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Did Trump Scare Iran: Tehran Reportedly Pulls Missile From Launchpad Following Launch Prep

Look how bitterly ironic our world is...

No one has ever adhered to the humanitarian and International laws in a wartime as much as Iran has done.
Our troops and even civilians were being heavily bombed by WMDs provided to Saddam by western powers, and the so called international community was just watching, keeping their dirty mouths' shut! But Iran never done the same, even though we could!
Our cities, schools, hospitals and even soccer fields were being bombed by Iraqi fighter planes, while our pilots refused to bomb enemy bridge because of the civilian vehicles passing by, turning around putting themselves in danger of enemy AA defenses! Not to mention that time, before when we wanted to retaliate by firing missiles to Iraqi cities, we used to inform Iraqi citizens to get themselves to the safety!
Many of Iranian P.O.Ws have been brutally tortured and died in Iraqi prisons, while the Iraqi P.O.Ws have been treated like a guest in Iran!
And all these happened with the both Western and Eastern powers fully supporting the maniac Saddam! While Iran was in a full embargo!

And now Some one who is the only user of nuclear weapons and Has Killed More Than 20 Million People in 37 “Victim Nations” Since World War II acts as a savior angel and accuses others for human rights violations(!!!), supporting terrorism(!!!) and pursuing WMDs (!!!)
Yes, the only real thing Yanks can find to be proud of is something like the micro-wave oven! what a great favor for the world!!!

Who is the real naive here?!
 
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The fact that I have military experience that directly involved nuclear weapons means that I do think carefully when talking about the subject.

That doesn't change the fact that you didn't read my post properly. I said "one does not require the other", but you, only thinking of missiles do not need nukes, did not think that it also means nukes do not require missiles.

Whatever... You are too stubborn to accept a mistake. That is off topic anyway so there is no point arguing over it.

logic was so strong

You still have not adequately explained this "logic", unless...

Iran is working on an indigenous ballistic missile and nuclear weapons programs, and ruled by religious fanatics. Not hard to finger out the target is Tel Aviv.

... this is your "logic", in which case;

Iran is working on an indigenous ballistic missile

Which does not automatically mean those ballistic missiles are nuclear tipped. Iran has hundreds even thousands of ballistic missiles. If Iran is why does it have more missiles than even Russia or America? I'll tell you why, because they are all armed with conventional warheads of which a larger number are required to achieve militarily effective destruction. All ballistic missiles ever used have been conventionally armed.

Iran's ballistic missile program started because Iran was unable to respond to Iraqi Scud attacks with it's air force (due to lack of capability) or it's own foreign made missiles (due to lack of range). So Iran created the ballistic missile force to ensure it had an affordable long range strike capability, and eventually Iranian doctrine shifted to significantly include ballistic missiles partly because of it's animosity with Israel, but mostly because of it's deteriorated air force.

nuclear weapons programs

Sorry, but the CIA, Mossad and the IAEA all disagree with you - Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program.

and ruled by religious fanatics

Again, this is not a valid reason. Those same "religious fanatics" are the ones that denied the military leadership's proposal to develop WMDs, including nukes, at a time when Iran was in the middle of a gruelling war started by an aggressor who was supported by both superpowers, Europe, and the Arab world. An aggressor that routinely used chemical weapons and who had plans to develop nuclear weapons.

When the US endorsed the use of chemical weapons - David Morrison

“In its war with Iraq - when the United States, among others, was supporting Saddam Husayn in an eight-year war of aggression against the new Islamic Republic - Ayatollah Khomeini’s own military leaders came to him and said, ‘We inherited the ability to produce chemical weapons agent from the Shah. We need to do that and weaponize it so that we can respond in kind. We have tens of thousands of our people, soldiers and civilians, who are being killed in Iraqi chemical weapons attacks. We need to be able to respond in kind.’ And Imam Khomeini said, ‘No, because this would violate Islamic morality, because it is haram - it is forbidden by God - to do this, and the Islamic Republic of Iran will not do this.’”

When the Ayatollah Said No to Nukes | Foreign Policy

"In an exclusive interview, a top Iranian official says that Khomeini personally stopped him from building Iran's WMD program."

"Rafighdoost prepared a report on all the specialized groups he had formed and went to discuss it with Khomeini, hoping to get his approval for work on chemical and nuclear weapons. The supreme leader met him accompanied only by his son, Ahmad, who served as chief of staff, according to Rafighdoost. "When Khomeini read the report, he reacted to the chemical-biological-nuclear team by asking, ‘What is this?’" Rafighdoost recalled.

Khomeini ruled out development of chemical and biological weapons as inconsistent with Islam.

"Imam told me that, instead of producing chemical or biological weapons, we should produce defensive protection for our troops, like gas masks and atropine," Rafighdoost said.

Rafighdoost also told Khomeini that the group had "a plan to produce nuclear weapons." That could only have been a distant goal in 1984, given the rudimentary state of Iran’s nuclear program. At that point, Iranian nuclear specialists had no knowledge of how to enrich uranium and had no technology with which to do it. But in any case, Khomeini closed the door to such a program. "We don’t want to produce nuclear weapons," Rafighdoost recalls the supreme leader telling him.

Khomeini instructed him instead to "send these scientists to the Atomic Energy Organization," referring to Iran’s civilian nuclear-power agency. That edict from Khomeini ended the idea of seeking nuclear weapons, according to Rafighdoost.

The chemical-warfare issue took a new turn in late June 1987, when Iraqi aircraft bombed four residential areas of Sardasht, an ethnically Kurdish city in Iran, with what was believed to be mustard gas. It was the first time Iran’s civilian population had been targeted by Iraqi forces with chemical weapons, and the population was completely unprotected. Of 12,000 inhabitants, 8,000 were exposed, and hundreds died.

As popular fears of chemical attacks on more Iranian cities grew quickly, Rafighdoost undertook a major initiative to prepare Iran’s retaliation. He worked with the Defense Ministry to create the capability to produce mustard gas weapons.

Rafighdoost was obviously hoping that the new circumstances of Iraqi chemical weapons attacks on Iranian civilians would cause Khomeini to have a different view of the issue. He made it clear to me that Khomeini didn’t know about the production of the two chemicals for mustard gas weapons until it had taken place. "In the meeting, I told Imam we have high capability to produce chemical weapons," he recalled. Rafighdoost then asked Khomeini for his view on "this capability to retaliate."

Iran’s permanent representative to the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) disclosed the details of Rafighdoost’s chemical weapons program in a document provided to the U.S. delegation to the OPCW on May 17, 2004. It was later made public by WikiLeaks, which published a U.S. diplomatic cable reporting on its contents. The document shows that the two ministries had procured the chemical precursors for mustard gas and in September 1987 began to manufacture the chemicals necessary to produce a weapon — sulfur mustard and nitrogen mustard. But the document also indicated that the two ministries did not "weaponize" the chemicals by putting them into artillery shells, aerial bombs, or rockets.

The supreme leader was unmoved by the new danger presented by the Iraqi gas attacks on civilians. "It doesn’t matter whether it is on the battlefield or in cities; we are against this," he told Rafighdoost. "It is haram [forbidden] to produce such weapons. You are only allowed to produce protection."

Invoking the Islamic Republic’s claim to spiritual and moral superiority over the secular Iraqi regime, Rafighdoost recalls Khomeini asking rhetorically, "If we produce chemical weapons, what is the difference between me and Saddam?"

Khomeini’s verdict spelled the end of the IRGC’s chemical weapons initiative. "Even after Sardasht, there was no way we could retaliate," Rafighdoost recalled. The 2004 Iranian document confirms that production of two chemicals ceased, the buildings in which they were stored were sealed in 1988, and the production equipment was dismantled in 1992.

Khomeini also repeated his edict forbidding work on nuclear weapons, telling him, "Don’t talk about nuclear weapons at all."

Iran had the capability and legal (under the intl. laws at the time) justification to retaliate with WMDs and develop nukes. But it didn't. So much for those murderous religious fanatics.

 
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That doesn't change the fact that you didn't read my post properly. I said "one does not require the other", but you, only thinking of missiles do not need nukes, did not think that it also means nukes do not require missiles.

Whatever... You are too stubborn to accept a mistake. That is off topic anyway so there is no point arguing over it.
You are correct. For me, there is always a point where arguing a technical point becomes pointless someone already made up his mind.

Which does not automatically mean those ballistic missiles are nuclear tipped. Iran has hundreds even thousands of ballistic missiles. If Iran is why does it have more missiles than even Russia or America? I'll tell you why, because they are all armed with conventional warheads of which a larger number are required to achieve militarily effective destruction. All ballistic missiles ever used have been conventionally armed.
On the F-111, pilots and WSOs are interchangeable, meaning a pilot can be tasked to fly as a WSO in one mission, and a WSO can fly the jet if necessary.

So here is what I learned about nuclear weapons from the WSO's seat...

You cannot simply take a missile that was originally designed for a conventional warhead, install a nuclear warhead, and call it good, even if you managed to make the nuclear warhead the same dimensions and weight as the conventional version. Nuclear warheads do not detonate on physical impact but on altitude settings to maximize the blast radius. That means if there is a clandestine nuclear ballistic missile program, there must still be test launches with dummy warheads. These test launches can be disguised as periodic maintenance launches of current missile stockpiles and maintenance launches are legitimate under treaties.

Am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts, or pounds to chips, you did not know that.

You are free to propagate the argument that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program. Fortunately for the sane, they take seriously their duties to doubt.
 
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Am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts, or pounds to chips, you did not know that.

Did not know what? You mentioned several points in your post;

You cannot simply take a missile that was originally designed for a conventional warhead, install a nuclear warhead, and call it good

I know this. I have heard about "nuclear capable" aircraft and missiles. Nuclear weapons have complicated detonation methods that require specialised detonators, fuses, and nuclear safety protocols (for example, making the weapon "live" only at a certain time into the flight, numerous safety fuses).

Nuclear warheads do not detonate on physical impact but on altitude settings to maximize the blast radius.

I also know this.

That means if there is a clandestine nuclear ballistic missile program, there must still be test launches with dummy warheads. These test launches can be disguised as periodic maintenance launches of current missile stockpiles and maintenance launches are legitimate under treaties.

I did not immediately assume this, but it is only logical that this would be the case for countries wanting a nuclear missile capability. I am of the opinion that Iran is not after such capability and such have not gone through that thought process.

Iran does have an active ballistic missile program, which means we need to test missiles. I cannot prove that Iran is not developing a ballistic missile in the disguised fashion you described, because trying prove a negative is an inherently flawed action. In this case, it is because missiles apparently exploding before hitting the ground could easily be test failures or intentionally detonated prior to going over a sensitive area (e.g over major cities, other countries' airspace etc).

I maintain my earlier point (below) explaining why Iran's ballistic missile capability is conventional.

Which does not automatically mean those ballistic missiles are nuclear tipped. Iran has hundreds even thousands of ballistic missiles. If Iran is why does it have more missiles than even Russia or America? I'll tell you why, because they are all armed with conventional warheads of which a larger number are required to achieve militarily effective destruction. All ballistic missiles ever used have been conventionally armed.

Iran's ballistic missile program started because Iran was unable to respond to Iraqi Scud attacks with it's air force (due to lack of capability) or it's own foreign made missiles (due to lack of range). So Iran created the ballistic missile force to ensure it had an affordable long range strike capability, and eventually Iranian doctrine shifted to significantly include ballistic missiles partly because of it's animosity with Israel, but mostly because of it's deteriorated air force.
 
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No one is naive enough to believe that Iran's missile program is ONLY for conventional warheads. You can try that line on Iranian forums, but not here.
That is idiotic,one could make the exact same claim about literally any delivery system iran possesses ie "no one is naive enough to believe that irans airforce is only for conventional bombs" or "no one is naive enough to believe that irans artillery is only for conventional rounds"
Once again you`re making claims without the slightest ounce of proof,in addition theres also some big flaws in that line of thinking,if irans missile forces were intended for the carriage of nuclear weapons you would have seen the development of not only intermediate but intercontinental range missiles,because in order to have any credible deterrent you have to be able to target your enemies country and its infrastructure and especially its human population and that would mean specifically the targeting of western europe/nato nations and the us mainland and iran cannot do this with short and medium range missiles.
Now if you`re trying to say could irans missiles be used for the carriage of nuclear warheads then the answer is yes....but so could virtually any delivery system.
 
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Iran does have an active ballistic missile program, which means we need to test missiles. I cannot prove that Iran is not developing a ballistic missile in the disguised fashion you described, because trying prove a negative is an inherently flawed action.
I just thought it was hilarious that you would cite religious figureheads as even a smote of evidence that Iran is not pursuing to be a nuclear weapons state. Yes, I understand that they were talking to Iranians, and not infidels. But then again, they also said a lot of things people are not supposed to do and we ignore them at our convenience.

I did not asked you to prove any negative. YOU jumped to that conclusion. Just as you cannot prove a negative, you can also cannot disclose if Iran is indeed pursuing nuclear weapons state status. At least not at this time when it is convenient for Iran to maintain the facade of not pursuing that status.
 
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I just thought it was hilarious that you would cite religious figureheads as even a smote of evidence that Iran is not pursuing to be a nuclear weapons state.

Religious figureheads who were also the ones leading the country. At our most dire time of need against Iraq, they still denied WMDs.

you can also cannot disclose if Iran is indeed pursuing nuclear weapons state status.
No, but from Iran's actions in the past nearly 40 years, I can make an educated guess.
 
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Just as you cannot prove a negative, you can also cannot disclose if Iran is indeed pursuing nuclear weapons state status.

You claim to be well versed on military technology. You tell me, how long has the show about "Iran getting the bomb" been going on? Around 14 years formally and according to western agencies even years before it was discovered. So let's say 15 years to be safe, shall we?

Now how long did it take US to finish Manhattan project with 1940 technology? 2 years?

Now let's just assume that Iran really wanted the bomb and still does. Do you really think Iranians are that incompetent and stupid to spend 15 years on building a bomb and still couldn't?

Or let's say they have made the bomb and have hidden it somewhere for the big day to come. What kind of rational human would be in Iran's shoes, being threatened and sanctioned as if they had built the bomb and still not show it? One experimental explosion in Iran's central deserts would actually make things better for Iran:

- Sanctions would remain sanctions. I cannot imaging anything worse than what was imposed. So no change there.
- The risk of "Preemptive" strikes by Israel and US would be gone. North Korea is a great example. They just tested a missile this week and all Trump did was nothing because he knows he cannot do anything about it and yet he keeps putting Iran on notice or threat Iran whenever there is a ballistic test.
- Eventually, everybody would forget about the nuclear test and things would get back to normal. The same way it did for India and Pakistan.

All of the above hints to one thing only: Iran really doesn't want the bomb if it did, all of us would know for sure by now.
 
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Eventually, everybody would forget about the nuclear test and things would get back to normal. The same way it did for India and Pakistan.
I disagree... Iran is "public enemy no.1" but India and Pakistan are largely embroiled in their own issues. They are not enemies of America, their weapons are not directed at America or Israel.

Iran is the opposite and the Americans wouldn't get off our back, just like they haven't with North Korea.
 
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I disagree... Iran is "public enemy no.1" but India and Pakistan are largely embroiled in their own issues. They are not enemies of America, their weapons are not directed at America or Israel.

Iran is the opposite and the Americans wouldn't get off our back, just like they haven't with North Korea.
Well it is a matter of outlasting the other side in worst case which Iran is very good at.
 
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Well it is a matter of outlasting the other side in worst case which Iran is very good at.

Which begs the question. If the US were to go down, will it take it's enemies with it?

I say yes since the world that is left will not be kind to Whats left of the US. I always hated the zero sum kind of thinking. If I can't have it then no one can sort of mindset that will lead to eventual conflict that always spirals out of control. I just don't think enough Americans get the point that it is US not other countries that are a bigger part of the problem.

Well I guess we have to wait and see if the United States has the balls to attack a country that can fight back.
 
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I am sorry if I appear to be intruding but I can't help put put forth some thoughts here that you gents;, might find pertinent. If Iran tested a nuclear device tommorow all hell would lose out on Western media but the week after perfect bliss would appear over the Iranian horizon similar to how a jet once it breaks the sound barrier it goes into stable air.

The reason is the only way to deal with bullies is talk in the language they speak - force. The nukes give a country option of projecting massive destruction. That ability to give doses of death and destruction is sobering. You have North Korea as a example.

A nuclear Iran would force USA and Israel to think serious. Discuss serious. And come to serious understanding as a nuclear spectre would focus minds. The funny thing is US has already used ever stick it can other than a direct military attack. Therefore I can't see it imposing any additional sanctions - the military threat would be neutered. Trump would be briefed on the realities and would have to fact the reality that there would be not much the American's could do.

However for life of me I can't understand Iranian policy. It appears to be muddled and foggy. If your being accused of making the darned things, being threatened because of the darn things then you might as well make the darn things.

And be done with it !
 
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I am sorry if I appear to be intruding but I can't help put put forth some thoughts here that you gents;, might find pertinent. If Iran tested a nuclear device tommorow all hell would lose out on Western media but the week after perfect bliss would appear over the Iranian horizon similar to how a jet once it breaks the sound barrier it goes into stable air.

The reason is the only way to deal with bullies is talk in the language they speak - force. The nukes give a country option of projecting massive destruction. That ability to give doses of death and destruction is sobering. You have North Korea as a example.

A nuclear Iran would force USA and Israel to think serious. Discuss serious. And come to serious understanding as a nuclear spectre would focus minds. The funny thing is US has already used ever stick it can other than a direct military attack. Therefore I can't see it imposing any additional sanctions - the military threat would be neutered. Trump would be briefed on the realities and would have to fact the reality that there would be not much the American's could do.

However for life of me I can't understand Iranian policy. It appears to be muddled and foggy. If your being accused of making the darned things, being threatened because of the darn things then you might as well make the darn things.

And be done with it !

Iran uses ambiguity to it's advantage as do many other countries. Better to keep your enemies guessing what you're capable of rather than touting it day in day out.

Who knows maybe Iran truly has something that renders nukes useless. I've been hedging my bets that Iran does indeed have over a thousand ballistic missiles ready to go, and maybe thousands of long range cruise missiles ready to go as well (no matter how many defenses you have thats a lot of incoming missiles). Given their mountainous terrain and numerous underground facilities the Iranians have then we are talking about a formidable enemy.
 
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I am sorry if I appear to be intruding but I can't help put put forth some thoughts here that you gents;, might find pertinent. If Iran tested a nuclear device tommorow all hell would lose out on Western media but the week after perfect bliss would appear over the Iranian horizon similar to how a jet once it breaks the sound barrier it goes into stable air.

The reason is the only way to deal with bullies is talk in the language they speak - force. The nukes give a country option of projecting massive destruction. That ability to give doses of death and destruction is sobering. You have North Korea as a example.

A nuclear Iran would force USA and Israel to think serious. Discuss serious. And come to serious understanding as a nuclear spectre would focus minds. The funny thing is US has already used ever stick it can other than a direct military attack. Therefore I can't see it imposing any additional sanctions - the military threat would be neutered. Trump would be briefed on the realities and would have to fact the reality that there would be not much the American's could do.

However for life of me I can't understand Iranian policy. It appears to be muddled and foggy. If your being accused of making the darned things, being threatened because of the darn things then you might as well make the darn things.

And be done with it !

You mean if you're being accused of murder, being threatened and bullied because of the baseless accusation of murdering then you might as well murder people? wouldn't it prove those who accused you wrongly?
I agree that Iran actually has payed the cost of acquiring nukes but people whom have values don't alter their direction by every wind. we wanna see a world free of nuclear weapons and also all types of WMD.
As @Arminkh & @AmirPatriot explained it well , we are not after nukes due to our beliefs and we don't change it just 'cause of western propaganda and lies , we didn't go after WMD even during Iran-Iraq war while our cities ,people and troops were showered by ballistic missile carrying chemical warheads provided by the same people who now accuse us not to mention that the main player behind disarming Syrian Gov. chemical weapons was Iran.
 
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You mean if you're being accused of murder, being threatened and bullied because of the baseless accusation of murdering then you might as well murder people? wouldn't it prove those who accused you wrongly?
Incorrect, false analogy my friend. Nuclear weapon is a 'potential'. A fist, a foot, a piece of rope, a piece of wood, a knife, a rifle, a hammer, a stone, poison, a gun, a grenade are lower orders on the same spectrum as the nuclear weapon. They are all 'potentials' and if used in certain manner can kill. A murder is result of a thought process that uses those 'potentials' some which I listed. It is the result of and not the device.

Therefore a more appropriate comparison would be if you are unarmed and run into two hooligans who start shouting at you that you have gun on your person. They then start threatening you all the while they are armed to the teeth with guns. You then jump and grab a gun off one of the punks leg strap. You then point the gun on them and tell them "Okay now I have a gun also".

"Back off motha f ....

*Of course you still don't use it. Just that you now also have the option or the "potential" which alone will sober others up. It is called proactive defence. When othes know you can hurt them sufficiently they will leave you alone.

due to our beliefs
Oh for gawds sakes. All of you religious types Shia/Sunni or whatever sound the same.

 
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