance of going through.

Well, the US is a country after all and their technology, however supreme and advanced, is still man made so it could be defeated. Besides, the oceans as massive, infact word massive becomes microsomal when you speak of Oceans. Practically it is not possible for the US to have 100% surveillance of the Ocean around it and a single submarine that can sneak through would be more then enough.

Besides, if you read the first 2 pages with the story how a Chinese sub surprised the US Navy you may realize that every technology that we have today can be defeated. Perhaps the US have dominated the world for so long that they have started to believe their military is impenetrable. While they have not faced a worthy opponent for too long and all their targets have been weak countries.