Did Nehru get Gandhi killed?

[Politico]

John Lennon??

Vladimir LLinich Ulanov (Lenin) was a very different man from John Winston Ono Lennon. The former was angry revolutionary responsible for the deaths of thousands whilst the latter was a pacifist revolutionary who composed and sang songs of peace, love and harmony during the flower revolution. Both died famous. The deadly revolutionary died of intracerebral hemorrhage (quite a peaceful death) whilst the pacifist died of a gunshot wound inflicted by an assassin. Ironic

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@Joe Shearer

Dada,

When they are thrown out, it will be tougher to erase the damage that they are doing,

And even if they are thrown out in 2019 (nauzubillah) they will back again- in 5 years or 10 depending upon circumstances- there is no way of getting away from they.

I believe that these segments are themselves in a minority when we consider the minorities as defined (Muslim, Christian, Sikh, primarily) and in combination with the Dalit or the tribal.

The Dalit, the tribal and the Sikh may well bandwagon with the "majority" than with the "minority". Or of course, they may not. Depending again on the way things go. Thats why RSS has been working on the tribals from decades and now with Dalits as well.

Regards

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer

Dada,

When they are thrown out, it will be tougher to erase the damage that they are doing,

And even if they are thrown out in 2019 (nauzubillah) they will back again- in 5 years or 10 depending upon circumstances- there is no way of getting away from they.

I believe that these segments are themselves in a minority when we consider the minorities as defined (Muslim, Christian, Sikh, primarily) and in combination with the Dalit or the tribal.

The Dalit, the tribal and the Sikh may well bandwagon with the "majority" than with the "minority". Or of course, they may not. Depending again on the way things go. Thats why RSS has been working on the tribals from decades and now with Dalits as well.

Regards

And Happy Diwali to you too.

Just for that, I shall egg on Dan to join PDF.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

Dada,

To you too. Dan bhai must join here.

Regards

 

[Joe Shearer]

Vladimir LLinich Ulanov (Lenin) was a very different man from John Winston Ono Lennon. The former was angry revolutionary responsible for the deaths of thousands whilst the latter was a pacifist revolutionary who composed and sang songs of peace, love and harmony during the flower revolution. Both died famous. The deadly revolutionary died of intracerebral hemorrhage (quite a peaceful death) whilst the pacifist died of a gunshot wound inflicted by an assassin. Ironic

Ilyich, son of Ilya; just saying.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

So true, so very true.

In no particular order, Putin, Erdogan, Modi, Duterte, Trump....I've said this before on PDF, saying it again: are we being sent a message?

Herr Professor,

Indeed, a keen observation. Care to elaborate the root-causes...perhaps designers of such enterprises? Accidental or intentional matters not..as the net result remains the same.

In all your subtle and not so subtle observations...one senses a growing sadness of loosing something dear.

Your people can still change course...will be pushing the rock up the hill...but your history shows that you lot are hardy and ready for scrafices...

One only fears that your good India is becoming an experitmental ground...just once it was for pharma...now for finance. Please, don't blame it all on evil West when your leaders are up to their neck in it.

Kindly, share thoughts...perhaps accessible for mere mortals, not possessing your intellectual quality.

Remain in good health...

Regards,

Mangus

 

[Joe Shearer]

Herr Professor,

Indeed, a keen observation. Care to elaborate the root-causes...perhaps designers of such enterprises? Accidental or intentional matters not..as the net result remains the same.

In all your subtle and not so subtle observations...one senses a growing sadness of loosing something dear.

Your people can still change course...will be pushing the rock up the hill...but your history shows that you lot are hardy and ready for scrafices...

One only fears that your good India is becoming an experitmental ground...just once it was for pharma...now for finance. Please, don't blame it all on evil West when your leaders are up to their neck in it.

Kindly, share thoughts...perhaps accessible for mere mortals, not possessing your intellectual quality.

Remain in good health...

Regards,

Mangus

Thank you for your kind words, which I really don't deserve; wish I did, but not yet, not until I get rid of my bad habit of losing my temper and lashing out at people who seem to be arguing foolishly. Actually, they are not and it is just my impatience and unwillingness to listen carefully and politely. Many of these are very young people and may need that bit of encouragement that I am supposed to gift them professionally, not just as crutches, but as hints in the right direction. I regret it so much, until the next time, when once again, I find after an exchange that I have been cutting, scathing, sarcastic, abrasive, almost vindictive in pursuing to his doom some hapless kid. Some of them are half my age; it is truly agonising when I come to my senses and find blood on my hands.

About what you referred to, the general direction that the world is taking. it might help you that I belong, culturally, to the generation of 68. If you recall, for those of us born after the war, the 'baby boomers', 1968 was the 'annus mirabilis', when all the walls were falling (we had to wait another 21 for the actual Wall to fall, but who was to know, then?), and it could be said with some truth,

Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive
But to be young were very heaven

People forget the rest of it, though; they forget how it was important, crucial, indeed, to get to grips with our social shackles

Oh! times,
In which the meagre, stale, forbidding ways
Of custom, law, and statute, took at once
The attraction of a country in romance!
When Reason seemed the most to assert her rights,
When most intent on making of herself
A prime Enchantress--to assist the work,
Which then was going forward in her name!
Not favoured spots alone, but the whole earth,
The beauty wore of promise, that which sets
(As at some moment might not be unfelt
Among the bowers of paradise itself)
The budding rose above the rose full blown.

Those were the days of Tariq Ali, of Daniel Cohn-Bendit, of Andre Malraux, of Sartre, of Allan Ginsberg, all males, mind you, but seemingly, we were on the verge of a new turn in history, away from dowdy, staid liberalism, in sensible clothes and sensible shoes, but with a sense of being strangled by social convention. We fought to keep McNamara out of Calcutta; we fought to kick out the filthy, corrupt Congress, we denied what was going on after Nehru died in 1964, we denied Nehru, and we didn't want any old bozo to come and tell us about non-violence. Unfortunately, we were suckered; the extreme left came in, and before we could march and rally and print pamphlets and write our anguished little poems, they had taken over and were killing people.

So I learnt - 68 was the year I entered college, we have our fiftieth anniversary re-union next year in January, when the NRI ones come home on their annual pilgrimage - that the Congress was corrupt, that the Naxals were kill-crazy lumpenproletariat led by juvenile delinquents, and that the conventional left cowered in their houses and took no stand. About the others, that there would be people who hated others because of their religion was unthinkable and unthought; but there was Ashok Lahiri, later Economic Advisor to the GoI, and director of the Asian Development Bank, asking in his distorted quack why we had M. J. Akbar with us in what was formerly the Hindu College. His statement was the equivalent of a male dropping his pants in front of the women. Our private relationships existed, but in public, we remained pretty middle class and prudish.

Since then, through fifty years, it becomes clear that we were not unique and a glorious exception; we were merely another deep wave in human history, a wave that is about to give way to another deep wave opposite in nature. From the days of Woodrow Wilson, without interruption, and even while carrying with it the baggage of racism so fully developed by the Europeans, there was a coming together of the choppy waters and mixed directions that rocked Europe and the US for a 138 years, from 1776 to 1914, including, in a number of maelstroms, the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution...and countless smaller movements supporting the deep wave as it developed.

It seems now in hindsight that we were borne up by this deep wave through the intervening century, and that as it ebbs, and gives way to another and opposite deep wave in human thought and inclination, we need to remember with humility that there were good times, even as we face the bad times. Your country and your culture, for instance, was - is - one of the most aggressive manifestations of the spirit of that liberal wave. The way you run yourself, the role of women and their partial but fairly substantial liberation, the recognition of men that they had a lot to do with social evils, the tolerance of the other that is still a feature of your society in spite of the challenges that it faces - there is probably nothing as coherent as the Dutch cultural and social contract other than perhaps the Scandinavians - the whole blessed lot! - and, to a lesser extent, the Anglo-Americans, including the former British Colonies turned Dominions. It looked, for some time, next to the Spanish and the Italians and the Greeks, that India would turn out to be a sepia-tinted version of these liberal democracies.

But what we thought was irreversible was all too reversible. Now, step at a time, the weaker liberal nations, and some who had never been liberal, broke down and introduced the leadership of the monosyllabic. First that imperial power, Russia, thinly disguised by apparent adherence to an extremist branch of European culture but morally a mere revival of the country's imperial regime; Turkey, where the followers of Atatuerk had not kept their eyes on the ball, and had allowed the slow accretion of religiosity; India, where we were ripe for counter-revolution; the Philippines, always liberal, but scarred through and through by the drug traffic that was allowed by previous regimes and finally, the US itself. All adherents to a rule by firm men, regardless of the vitality of constitutional rule, all convinced that they, individually, were examples to humanity, and were far above the thrust and jostle of day-to-day disputes of governance.

Here we are then, watching as all around us, the liberal wave recedes, and there comes in its place the counter-wave, now leaking in, trickling in, building smelly little rivulets slowly gathering in strength and in speed. As you go through threads on PDF, the presence of the New Indian, what a famous journalist called the Internet Hindu, this counter movement will become painfully visible. As they win one bastion after another, today we are left with the Indian court system and the Indian Army, and these two are being weakened every single day. The fools who are doing this don't realise what harm they are doing, and how vulnerable they will make the nation; they are just out to vent their prejudices and superstitions and their hatred of those who are not their own.

I believe that we are in for a counter-cultural wave that may last another seventy to a hundred years. Thankfully, I will not live to see the worst. But, as Francis Bacon put it, 'children are our hostages to fortune'. If I had been a childless man, I would have felt a vague melancholy, perhaps nothing more; as it is, I am filled with fears.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Thank you for your kind words, which I really don't deserve; wish I did, but not yet, not until I get rid of my bad habit of losing my temper and lashing out at people who seem to be arguing foolishly. Actually, they are not and it is just my impatience and unwillingness to listen carefully and politely. Many of these are very young people and may need that bit of encouragement that I am supposed to gift them professionally, not just as crutches, but as hints in the right direction. I regret it so much, until the next time, when once again, I find after an exchange that I have been cutting, scathing, sarcastic, abrasive, almost vindictive in pursuing to his doom some hapless kid. Some of them are half my age; it is truly agonising when I come to my senses and find blood on my hands.

About what you referred to, the general direction that the world is taking. it might help you that I belong, culturally, to the generation of 68. If you recall, for those of us born after the war, the 'baby boomers', 1968 was the 'annus mirabilis', when all the walls were falling (we had to wait another 21 for the actual Wall to fall, but who was to know, then?), and it could be said with some truth,

Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive
But to be young were very heaven

People forget the rest of it, though; they forget how it was important, crucial, indeed, to get to grips with our social shackles

Oh! times,
In which the meagre, stale, forbidding ways
Of custom, law, and statute, took at once
The attraction of a country in romance!
When Reason seemed the most to assert her rights,
When most intent on making of herself
A prime Enchantress--to assist the work,
Which then was going forward in her name!
Not favoured spots alone, but the whole earth,
The beauty wore of promise, that which sets
(As at some moment might not be unfelt
Among the bowers of paradise itself)
The budding rose above the rose full blown.

Those were the days of Tariq Ali, of Daniel Cohn-Bendit, of Andre Malraux, of Sartre, of Allan Ginsberg, all males, mind you, but seemingly, we were on the verge of a new turn in history, away from dowdy, staid liberalism, in sensible clothes and sensible shoes, but with a sense of being strangled by social convention. We fought to keep McNamara out of Calcutta; we fought to kick out the filthy, corrupt Congress, we denied what was going on after Nehru died in 1964, we denied Nehru, and we didn't want any old bozo to come and tell us about non-violence. Unfortunately, we were suckered; the extreme left came in, and before we could march and rally and print pamphlets and write our anguished little poems, they had taken over and were killing people.

So I learnt - 68 was the year I entered college, we have our fiftieth anniversary re-union next year in January, when the NRI ones come home on their annual pilgrimage - that the Congress was corrupt, that the Naxals were kill-crazy lumpenproletariat led by juvenile delinquents, and that the conventional left cowered in their houses and took no stand. About the others, that there would be people who hated others because of their religion was unthinkable and unthought; but there was Ashok Lahiri, later Economic Advisor to the GoI, and director of the Asian Development Bank, asking in his distorted quack why we had M. J. Akbar with us in what was formerly the Hindu College. His statement was the equivalent of a male dropping his pants in front of the women. Our private relationships existed, but in public, we remained pretty middle class and prudish.

Since then, through fifty years, it becomes clear that we were not unique and a glorious exception; we were merely another deep wave in human history, a wave that is about to give way to another deep wave opposite in nature. From the days of Woodrow Wilson, without interruption, and even while carrying with it the baggage of racism so fully developed by the Europeans, there was a coming together of the choppy waters and mixed directions that rocked Europe and the US for a 138 years, from 1776 to 1914, including, in a number of maelstroms, the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution...and countless smaller movements supporting the deep wave as it developed.

It seems now in hindsight that we were borne up by this deep wave through the intervening century, and that as it ebbs, and gives way to another and opposite deep wave in human thought and inclination, we need to remember with humility that there were good times, even as we face the bad times. Your country and your culture, for instance, was - is - one of the most aggressive manifestations of the spirit of that liberal wave. The way you run yourself, the role of women and their partial but fairly substantial liberation, the recognition of men that they had a lot to do with social evils, the tolerance of the other that is still a feature of your society in spite of the challenges that it faces - there is probably nothing as coherent as the Dutch cultural and social contract other than perhaps the Scandinavians - the whole blessed lot! - and, to a lesser extent, the Anglo-Americans, including the former British Colonies turned Dominions. It looked, for some time, next to the Spanish and the Italians and the Greeks, that India would turn out to be a sepia-tinted version of these liberal democracies.

But what we thought was irreversible was all too reversible. Now, step at a time, the weaker liberal nations, and some who had never been liberal, broke down and introduced the leadership of the monosyllabic. First that imperial power, Russia, thinly disguised by apparent adherence to an extremist branch of European culture but morally a mere revival of the country's imperial regime; Turkey, where the followers of Atatuerk had not kept their eyes on the ball, and had allowed the slow accretion of religiosity; India, where we were ripe for counter-revolution; the Philippines, always liberal, but scarred through and through by the drug traffic that was allowed by previous regimes and finally, the US itself. All adherents to a rule by firm men, regardless of the vitality of constitutional rule, all convinced that they, individually, were examples to humanity, and were far above the thrust and jostle of day-to-day disputes of governance.

Here we are then, watching as all around us, the liberal wave recedes, and there comes in its place the counter-wave, now leaking in, trickling in, building smelly little rivulets slowly gathering in strength and in speed. As you go through threads on PDF, the presence of the New Indian, what a famous journalist called the Internet Hindu, this counter movement will become painfully visible. As they win one bastion after another, today we are left with the Indian court system and the Indian Army, and these two are being weakened every single day. The fools who are doing this don't realise what harm they are doing, and how vulnerable they will make the nation; they are just out to vent their prejudices and superstitions and their hatred of those who are not their own.

I believe that we are in for a counter-cultural wave that may last another seventy to a hundred years. Thankfully, I will not live to see the worst. But, as Francis Bacon put it, 'children are our hostages to fortune'. If I had been a childless man, I would have felt a vague melancholy, perhaps nothing more; as it is, I am filled with fears.

Kind Sir,

Allow me to extend my gratitude for the time and effort you took to compose your thoughts, feelings... yes... deep feelings. I feel honoured!

Difficult to put the finger on it... perhaps it is a reaction to the unreal, real world that we have created for ourselves.
Just in about last thirty years more technology has entered our lives than ever before in history.
I see here in the developed world the same.. despite our liberalism and democracy and all...something deeply amiss. And it is not that materialism/no spirituality nonsense. All humans everwhere are equally materialistic. Human condition is the same... only difference is better infra/rule of law etc.

No, I do percieve...yet can't yet create a cohesive picture of what is underlying, subliminal drive...but you are correct that reactionary elements are on the rise....it does pander to the base instincts of humanity. Be it religious based horrors in ME or be it neo-fascism.... same sickness really.

Being an outsider, I can only be an observer and a student of your good country. Given the mass, scale and criticality of your land..what happens there has implications.

Sincerely, hope that some of you could turn the tide in good Gandhian fashion...

Temper...hides passion...sometimes angst...not always bad thing is it?

Who else would you be, Herr Professor, if you didn't have your famous temper...with short fuse?

Please, do take good care... PDF world needs you and your kind friends!

Regards,

Mangus

 

[Soumitra]

Herr Professor,

Indeed, a keen observation. Care to elaborate the root-causes...perhaps designers of such enterprises? Accidental or intentional matters not..as the net result remains the same.

In all your subtle and not so subtle observations...one senses a growing sadness of loosing something dear.

Your people can still change course...will be pushing the rock up the hill...but your history shows that you lot are hardy and ready for scrafices...

One only fears that your good India is becoming an experitmental ground...just once it was for pharma...now for finance. Please, don't blame it all on evil West when your leaders are up to their neck in it.

Kindly, share thoughts...perhaps accessible for mere mortals, not possessing your intellectual quality.

Remain in good health...

Regards,

Mangus

The reason for the rise of the right is that there has been a repressed Hindu Anger.

For years Hindus were forced to feel ashamed of our culture and practices. We were looked down as week. the politicians pandered to the minorities for vote bank politics.

I will give you some examples

Ayodhya, Varanasi and Mathura are 3 of the holiest sites of Hinduism Equivalent to Vatican and Jeruselum for Christians or Mecca and Medina for Muslims. In each of these sites there were grand temples which were destroyed by Mughals and Mosques built in there places. It is 70 years after Independence and in a Hindu Majority country (80% Hindu Population) no temples have been restored on these sites. In 1992 the Babri Masjid at Ayodhaya was destroyed by angry Hindus but the temple was not built. The case is still dragging through the courts. (The Supreme Court is stated to hear the final petition starting from 5th Dec this year). Only the BJP has promised to build the Ram Temple. All other so called "secular" political parties are denigrating Hindus saying why do you want a temple there?
BTW the leftists are so worried about the proposed judgement in the SC case on Ayodhaya that they are writing op-eds asking the verdict to be delayed to after 2019 when Lok Sabha elections will be over. https://scroll.in/article/853507/wh...-ayodhya-dispute-before-2019-general-election
they want to deny justice to the hindus just to prevent BJP coming to power again

India is constitutionally a Secular country, but in this Secular nation different religions have their own laws. Till just a few weeks ago a Muslim man could legally divorce his wife just by saying the word Talaq (Divorce) 3 times. It is the BJP which is pushing for a Uniform Civil Code (UCC) which means same laws for all irrespective of religion. Irony is that UCC is basis of secularism and the secular parties are opposing it tooth and nail while a so called communal party is working towards it

Jammu Kashmir is the only Muslim Majority state in India. It has got a special status under article 370 of the constitution. All Indians have right to move and settle anywhere in the country except in Jammu Kashmir where they cant settle. A law passed by the parliament is automatically applied to all states of the country except Jammu Kashmir which has to again pass the law in its assembly before it can be applied there. BJP is the only party which is working to remove this Article 370 from the constitution.

I talked about Ayodhaya and Varanasi being very important to Hindus. For the first time a PM took part in Ganga Arti in Varanasi when Modi became the PM. He was not the first Hindu PM. All PMs before him except Dr. Manmohan Singh were Hindus. But Hindus have been pressured to repress their culture and identities. Ganga Arti is a beautiful part of the Hindu Culture but no PM ever did this.

Today is the festival of Diwali. It marks the return of Lord Ram from exile back to Ayodhaya. For the first time in years there was a grand celebration of Diwali at Ayodhaya. It was possible only because BJP govt under Yogi Adityanath is in power who is not ashamed to celebrate Hindu culture and heritage. Again it is not that CMs before Yogi Adityanath were not Hindus. They were Hindus but worked overtime to suppress the Hindus and pander to the minorities.

Hundreds of Hindu activists have been killed by leftists across India. but you dont see any protests and candle light marches for them by the "Secular Liberal" crowd and instead these murders are being marginalised saying that these are just political rivalries. On the other hand you see thousands of tweets, op eds in newspapers, television news debates if a single muslim is killed. I am not saying killing Muslims is alright but why give dispropotionate focus on Muslim deaths and suppress the Hindu deaths. Arent Hindu deaths as tragic?

Now for the first time there is a BJP govt with majority on its own and they are listening to the grievances of the Hindus. This is what the "liberals" like @Joe Shearer dont like because it affects the worldview they held for 60-70 years

 

[pothead]

Ayodhya, Varanasi and Mathura are 3 of the holiest sites of Hinduism Equivalent to Vatican and Jeruselum for Christians or Mecca and Medina for Muslims.

If we were to reverse the situation, do you think the other side would wait for court order to build their holy site back?

These seculars really don't understand buddy.
That's the problem. They think our history begins with Akbar "the great"

 

[Soumitra]

If we were to reverse the situation, do you think the other side would wait for court order to build their holy site back?

These seculars really don't understand buddy.
That's the problem. They think our history begins with Akbar "the great"

Did you read the scroll link i have given?

 

[pothead]

Did you read the scroll link i have given?

I stopped visiting scroll altogether but made exception this time.
The desperation of seculars...

 

[Soumitra]

I stopped visiting scroll altogether but made exception this time.
The desperation of seculars...

I read it see how vile and desperate the sickulars are. The more I read it the more my blood boils and more I am pushed towards BJP.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

The reason for the rise of the right is that there has been a repressed Hindu Anger.

For years Hindus were forced to feel ashamed of our culture and practices. We were looked down as week. the politicians pandered to the minorities for vote bank politics.

I will give you some examples

Ayodhya, Varanasi and Mathura are 3 of the holiest sites of Hinduism Equivalent to Vatican and Jeruselum for Christians or Mecca and Medina for Muslims. In each of these sites there were grand temples which were destroyed by Mughals and Mosques built in there places. It is 70 years after Independence and in a Hindu Majority country (80% Hindu Population) no temples have been restored on these sites. In 1992 the Babri Masjid at Ayodhaya was destroyed by angry Hindus but the temple was not built. The case is still dragging through the courts. (The Supreme Court is stated to hear the final petition starting from 5th Dec this year). Only the BJP has promised to build the Ram Temple. All other so called "secular" political parties are denigrating Hindus saying why do you want a temple there?
BTW the leftists are so worried about the proposed judgement in the SC case on Ayodhaya that they are writing op-eds asking the verdict to be delayed to after 2019 when Lok Sabha elections will be over. https://scroll.in/article/853507/wh...-ayodhya-dispute-before-2019-general-election
they want to deny justice to the hindus just to prevent BJP coming to power again

India is constitutionally a Secular country, but in this Secular nation different religions have their own laws. Till just a few weeks ago a Muslim man could legally divorce his wife just by saying the word Talaq (Divorce) 3 times. It is the BJP which is pushing for a Uniform Civil Code (UCC) which means same laws for all irrespective of religion. Irony is that UCC is basis of secularism and the secular parties are opposing it tooth and nail while a so called communal party is working towards it

Jammu Kashmir is the only Muslim Majority state in India. It has got a special status under article 370 of the constitution. All Indians have right to move and settle anywhere in the country except in Jammu Kashmir where they cant settle. A law passed by the parliament is automatically applied to all states of the country except Jammu Kashmir which has to again pass the law in its assembly before it can be applied there. BJP is the only party which is working to remove this Article 370 from the constitution.

I talked about Ayodhaya and Varanasi being very important to Hindus. For the first time a PM took part in Ganga Arti in Varanasi when Modi became the PM. He was not the first Hindu PM. All PMs before him except Dr. Manmohan Singh were Hindus. But Hindus have been pressured to repress their culture and identities. Ganga Arti is a beautiful part of the Hindu Culture but no PM ever did this.

Today is the festival of Diwali. It marks the return of Lord Ram from exile back to Ayodhaya. For the first time in years there was a grand celebration of Diwali at Ayodhaya. It was possible only because BJP govt under Yogi Adityanath is in power who is not ashamed to celebrate Hindu culture and heritage. Again it is not that CMs before Yogi Adityanath were not Hindus. They were Hindus but worked overtime to suppress the Hindus and pander to the minorities.

Hundreds of Hindu activists have been killed by leftists across India. but you dont see any protests and candle light marches for them by the "Secular Liberal" crowd and instead these murders are being marginalised saying that these are just political rivalries. On the other hand you see thousands of tweets, op eds in newspapers, television news debates if a single muslim is killed. I am not saying killing Muslims is alright but why give dispropotionate focus on Muslim deaths and suppress the Hindu deaths. Arent Hindu deaths as tragic?

Now for the first time there is a BJP govt with majority on its own and they are listening to the grievances of the Hindus. This is what the "liberals" like @Joe Shearer dont like because it affects the worldview they held for 60-70 years

Dear Indian friend,

Firstly, thank you for putting forward your end of the story. Helps one to form a studied opinion.

For your kind information I don't have any ill will towards India, Indians or Hindus. All I know about Hinduism is Kama Sutra and Tantra (which some believe to be a cult of female worship. Shakti). More than that I don't have any insight to your good religion.

Having said that for myself and myself alone... religion is an individual relationship of a person and what that person deems sacred. Purpose of life, in my view is inner growth to become one with the Divine...whatever that maybe.

I sense that you are saying that the majority feels oppressed and insolated by a minority. And now this majority wants to have full expression of their being, their sense of right/just.

I do hope whatever your countrymen choose...that it be a path of harmony and advancement of Human Condition for all of your fellow countrymen, regardless of their ethos or ethinicity. Beyond this anything I might say would be imposing my ideas on your good country...for which I don't have any right as I am not an Indian.

However, I would like to make it clear that when it comes to certain policies, I do reserve some privilige to express my views which might be opposing to yours. Well, this is the entire point of being on PDF. Isn't it?

Allow me to wish you a great day.

Regards,

Mangus.

PS. What is Hinduism?

 

[Soumitra]

Dear Indian friend,

Firstly, thank you for putting forward your end of the story. Helps one to form a studied opinion.

For your kind information I don't have any ill will towards India, Indians or Hindus. All I know about Hinduism is Kama Sutra and Tantra (which some believe to be a cult of female worship. Shakti). More than that I don't have any insight to your good religion.

Having said that for myself and myself alone... religion is an individual relationship of a person and what that person deems sacred. Purpose of life, in my view is inner growth to become one with the Divine...whatever that maybe.

I sense that you are saying that the majority feels oppressed and insolated by a minority. And now this majority wants to have full expression of their being, their sense of right/just.

I do hope whatever your countrymen choose...that it be a path of harmony and advancement of Human Condition for all of your fellow countrymen, regardless of their ethos or ethinicity. Beyond this anything I might say would be imposing my ideas on your good country...for which I don't have any right as I am not an Indian.

Thank you for putting on your views

However, I would like to make it clear that when it comes to certain policies, I do reserve some privilige to express my views which might be opposing to yours. Well, this is the entire point of being on PDF. Isn't it?

Sure I dont mind an opposing view. What I dont like is a hypocrisy where the opposing view is being put down by saying that it is of no value and at the same time claiming yourself to be a champion of Freedom of Speech.

Your "friend" @Joe Shearer is a perfect example of this. He is quick to give a negative rating to any post which is opposed to his even if it is not abusive. What a negative rating does is that it suppreses the freedom of expression of the poster because his post is now not visible to anyone on the forum. Also if you get too many negatives you can get banned which is again suppressing the FoE of a person. It is one thing to give a negative rating if the post is abusive but to give a negative rating just because the post opposes your view point is nothing but misuse of power

He also puts RW members on his ignore list. that is his perogative but what I feel happens here is that since he does not see any opposing view he feels that he is the only correct person. As a result when he sees a post from a new member challenging him he becomes unstable and gives him a negative

For example he has put me on Ignore so he wont see the counter view to what he has said and thus will think that he is right because no one opposes him

He is actually a very egoistic person with an elitist mindset. I am very old and experienced, the Pakistanis love me so that means I am right

Allow me to wish you a great day.

Regards,

Mangus.

I also wish you a great day. Today is one of the most important festivals of Hindus - Diwali. Even though you dont celebrate it I will like to wish you Happy Diwali. May Goddess Laxmi bless you and your family with wealth and happiness

PS. What is Hinduism?

Ah that is a very difficult question to answer but a short and sweet answer as given by the Supreme Court of India is that Hinduism is a way of life.

It is NOT an organized religion like say Islam or Christianity

Anyone and Everyone can be a Hindu