Diplomatic row jeopardizes $1.5B helicopter deal between Turkey and Pakistan

[Pakistani Aircraft]

Hi,

Thank you for your post----.

There is never an end to bad decisions by the Pak military---. The sanctiosn were obvious---.

where are those idiots on this board who maintained that nothing would happen between Turkey and USA---.

I'm shocked how Pakistani military always manages to make such shortsighted decisions even when the country is being bombed by 420 American drone strikes. Where is the sense in that?

 

[Quwa]

This was an expected byproduct of getting the ATAK as its a fairly sophisticated machine that still used a lot of US made components(for that matter so does the SAAB erieye, C-130, Radars and every radio in Pakistan)
But, the issue here is that Pakistan is an unwitting casualty in a third country dispute.. a better word for it is just bad luck rather than the idiotic accusations flying around.

In the end; one needs to accept how much US manufacturing affects the world and why it is impossible to go without US input.

Try building a single modern radar without a US designed or US produced digital signal processor.

ARMs, DSPs, FPGAs all come from US based manufacturers; the chinese havent been able to clone a single one of these which arent prone to failures.
@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Indeed. It's also rather exceptional for the US to (assuming it actually does in this case) to clamp down on third-party ITAR transfers between two countries whom it has already cleared ITAR products on a first-party basis!

 

[SQ8]

Indeed. It's also rather exceptional for the US to (assuming it actually does in this case) to clamp down on third-party ITAR transfers between two countries whom it has already cleared ITAR products on a first-party basis!

Actually it may not be. Export regulations require that licence be issued after the end user is confirmed. In this the end user is Pakistan and not Turkey so regardless of Turkey purchasing the engine, Pakistan is the designated end user and hence the licence for Turkey does not apply. TAI should have in principle gotten the approval for the sale PRIOR to quoting Pakistan.

 

[Quwa]

Actually it may not be. Export regulations require that licence be issued after the end user is confirmed. In this the end user is Pakistan and not Turkey so regardless of Turkey purchasing the engine, Pakistan is the designated end user and hence the licence for Turkey does not apply. TAI should have in principle gotten the approval for the sale PRIOR to quoting Pakistan.

That's true. I believe TAI even said a while back that it had gotten the clearance to transfer the engines to Pakistan. I think the issue at hand is between TAI and the US and on the issue of third-party export. So what if Pakistan just bought the engines directly from LHTEC and then used PAC (via a d-level MRO site) to fit the engines locally? We had already cleared the ITAR barrier for the GE T400 (AH-1Z), what difference would the CTS800 make?

 

[Super Falcon]

Actually nothing might still happen. The relationship between the military industrial complex of both countries is strong enough and their lobbies invested enough that they might end up prevailing over the current spat.
Profit wins over emotions in the US anytime, the Saudis are great examples of it. Even now negotiations are underway to purchase equipment from the US directly for our military and while the current administration (more importantly its US born NRI members) are in the way, all it takes is one executive whispering to Trump and it gets released(or just have Fox&Friends say it)


It’s not false, the design may have been bought from Italy but over 30-40% of the items in it ranging from big ticket ones like the engine to smaller electronic components are procured from abroad.

Our Babur is an “indigenous” design right? Except that Babur uses a US designed chip manufactured in their Chinese division for guidance, A camera from Europe I think and other little bits and pieces that land from all over the world.

Dont worry china will re enginer just send few old engines of the helo

 

[Aramagedon]

Anyone interested in our attack helicopters?

Shahed-216:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indi...copter-project-revealed-for-first-time.410383

Shahed-285:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HESA_Shahed_285

 

[royalharris]

That option is on hold till they modify Z-10 for our needs its still on the table we can still shift plus with Z-10 comes future possibility TOT
Already 70% of our arms needs are met from non western sources we are investing heavily in local production too

Find another option,maybe try iran

WZ10 have been inducted by PLA in large numbers

It is not a export platform

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Not worried

 

[Mrc]

Nothing is lost if we back off now and go for Chinese option...

Moving ahead with deal may spell trouble

 

[SQ8]

Dont worry china will re enginer just send few old engines of the helo

China hasn’t been able to reengineer engines properly yet with similar power capabilities.
Nothing that can be brushed away like that.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Turkey and US will get past this spat and return to normalized relations in a few months and exports will continue. They are not letting the largest NATO military out of the picture just for a pastor or two. They will both reach a deal.

 

[Sully3]

trump sahab di ........siri , we will decide where to buy the oil , we are not a mulk in search of bailout loan .

yet you are more in debt then us.

 

[BRAVO_]

lets not try to make a storm in the tea cup .... for the time being there are no sanctions and that is the truth of the day .. rest of things are just assumptions and a fruit for thought for keyboard warriors

 

[FuturePAF]

Pakistan would be better off doing what it did with the JF-17; getting a lower end model it can procure in large numbers, because $1.5 Billion for 30 basically Turkish built US/European Attack Helicopters is too much in our current financial situation. Therefore the WZ-19 would be a adequate platform.

If we need a larger, better armored helicopter, with higher altitude performance, then Pakistan would be better off learning from the T-129 and asking the Chinese to upgrade the WZ-10 in anyway it fell short. Also each Helicopter and its average support costs have to be under $50 million each. Finally, just like the Chinese defense industry's large size allows Pakistan to get RD-93 re-exported via China from Russia, a Chinese acquisition of foreign parts in build can protect Pakistan from similar situations as the Turkish attack helicopter sourcing are creating now.

https://www.bnamodelworld.com/bmz_cache/2/2705bd9c13d28e7367a0a7e93340ad58.image.500x332.jpg

 

[American Pakistani]

If Turkeye is ready to supply these copters, Pakistan should go for it. Turkeye is a brotherly country, Pakistan should stand with them at their time of difficulty.

It is unfortunate to see so many people criticizing and wish to dump the deal. Did these people forgot how Turkish brothers helped Pakistan in it's difficult times?