Diplomatic row jeopardizes $1.5B helicopter deal between Turkey and Pakistan

[SQ8]

Agreed but sooner they will with russian help

Or turkey may ask russia to make few adjusting things for ATAK

Not even close, ATAK has no accommodations for Russian engines and any changes will take a lot of time.
The only chance is that relations smooth out or the US will create another regime change in Turkey.

 

[Maarkhoor]

The subject deal was never finalized and just over curious Turkish and Pakistani media declared that deal was done but in fact only MOU signed to work together to bring some tailor made changes for Pakistan army.

 

[MastanKhan]

Nothing wrong in aspiring to operate the best hardware you can lay your hand on. I doubt this could have been envisaged before hand.

Hi,

Someone near and dear told me some 21 years ago---sometimes the best is not the best---. And I have not looked backed again---.

 

[Super Falcon]

Not even close, ATAK has no accommodations for Russian engines and any changes will take a lot of time.
The only chance is that relations smooth out or the US will create another regime change in Turkey.

Dont think so you cant change your policy for engines
Turkey will find a way dont worry iran is doing it pak oing it no worrie

 

[GriffinsRule]

Calm down folks, the ATAKs will come anyway.

The Italians will step in in case Turks couldnt. They just singed this:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-and-italy-agree-to-explore-joint-defence-production.570675/. The deal will fall through anyway.

Though the Turks will likely have enough engines in the stock to pull out the sale. Remember, around half (15?) of the 30 choppers were either done or being tested.



The Z-10 is an excellent platform and has room for upgrades. it is stable, fast and maneuverable as it has FBW controls. The issues found during trials were nothing major and China can easily overcome them all. We may still see them in PA colors at some point it time. They also asked for a longer range ATGM as BA-9 could only reach six kms whereas minimum requirement was 8 kms.

Still, i suspect we may see the thunderbolts in PA sooner or later.

It is premature to think that the deal to explore possibility of joint defence production will help in the acquisition of engines for the T129. Besides, Turkey and US will get past this spat in the coming few months and we will get the delivery of these choppers inshallah.

As for your view on Z-10, you are wrong on its its strengths unfortunately. Its neither fast nor maneuverable as both these variables are tied to an underpowered engine. As for stable, when the requirement is to be able to hover, which helicopter isn't? Don't see that as a "strength" to be espoused. Given that PA has already inducted a handful of Mi-35s, those are logically the only other helicopter that should be pursued. Z-10 will never see a day in active service in PA on its merits, unless there are massive kickbacks and corruption involved.

For the Thunderbolts, if you are referring to A-10s, then I am afraid you are living in some fairyland. And this is not just for the fact that US will never sell any to Pakistan, but the fact that you want PAF to be the sole operator of an American aircraft and that too of a non-multirole plane that has no room on a modern battlefield unless the side operating it has absolute air dominance (read not PAF vs IAF in any scenario).

 

[alimobin memon]

Doesn't matter to me if this deal goes off shouldn't be problem for relation ship of PakTurk, While the same deal can be taken from Russia or china. People need to realize Pakistan has now 3 countries that offer attack Helicopters not just turkey.

 

[haidian]

It was stupid of Pakistan to go for the sanction prone and what is essentially a European attack helicopter and not the Chinese products on offer.

I mean how inferior can the WZ-10 be compared to the T-129? Or was this an emotional purchase based on Pakistan-Turkey brother countries?

Those machines need parts and maintanence service in the years to come, if any major rows happen between Turkey and US in the future, those choppers will be grounded for good.

Judging from the trend of current US Turkey relationship, that's highly likely. It's not smart to offer your neck to a noose.

 

[tarrar]

This is what I was always talking about that T129 uses US made engine & components but people kept ignoring this.

 

[Arsalan]

This was always a problem, nothing NEWS in this really. The helicopter have US parts and until Turkey can come up with replacement, it will be a risky procurement with a sword of sanction ALWAYS hanging over our heads. Z10 would have been more feasible but unfortunately it had some issues and T129 was preferred technically (one other reason could be diversification)

 

[BRAVO_]

did somebody mentioned turkish indigenous helicopter engines initiated back in 2017 by TEI ????

 

[khanasifm]

Not sure how Much the Ada deal will be impacted ?? At least weapons ??

An engine replacement especially by a brand new engine will take a decade or so ??

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Not sure how Much the Ada deal will be impacted ?? At least weapons ??

An engine replacement especially by a brand new engine will take a decade or so ??

Replacing engines in ship designs is relatively easy so long as the center of gravity is maintained.

 

[cloud4000]

As with the F-35 this will, hopefully, be a temporary problem. There's too much money to be had through these deals to just cancel them. Everybody loses here.

 

[flameboard]

It was stupid of Pakistan to go for the sanction prone and what is essentially a European attack helicopter and not the Chinese products on offer.

I mean how inferior can the WZ-10 be compared to the T-129? Or was this an emotional purchase based on Pakistan-Turkey brother countries?

I don't think sanctions are in place yet. The answers to your question is probably the reason as to why Pakistan already uses American helicopters and continues to do so

 

[帅的一匹]

I'm shocked how Pakistani military always manages to make such shortsighted decisions even when the country is being bombed by 420 American drone strikes. Where is the sense in that?

those T 129 will be hanger queen in war time