Divides in Indian Society.

[Joe Shearer]

In my opinion, they need to get themselves down from the high horse first; get rid off the superiority complex that has made them ferociously arrogant and also from the self-comforting idea that Hindus can be polarized on religious grounds. This basic observation, apparently they still have not learnt from the last few elections post 2014. What would be the ground strategy for success, may be a resident of those two states can tell better but in my state where assembly election is due only in the next year, they have not even shown little interest in winning a considerably respectable vote share. They are a disorganized, undisciplined lot led by an equally incompetent captain who is just as puzzled as you or me.

Is it too difficult for them to stop acting smart, and to acknowledge the rule of law, stop their lower-rung leaders from taking the law into their own hands, stop their leaders from fomenting trouble on communal lines, stop their leaders from making the most frightfully abhorrent statements, stop their ministers from taking blatantly revisionist decisions, intended quite clearly to denigrate what had happened before them, and to stop acting as if manipulation of the press and providing sound bytes was what good administration was all about?

So Lalu and Nitish again.

And Biharis keep streaming into Maharashtra.

How cute.

You mean only Jamshedpur Biharis are allowed in, Doc?

 

[Spectre]

In my opinion, they need to get themselves down from the high horse first; get rid off the superiority complex that has made them ferociously arrogant and also from the self-comforting idea that Hindus can be polarized on religious grounds. This basic observation, apparently they still have not learnt from the last few elections post 2014. What would be the ground strategy for success, may be a resident of those two states can tell better but in my state where assembly election is due only in the next year, they have not even shown little interest in winning a considerably respectable vote share. They are a disorganized, undisciplined lot led by an equally incompetent captain who is just as puzzled as you or me.

I think the conditions in West Bengal are by design rather than neglect. BJP has no plans to face a vengeful and irrate Mamta Didi for next 5 years. They would have put on a show even if they had a snowball's chance in hell in WB but they don't.

So Lalu and Nitish again.

And Biharis keep streaming into Maharashtra.

How cute.

As long as Mahrashtra is in India it is cute.

 

[scorpionx]

Is it too difficult for them to stop acting smart, and to acknowledge the rule of law, stop their lower-rung leaders from taking the law into their own hands, stop their leaders from fomenting trouble on communal lines, stop their leaders from making the most frightfully abhorrent statements, stop their ministers from taking blatantly revisionist decisions, intended quite clearly to denigrate what had happened before them, and to stop acting as if manipulation of the press and providing sound bytes was what good administration was all about?

What upsets me is that those distasteful remarks on communal lines did not go unproductive completely. Today a good number of moronic posts and a thread had to be dealt with because of their punitive ethnic assault on Biharis. These irregular neo-nationalists and i regret that a number of well respected member too had fallen in line to assume that a loss of BJP is an essential victory for Pakistan, just framing an laughable and absurd opinion based upon twitter trends!! For the right wingers it makes those who did not chose to vote in favor of BJP a necessary admirer of India's arch rival. I hope this absurdity will be stopped before it reaches the ballot box.

 

[nForce]

When we went to IIM Ahmedabad in 1973, Gujarat was already ahead of the rest of india in several vital characteristics. When I stayed in Vadodara through 1984 and a little more, Gujarat was still ahead of the pack.
It was not due to one superhuman who single-handedly cut through the red tape and produced miraculous results. That crap can impress only those who don't see the numbers and don't watch to see who generates those numbers. I have no faith in a system that encourages 'robber baron' type of operations.

You are right in pointing out that Gujarat was already a prospering state and ahead of India. So, the question is what had Modi done.
Facts :
1. As per National Planning Commission report, standard deviation of Annual Growth rate for Gujarat for 1981-82 to 1993-94 was 53.5%, for 1994–95 to 1999–00 was 27%, for 2000–01 to 2004–05 was 24.2 %, for 2005–06 to 2011–12 was 10.4%.Best figures, probably only Assam and Odisha were more than that in the last. We know how deviation works.

Source

2. Average annual growth rate is above 7%. It's a good figure and more than the most of the states in India. It is a credit to maintain a rate too.

3. River interlinking with Narmada, increasing the height of the dam to accommodate for the agricultural needs.

4. Transport facility is better in Gujarat than most of the states, specially roadways. It needs continuous endeavour to maintain that.

5. 24 hours of electricity supply to over 18,000 villages. Hey, I can't say the same about my village or my state.

6. Modi had take a pro business attitude. That helped industries flourish. Glaring example is the case of Tata Nano. While our Didi was shutting it down (BTW, Buddhadeb was equally dumb to forcibly take farm lands), Modi was making space for them creating job opportunities.

Gujarat was a step ahead, your argument is valid. But it is also equally important to keep up the pace. Take the example of West Bengal. Can you name a city other than Kolkata, that people outside the state will recognize ? Probably, a few, a handful will recognize Durgapur. What ever development had been done there, was done at the time of Bidhan Roy. He created Kalyani, Salt lake, durgapur steel city, the industries. Did the next govt. maintain the legacy ? No, they put a lal-jhanda infront of every factory they could find and shut them down!

Modi maintained it, nurtured it and enhanced it. So, give credit where it is due.

@Joe Shearer I don't take sides, or if I have to, I'm in my country's side. But if somebody is doing something good, I will appreciate it and vice versa.

 

[Spectre]

What upsets me that those distasteful remarks on communal lines did not go unproductive completely. Today a good number of moronic posts and a thread had to be dealt with because of their punitive ethnic assault on Biharis. These irregular neo-nationalists and i regret that a number of well respected member too had fallen in line to assume that a loss of BJP is an essential victory for Pakistan, just framing an laughable and absurd opinion based upon twitter trends!! That makes those who did not chose to vote in favor of BJP a necessary admirer of India's arch rival. I hope this absurdity will be stopped before it reaches the ballot box.

The Pakistan thing was a poor gambit from Amit Shah, easily countered. In the end turned out to be a one more nail in the BJP's coffin in Bihar.

It is idiotic to attack your own voters, accuse your own electorate of treason in not so many words.

It was plain and simple black-mail for which Amit Shah out to be thrown in Jail. I am glad people of Bihar gave this particular brand of politics an Unequivocal No.

About Polarization in general via Beef Comments - the results were a mixed bag and in isolation cannot be analysed.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

I thought these kinds of shitty self praising threads were not allowed.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You are right in pointing out that Gujarat was already a prospering state and ahead of India. So, the question is what had Modi done.
Facts :
1. As per National Planning Commission report, standard deviation of Annual Growth rate for Gujarat for 1981-82 to 1993-94 was 53.5%, for 1994–95 to 1999–00 was 27%, for 2000–01 to 2004–05 was 24.2 %, for 2005–06 to 2011–12 was 10.4%.Best figures, probably only Assam and Odisha were more than that in the last. We know how deviation works.

Source

2. Average annual growth rate is above 7%. It's a good figure and more than the most of the states in India. It is a credit to maintain a rate too.

3. River interlinking with Narmada, increasing the height of the dam to accommodate for the agricultural needs.

4. Transport facility is better in Gujarat than most of the states, specially roadways. It needs continuous endeavour to maintain that.

5. 24 hours of electricity supply to over 18,000 villages. Hey, I can't say the same about my village or my state.

6. Modi had take a pro business attitude. That helped industries flourish. Glaring example is the case of Tata Nano. While our Didi was shutting it down (BTW, Buddhadeb was equally dumb to forcibly take farm lands), Modi was making space for them creating job opportunities.

Gujarat was a step ahead, your argument is valid. But it is also equally important to keep up the pace. Take the example of West Bengal. Can you name a city other than Kolkata, that people outside the state will recognize ? Probably, a few, a handful will recognize Durgapur. What ever development had been done there, was done at the time of Bidhan Roy. He created Kalyani, Salt lake, durgapur steel city, the industries. Did the next govt. maintain the legacy ? No, they put a lal-jhanda infront of every factory they could find and shut them down!

Modi maintained it, nurtured it and enhanced it. So, give credit where it is due.

@Joe Shearer I don't take sides, or if I have to, I'm in my country's side. But if somebody is doing something good, I will appreciate it and vice versa.

That's fine, you are being true to yourself, no problem with that.

Now, one step at a time.

What do you think the growth rate figures for Gujarat show? For Modi's tenure and for the earlier period?

 

[Tricktor]

Yes, it is very good that Bihar rejected Modi. It is too bad the rest of India did not do the samething.

Indians are so concerned with Pakistan, when they should be concerned with the evil within, should be concerned with Modi. Pakistan cannot destroy Indian society, Modi is doing that all by himself. The politics of hatred and racism always appeal to the stupid and the poor, so an impoverished area like Bihar rejecting Modi is even more impressive.

 

[nForce]

That's fine, you are being true to yourself, no problem with that.

Now, one step at a time.

What do you think the growth rate figures for Gujarat show? For Modi's tenure and for the earlier period?

There has been a downtrend, obviously. But then again, the figures are better than the most, point to be noted.

An example, a few years back Azerbaijan was projecting a growth rate of 24%. Now that's astounding, thats good. US was projecting somewhere around 4-5% ?
So, will you consider Azerbaijan to be more developing/developed ? As you said, in your previous post, Gujarat was already doing good, back in the 70s. So, isn't it a good thing that it still maintained to be among the top three in 2000s ?

It's the standard deviation I had quoted there.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Yes, it is very good that Bihar rejected Modi. It is too bad the rest of India did not do the samething.

Indians are so concerned with Pakistan, when they should be concerned with the evil within, should be concerned with Modi. Pakistan cannot destroy Indian society, Modi is doing that all by himself. The politics of hatred and racism always appeal to the stupid and the poor, so an impoverished area like Bihar rejecting Modi is even more impressive.

Can we all ask that silly posts be avoided?

Bihar rejected Modi because there was an election. The rest of India did not have simultaneous elections. Too bad.

Indians are mostly concerned with India, not with Pakistan. Only for those times that most Indians are participating in this forum is there much comment about Pakistan; even when Indians participate in the forum, a significant proportion of their posts relate to India-related threads. Take this one, for example.

You are perfectly right in saying that Pakistan cannot destroy Indian society. Also in saying that Modi is doing all that by himself.

You really should not be raising this point: Modi was given an opportunity to gather a section of agitationists and extremists by the hatred generated by the Pakistan deep state, and its various attacks on India.

Lastly, the poor do not always, or invariably, find an appeal in the politics of hatred and racism That is an abominably sudden insult, with as much result as any such insult would gather.

There has been a downtrend, obviously. But then again, the figures are better than the most, point to be noted.

An example, a few years back Azerbaijan was projecting a growth rate of 24%. Now that's astounding, thats good. US was projecting somewhere around 4-5% ?
So, will you consider Azerbaijan to be more developing/developed ? As you said, in your previous post, Gujarat was already doing good, back in the 70s. So, isn't it a good thing that it still maintained to be among the top three in 2000s ?

It's the standard deviation I had quoted there.

The point that I'm trying to make is that the rate was slowing down. So why all the tamasha? Modi took an existing growth rate and slowed it and got praised for it. Good for him.

 

[nForce]

I have said this before, in my other post related to Bihar elections. It's a good thing that BJP lost. It maintains balance. It shows that there is a sound opposition.

For the same reasons, I support the actions of Klaus Fuchs. He did pass the secrets of the atomic bomb to the Soviets. What he did, maintained balance in the World. Otherwise the World would have been unipolar!

 

[scorpionx]

Take the example of West Bengal. Can you name a city other than Kolkata, that people outside the state will recognize ?

Sorry to bump in as I saw the comparison between Bengal and Gujarat. May be the comparison will look more complete if instead of taking number of developed cities in to account only, we labor a bit more to include basic social development indicators like proportion of children enrolled in government schools, multi-dimensional poverty index, female literacy rates, proportion of children who pass simple reading skills, immunization rate, adult women below BMI etc too. My point is, an economic growth is complete only when it shows result in improving the quality of human lives.

 

[Tricktor]

Can we all ask that silly posts be avoided?

Bihar rejected Modi because there was an election. The rest of India did not have simultaneous elections. Too bad.

Indians are mostly concerned with India, not with Pakistan. Only for those times that most Indians are participating in this forum is there much comment about Pakistan; even when Indians participate in the forum, a significant proportion of their posts relate to India-related threads. Take this one, for example.

You are perfectly right in saying that Pakistan cannot destroy Indian society. Also in saying that Modi is doing all that by himself.

You really should not be raising this point: Modi was given an opportunity to gather a section of agitationists and extremists by the hatred generated by the Pakistan deep state, and its various attacks on India.

Lastly, the poor do not always, or invariably, find an appeal in the politics of hatred and racism That is an abominably sudden insult, with as much result as any such insult would gather.



The point that I'm trying to make is that the rate was slowing down. So why all the tamasha? Modi took an existing growth rate and slowed it and got praised for it. Good for him.

LMAO! What the f$ck are you talking about? This is a Pakistani forum, in case you didn't know that. I find it bizarre that you even here, with such an attitude. Why not go to an Indian forum?

Where did I say there wasn't an election? OBVIOUSLY I am saying they rejected Modi by not voting for his government. Honestly, the people who nitpick words so heedlessly, and ignore the crux of the argument are the absolute worst.

Why should I not be raising a point? I'll raise whatever point I want. No Modis rise has far less to do with Pakistan and far more to do with India's own religious extremists. In this case, the fundos in Pakistan are all rationalized by Indian attrocities in Kashmir.

I did not say the poor always find appeal in hate and raism, I said the people that do find appeal in this, tend to be poor and uneducated, and this dynamic is seen all over the world.

 

[nForce]

Sorry to bump in as I saw the comparison between Bengal and Gujarat. May be the comparison will look more complete if instead of taking number of developed cities in to account only, we labor a bit more to include basic social development indicators like proportion of children enrolled in government schools, multi-dimensional poverty index, female literacy rates, proportion of children who pass simple reading skills, immunization rate, adult women below BMI etc too. My point is, an economic growth is complete only when it shows result in improving the quality of human lives.

Ok.. why are the children enrolled in government schools of West Bengal go to Bangalore for job hunting ? Why not other way around ?
What good is your literacy rate if you are continuously voting for a regime for 30 years that did no good but shut down your industries ? What went wrong there ? I know how literacy rate is calculated, as you said, if you want to dig deep, lets do that properly.

@Joe Shearer Will you please ignore that new guy ? Please ?

 

[vsdoc]

Nobody asks that question when the steel produced from Bihar is used in Maharashtra.

The steel is produced in Jharkhand.

By a corporate that's headquartered in Maharashtra.