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Divorce at marriage ceremony

Thanks for clearing up as usual and I did not think such a simple thing as wedding gift would be such a big deal. However I am still confused behind the rationale of bride giving the dowry/wedding gift instead of the other way around since in the old days people considered women commodities sadly so this is strange of women giving dowry. I know I am being slightly sexist but doesn't it make the male look pathetic asking for the gift in contrast to wife, I mean they should feel some form of shame asking for imo.

Also small question with respect to personal faith, isn't this practice slightly contradictory to the islamic faith as it certainly does have huge implications on the women's personal being.

Read this wiki page on dowry.... its more to do with the girl leaving parents home and living with boy's parents in a patriarchial society. Buying bride is specific to only arab culture I think.

Here is a list of countries that practice dowry. In Indian subcontinent, its mostly local culture . Even though predominantly hindus/buddists converted they did not change practices.

Dowry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Oh her.

She actually requested her husband to divorce her as she couldnt handle the fact that she was married to a Ghulam.

But later Prophet Muhammad Married her as Hazrat Zayd was his mubola son. Infact Prophet asked Hazrat Zayd for permission when All Mighty ordered him to marry her so to make an example that Mubola Son,Daughter,Parents can marry each other.

The point from this was u can marry yr relatives who r genetically directly/indirectly not related to u.


She still didnt divorced him, nor is this Bengali social worker is pious enough as Hazrat Zainab used to be.

I can't say about the above , but yes a woman can divorce her husband is Islam its called khula

Khula (Arabic: خلع) is with right of a woman to seek a divorce from her husband in Islam

Khula - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Being divorced is as custom as it was getting married at an early age back in the days... Unfortunately.
 
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Dowry is evil custom. I have seen that some educated greedy men went for girls from rich family so that they would bring more dowry/jahazi/furniture/car/household belongings etc which off course will become their property after marriage. Some wealthy people also like to show off their wealth on wedding of their daughter because of which poor people of the society suffer as they are also forced to give something to their daughters even if they could not afford it. Poor father starts stressing years in advance about how he will provide each of his daughters(if he had many) a proper dowry. We really made marriage a very complicated and expensive thing and its not as simple and easy as it used to be in the past

I can't say about the above , but yes a woman can divorce her husband is Islam its called khula

Women cannot give divorce. They can demand divorce from their husband which is called khula as you mentioned in your post..Giving divorce is not same as asking for it :)
 
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If a girl's parents freely give it then it is considered gifts...or that is what I have been told by some Indians...that is ADDITIONAL BONUS to the BOY'S demands...I have even heard crap along these lines:

Humnay baytay ki pervarish ki parhaya ...itna paysa lagaya...usko 30 yrs tak pala...blaa blaa...like the girl's parents brought her up for free :rolleyes:

Gifts EVERY parent who can afford gives...But DOWRY ESP when the guy's side askes unreasonable stuff like a pauper is SHAMELESSLY DISGUSTING and NOTHING LESS

so its a tax for protection? Sounds like gunda tax which Altaf asks for :whistle:

Do you seriously think THAT is justifiable?!

Plus SHE is leaving HER family...Her safe place...She is ALREADY MAKING a sacrifice to fit into a family of unknown! Yet you want her to bring her own house along? Why not the guy go live in the girl's house if he demands so much?!

Mahr is a price given to the girl on Nikkah which IS DECIDED BEFORE THE NIKKAH. It can be as less as a single date fruit to as much as millions depending on the how much the guy can afford...The girl has full haq to ask how much she wants ...1 min you people say guy is the BREAD EARNER...yet you ask the 1 who isnt the earner to pay the one who is earning? Sorry doesnt make sense to me!

Haq mahr is given from an earner to the girl to show he will be able to look after her later on as well...and is given AT NIKKAH not busted or beaten out of the girl...Nor it is something like kissi par ehsaan kiya ....Plus in Islam girls are princesses they are given rights...In case a divorce happens, she has something to restart her life...

Why should only man look after girl? why not other way around? if they are princesses, why should they be given rights? I mean, princess will given the rights to others. In case of divorce, girl can start working like the man does, right?
The fact is, people want to get the best from everything. They want best from tradition and the modern situation to fullfil their needs. Also, they will support their tradition and deride others even when they are both equal in a sense...
 
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I beg your pardon? Says who?

Me and billions around the world for whom Islamic violence has become a serious migraine.

but Something is ALWAYS judged by how it is not not how SOMEONE is using it....if someone misuses something you do not blame the thing or system but that individual because THAT is how a just person is....

Yet you have no qualms about bashing the age old (and revered in our civilization) tradition of dahej without understanding the finer details and genesis of the practice - instead of venting your misplaced ire on the avarice of some who abuse the concept.

How hypocritical is that?
 
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Why should only man look after girl? why not other way around? if they are princesses, why should they be given rights? I mean, princess will given the rights to others. In case of divorce, girl can start working like the man does, right?
The fact is, people want to get the best from everything. They want best from tradition and the modern situation to fullfil their needs. Also, they will support their tradition and deride others even when they are both equal in a sense...

Equal? How is bashing a woman and her whole family giving equal rights? and not to forget how is reminding a woman HOW LITTLE she brought in dowry any form of a :tup:

You want to side your tradition fine...side it but kindly dont cry when people see it doesnt suit the 21st SECULAR society India claims to be!
 
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Me and billions around the world for whom Islamic violence has become a serious migraine.
Billions?! Really what survey showed that? Ahh you mean the thousands who are stuck to the tv and live in their parent's garage...fair answer I believe...

I just want to ask how many countries have you visited to come up with such crap?! Coz tell me 1 person born and/or raised in the West who would support your misogynistic tradition?!

Yet you have no qualms about bashing the age old (and revered in our civilization) tradition of dahej without understanding the finer details and genesis of the practice - instead of venting your misplaced ire on the avarice of some who abuse the concept.

How hypocritical is that?

:rofl: Didnt I already told you to shine some light on the ADVANTAGES of such a misogynistic practice?

I would like to draw your attention to hypocrisy in India which CLAIMS TO BE SECULAR yet juices women for $ as a tradition is given a :tup: now THAT is hypocritical
 
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Billions?! Really what survey showed that? Ahh you mean the thousands who are stuck to the tv and live in their parent's garage...fair answer I believe...

I just want to ask how many countries have you visited to come up with such crap?! Coz tell me 1 person born and/or raised in the West who would support your misogynistic tradition?!

You are mixing issues here. We are discussing the fundamentalist violent migraine from the religion of peace here. Not misogyny. That is being addressed below.

:rofl: Didnt I already told you to shine some light on the ADVANTAGES of such a misogynistic practice?

I would like to draw your attention to hypocrisy in India which CLAIMS TO BE SECULAR yet juices women for $ as a tradition is given a :tup: now THAT is hypocritical

It gives the couple a start in life. By the parent's of the girl, who now have their child's upkeep being taken care of by someone else. They are doing their bit, in a society of equals. No one gets a free ride. Indian society has a lot the West can learn from. Not to mention other lesser more recent civilizations.

And you really need to formulate a cogent argument. What does being secular have anything to do with women's rights?
 
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Women cannot give divorce. They can demand divorce from their husband which is called khula as you mentioned in your post..Giving divorce is not same as asking for it :)
@genmirajborgza786 and @Raja.Pakistani

*sigh*

I beg to differ...Divorce is the very right Islam gives to a woman which other cultures did not....Islam does allow women to divorce a man...she as simple as needs to say I cant tolerate him. Or I cant live with him anymore. Because Islam does not allow forcing 1 to establish a relationship as this leads to other evil.....a woman is very well allowed to divorce but give TALAQ as well as Khulla which in Iraq (I had an Iraqi dormate in UK who whose sis was studying law) both are 1 and the same.

As for Pakistan , where even a drunk man can say 3 talaq in 1 sitting and is considered talaq (when in Islam it is not the case coz 1 has to have to be in a sane state of mind and not forced in order for a talaq to be settled) a woman is not given this right...HOWEVER, if you go to a family court a woman can as easily obtain a talaq within 1 week to 1 mth (got a family friend who got it in 2 weeks)...Islam is not a barbaric religion where a woman has to beg a man to divorce her...Obviously if she wants divorce is coz SHE has a prob with him OR cant live with him and wants out...

WHY ON EARTH will the man abide? He will just have fun prolonging it! Hence, Islam DOES have a way out for women in such crap!

And if a woman fears from her husband contempt or evasion, there is no sin upon them if they make terms of settlement between them - and settlement is best. And present in [human] souls is stinginess. But if you do good and fear Allah - then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted. Surah 4, verse 128
- From Quran

And in Hadith we find traditions like the following:

"Khansa bint Khidhan who had a previous marriage, related that when her father married her and she disapproved of that, she went to the Messenger of God and he revoked her marriage." (Bukhari, Ibn Majah)

"A [girl who was not married] came to the Messenger of God and mentioned that her father had married her against her will, so the Prophet allowed her to exercise her choice." (Abu Da'ud, on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas)
-From Hadith

In case it is the woman's desire to end the marriage, the situation becomes different. Her reasons might be that she has received ill treatment, the husband is unable to sustain her financially or he is sexually impotent. She can prove these defects in front of the judge, then the judge grants her divorce with a full access to all her financial rights.
Also, if the husband was good to her but she does not want to keep on for an emotional reason, then she asks for what is termed khul'. This means to be granted divorce but without any access for financial rights, plus paying back the husband the dowry that he already paid on marrying her.

Laws of Divorce in Islam
 
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You are mixing issues here. We are discussing the fundamentalist violent migraine from the religion of peace here. Not misogyny. That is being addressed below.
You are derailing the thread is about divorce...not YOUR personal issues with Islam...


It gives the couple a start in life. By the parent's of the girl, who now have their child's upkeep being taken care of by someone else. They are doing their bit, in a society of equals.
Were the parents soo rich they wouldnt be burying their daughters...and why cant the man's parents support him? If he cant support himself he really shouldnt marry...how will he supporth is wife? Dont tell me from her dowry :rofl:

No one gets a free ride.
Maybe not in Indian society...

Indian society has a lot the West can learn from.
1 example being how to degrade women? :unsure:

Not to mention other lesser more recent civilizations.
a very old civilization def needs some patching and running into the 21st centry... like most of you think of a 1400 yr old civilization (Islam) not sure how they support an older 1 (Indian)
And you really need to formulate a cogent argument. What does being secular have anything to do with women's rights?
May I suggest the same....secular literally means EQUAL say for EACH GENDER not linked with some tradition which favours 1 gender...
 
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You are derailing the thread is about divorce...not YOUR personal issues with Islam...

If there is derailment, it is because I am responding to what you have written. Do not write, I will not need to respond. There will then be no derailment.

Were the parents soo rich they wouldnt be burying their daughters

An evil evil practice brought to our shores by barbaric nomadic Arab tribes.

...and why cant the man's parents support him? If he cant support himself he really shouldnt marry...how will he supporth is wife? Dont tell me from her dowry :rofl:

The man's parents do not need to support him, or the girl he is marrying. But equally, the girl coming into the home should not be a freeloader either. Hence her parents contribute by giving the young couple a start in life at a stage where incomes always fall short of setting up of home expenses.

Maybe not in Indian society...

I would rather have parents freely choose the family and man their daughters are to marry into, than a society where a 70 year old can buy a 14 year old to freshen his bed.

1 example being how to degrade women? :unsure:

See above.

a very old civilization def needs some patching and running into the 21st centry... like most of you think of a 1400 yr old civilization (Islam) not sure how they support an older 1 (Indian)

Where does Islam manufacture a "civilization" of its own? It borrowed from every civilization it ravaged. Again, I am responding to what you have written. Do not write, I will not then need to respond.

May I suggest the same....secular literally means EQUAL say for EACH GENDER not linked with some tradition which favours 1 gender...

Lets not get into semantics here. When you diss India for being secular (or not secular enough), its pretty clear to all where your attention is focused.
 
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If there is derailment, it is because I am responding to what you have written. Do not write, I will not need to respond. There will then be no derailment.
You brought in Islam is bad and all i did was quote but so far I got a nt a single Chapter or verse! :whistle:

An evil evil practice brought to our shores by barbaric nomadic Arab tribes.
Sati (Devanagari: सती, the feminine of sat "true"; also called suttee) was a social funeral practice among some Indian communities in which a recently widowed woman would immolate herself on her husband’s funeral pyre. The practice was banned several times, with the current ban dating to 1829 by the British. Few reliable records exist of the practice before the time of the Gupta empire, approximately 400 CE.
in 400 CE? Really? BTW, Gupta doesnt sound very Arabic...

The term is derived from the original name of the goddess Sati, also known as Dakshayani, who self-immolated because she was unable to bear her father Daksha's humiliation of her (living) husband Shiva. The term may also be used to refer to the widow. The term sati is now sometimes interpreted as "chaste woman". Sati appears in both Hindi and Sanskrit texts
Nope no Arab introduced that...

Female foeticide, the act of aborting a foetus because it is female, is a major social problem in India where there is a strong preference for sons over daughters.
A recent study found 500,000 unborn girls were being aborted every year. A UNICEF report in 2006 revealed that 10 million girls were killed - either before they were born or immediately after - by their parents from 1986 in India.
The practise is most prominent in Gujarat and the North Indian states, where there are low recorded rates of female children.
Female infanticide, the act of killing unwanted baby girls, is a long-standing cultural problem across the whole of the Indian sub continent owing to the patriarchal nature of society.
Male children are preferred in the belief they will bring wealth and prosperity to the family while female children are often viewed as burdens.
Another factor is the dowry system, where the family of the bride give a large sum of money or valuable goods to the groom and his family.
Although the dowry system has been outlawed it continues to be deeply ingrained in Indian culture.
Families with several daughters can find the practise of paying a dowry a serious burden.
Female foeticide began in the early 1990s as a result of the availability in India of ultrasound techniques capable of determining the sex of an unborn child.
As a result, 80 per cent of Indian districts have reported a greater ratio of male to female children since 1991.
The practise is believed to have led to an increase in human trafficking with women being bought and sold as brides in areas where there are a greater proportion of men.


Newborn baby girl found buried alive in Indian forest in ANOTHER case of female infanticide | Mail Online


The man's parents do not need to support him, or the girl he is marrying. But equally, the girl coming into the home should not be a freeloader either. Hence her parents contribute by giving the young couple a start in life at a stage where incomes always fall short of setting up of home expenses.
Wow what a word to use! :blink: is this the thinking of EVERY INDIAN man?! :blink: Well, it is fine if her parents give...I already said that few pages back...but asking?! Really you support this cheap system?!


I would rather have parents freely choose the family and man their daughters are to marry into, than a society where a 70 year old can buy a 14 year old to freshen his bed. may I remind you what the dailymail article wrote:
The practise is believed to have led to an increase in human trafficking with women being bought and sold as brides in areas where there are a greater proportion of men.


Newborn baby girl found buried alive in Indian forest in ANOTHER case of female infanticide | Mail Online


Where does Islam manufacture a "civilization" of its own? It borrowed from every civilization it ravaged. Again, I am responding to what you have written. Do not write, I will not then need to respond.
Proof? :coffee:


Lets not get into semantics here. When you diss India for being secular (or not secular enough), its pretty clear to all where your attention is focused.

Well, why is it easy to boast secularism when it comes to minorities but suddenly women are even lower than minorities? :unsure:

So far we have read pages of YOUR opinion...NOTHING to support it except YOUR mentality!
 
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