Did AQ Khan help India's Nuclear Programme?!

[Mav3rick]

Coming from a country which is a failed state with more terrorists for square mile than in any place in the world and locating in a country which chop hands of thieves and jail women who were raped - your reply is hilarious.

You have so much to be proud of, especially your beloved Khan, Pakistan Army and the fascist states you belong.

Failed state? Guess again.....Terrorists?? Well isn't one man's terrorist another man's hero? I mean over 1 Billion humans consider your country to be a terrorist state and your military trained mercenary terrorists but I am sure you guys think of them as heroes.

Now to officially correct you, we do not chop hands, which is the defined punishment in Islam. And we do not jail women who were raped. Stating those things is just plain stupid and ignorant.

 

[nirreich]

Rogue regimes? What have Iran/North Korea/Syria or Libya done to be called Rogue? Define Rogue and also the authority who awards it.

Please suggest other definition to regimes which oppress and murder their own people, terrorise their neighbours and innocent civilian populations, and aspire to develop nuclear weapons in order to continue with their despicable activities by getting immunity for their existence from external forces.

 

[nirreich]

Failed state? Guess again.....Terrorists?? Well isn't one man's terrorist another man's hero? I mean over 1 Billion humans consider your country to be a terrorist state and your military trained mercenary terrorists but I am sure you guys think of them as heroes.

Now to officially correct you, we do not chop hands, which is the defined punishment in Islam. And we do not jail women who were raped. Stating those things is just plain stupid and ignorant.

I referred to KSA in the cases of chopping hands and jailing raped women, although women which are raped in FATA condemned for immorality (but I am not sure if they jailed too).

Terrorists are criminals who justify their deliberately attacks against innocent civilians, including women and children. Israel never has such a policy and never will. Innocent people indeed hurt because Israel's military operations but as an outcome of civilian being used as human shields by terror organisations like Hamas and Hizbuallha.

I am sorry to tell you the sad truth but Pakistan is a failed state by any objective standards: dysfunctional, corrupted, and without any proper public administration and lack of democratic and liberal values.

 

[Mav3rick]

Please suggest other definition to regimes which oppress and murder their own people, terrorise their neighbours and innocent civilian populations, and aspire to develop nuclear weapons in order to continue with their despicable activities by getting immunity for their existence from external forces.

But that's what I do not agree upon, all the countries that you have mentioned especially Syria & Libya spent more on their civilians then you can imagine. Ofcourse N. Korea, a proud nation, does not possess a lot of resources and has to make do with what it has. But none of these regimes have committed any suppressions on their own citizens and they all have a right to Nuclear Weapons because they are threatened by Israel/US.

 

[nirreich]

But that's what I do not agree upon, all the countries that you have mentioned especially Syria & Libya spent more on their civilians then you can imagine. Ofcourse N. Korea, a proud nation, does not possess a lot of resources and has to make do with what it has. But none of these regimes have committed any suppressions on their own citizens and they all have a right to Nuclear Weapons because they are threatened by Israel/US.

Do the pictured and videos came from both Libya and Syria on killing civilians were produced in Hollywood? The civilians of these countries and of North Korea are without significant political rights such as freedom of speech and the chance to change the ruling regime.

These regimes are or were threatened by the US/Israel only because of their radical policy and their terrorism.

There are numerous examples to what I claimed, with a little effort you can find them yourself.

 

[Mav3rick]

I referred to KSA in the cases of chopping hands and jailing raped women, although women which are raped in FATA condemned for immorality (but I am not sure if they jailed too).

Please do not speak of things that you are not aware of or do not understand. Islam has defined punishments for criminal acts such as amputation/stoning to death etc., let me explain:

1) Islam strictly forbids stealing and punishment for stealing the first time is to sever a finger, next time a hand and so on.
2) Punishment for fornicators:
a) 100 lashes if the fornicators are not married (no adultery involved)
b) stoning to death if the fornicators are married (adulterers)

But that's not the whole picture....these punishments are based on a model Islamic society where the social and welfare system is so strong that nobody's poor, nobody goes hungry and nobody's desperate to steal, women are benchmarks of piety and respect etc. The will to steal or fornicate in that ideal society is linked to greed hence the punishment.

One of the 4 most respected Caliphs Hazrat Usman R.A. (PBUH) was so so concerned for his subjects that he used to roam the streets dressed as an ordinary citizen to investigate the plights and suffering of his citizens, if any. And he used to say that "Usman will be answerable to Allah if even a dog dies of thirst near river niel". This is just 1 of the examples of how Muslims rulers are supposed to rule.

Furthermore on the case of fornication the case has to be witnessed, as every case has to been witnessed, by atleast 2 adults who can swear that they witnessed the act of penetration with their own eyes. Any idea how difficult that is? The aim of severe punishments in Islam is to discourage sins and greed and it is considered a higher act to encourage and help a sinner quit his sins instead of taking him/her to the court. Ofcourse if the court is moved on a matter, the court must follow path to justice.

Terrorists are criminals who justify their deliberately attacks against innocent civilians, including women and children. Israel never has such a policy and never will. Innocent people indeed hurt because Israel's military operations but as an outcome of civilian being used as human shields by terror organisations like Hamas and Hizbuallha.

Israel's existence in itself is an act of terrorism, it was established on lands that belonged to others after the world became "decent". Had this happened 500 years ago nobody would have cared. So people who fight the Israeli forces are actually heroes and freedom fighters....that's how most of the world looks at them as we all see what happens to peace flotilas and innocent infants, women and men who are executed by Israeli soldiers. They are executed because the world denies them a chance to defend themselves and all those who help these freedom fighters are the real heroes.

I am sorry to tell you the sad truth but Pakistan is a failed state by any objective standards: dysfunctional, corrupted, and without any proper public administration and lack of democratic and liberal values.

Despite that we have one of the leading militaries in the world, we are a nuclear power and we are developing fast. We do have limitations but they are all imposed on us by the western countries, we are trying to break free of these imposed rulers and once that happens, we will be a model country for the world, Inshallah.

 

[nirreich]

Please do not speak of things that you are not aware of or do not understand. Islam has defined punishments for criminal acts such as amputation/stoning to death etc., let me explain:

1) Islam strictly forbids stealing and punishment for stealing the first time is to sever a finger, next time a hand and so on.
2) Punishment for fornicators:
a) 100 lashes if the fornicators are not married (no adultery involved)
b) stoning to death if the fornicators are married (adulterers)

But that's not the whole picture....these punishments are based on a model Islamic society where the social and welfare system is so strong that nobody's poor, nobody goes hungry and nobody's desperate to steal, women are benchmarks of piety and respect etc. The will to steal or fornicate in that ideal society is linked to greed hence the punishment.

One of the 4 most respected Caliphs Hazrat Usman R.A. (PBUH) was so so concerned for his subjects that he used to roam the streets dressed as an ordinary citizen to investigate the plights and suffering of his citizens, if any. And he used to say that "Usman will be answerable to Allah if even a dog dies of thirst near river niel". This is just 1 of the examples of how Muslims rulers are supposed to rule.

Furthermore on the case of fornication the case has to be witnessed, as every case has to been witnessed, by atleast 2 adults who can swear that they witnessed the act of penetration with their own eyes. Any idea how difficult that is? The aim of severe punishments in Islam is to discourage sins and greed and it is considered a higher act to encourage and help a sinner quit his sins instead of taking him/her to the court. Ofcourse if the court is moved on a matter, the court must follow path to justice.





Israel's existence in itself is an act of terrorism, it was established on lands that belonged to others after the world became "decent". Had this happened 500 years ago nobody would have cared. So people who fight the Israeli forces are actually heroes and freedom fighters....that's how most of the world looks at them as we all see what happens to peace flotilas and innocent infants, women and men who are executed by Israeli soldiers. They are executed because the world denies them a chance to defend themselves and all those who help these freedom fighters are the real heroes.





Despite that we have one of the leading militaries in the world, we are a nuclear power and we are developing fast. We do have limitations but they are all imposed on us by the western countries, we are trying to break free of these imposed rulers and once that happens, we will be a model country for the world, Inshallah.

Thank you for your explanation about the legal system of Islam but it actually reinforce and not contradict my claims about the punishment to thieves and raped women in KSA and Pakistan.

As for Israel, it has no less right to exist than Pakistan or KSA. Israel was established in the Jewish historic homeland while the Palestinians did not know they are a nation until the 1920's.

You treat people who murdered children and women and innocent people as heroes, but you blame Israel for doing the same thing. Why when your terrorist butcher innocent people they are "heroes", but someone else does it it is wrong? and of course, as I said Israel never executed innocent people and never will do this kind of horrid acts.

As for Pakistan, developing nuclear weapons and military (which is no match to professional armies of developed countries) is hardly a sign of progress, and after more than sixty years of independence it is time Pakistan stop blaming others for its own failures and concentrate on improving itself.

 

[Mav3rick]

Thank you for your explanation about the legal system of Islam but it actually reinforce and not contradict my claims about the punishment to thieves and raped women in KSA and Pakistan.

I was hoping your responses would be more 'educated' in the regard from here on.

As for Israel, it has no less right to exist than Pakistan or KSA. Israel was established in the Jewish historic homeland while the Palestinians did not know they are a nation until the 1920's.

Jews never really had a homeland, infact Judaism preaches against defined boundaries as in a separate state or country. No wonder the Jews world over do not agree with your views on Israel. But that is not the scope of my response, the actual response is that since Israel was imposed on Palestinian territory after the so called 'moral' & 'legal' international boundaries were defined, it's existence is illegal and all activities against true heirs terrorism. Despite that, I personally do not have a problem with Israel and my opinion is that since it has been established it is here to stay so we may as well accept it and continue with our lives. However, that can only happen if Israel stops atrocities on Palestinians and stops threatening her neighbors.

You treat people who murdered children and women and innocent people as heroes, but you blame Israel for doing the same thing. Why when your terrorist butcher innocent people they are "heroes", but someone else does it it is wrong? and of course, as I said Israel never executed innocent people and never will do this kind of horrid acts.

You have spoken of 2 things and our views are similar but opposite. You claim I support those who have murdered children, women and innocents/non combatants but I see your military and that of the US who are responsible directly and indirectly for all that and since I do not support you or the US it means I do not support aggressors and terrorists.

As for Pakistan, developing nuclear weapons and military (which is no match to professional armies of developed countries) is hardly a sign of progress, and after more than sixty years of independence it is time Pakistan stop blaming others for its own failures and concentrate on improving itself.

Well, whether our military is a match for any professional army of any developed country is another discussion while in the meantime why don't you ask your AirForce pilots what PAF pilots did to them over the years. Oh and also ask about ISI against your MOSSAD/CIA/RAW nexus. It might help wash off some of the illusion so you can pray that our militaries never cross path!

Moving on, we will stop blaming others for our failures as soon as they leave us in peace and stop meddling in our internal affairs through our politicians who are more inclined towards their handler countries then their own country! Things will change, slow and steady, they surely will.

 

[nirreich]

I was hoping your responses would be more 'educated' in the regard from here on.





Jews never really had a homeland, infact Judaism preaches against defined boundaries as in a separate state or country. No wonder the Jews world over do not agree with your views on Israel. But that is not the scope of my response, the actual response is that since Israel was imposed on Palestinian territory after the so called 'moral' & 'legal' international boundaries were defined, it's existence is illegal and all activities against true heirs terrorism. Despite that, I personally do not have a problem with Israel and my opinion is that since it has been established it is here to stay so we may as well accept it and continue with our lives. However, that can only happen if Israel stops atrocities on Palestinians and stops threatening her neighbors.





You have spoken of 2 things and our views are similar but opposite. You claim I support those who have murdered children, women and innocents/non combatants but I see your military and that of the US who are responsible directly and indirectly for all that and since I do not support you or the US it means I do not support aggressors and terrorists.





Well, whether our military is a match for any professional army of any developed country is another discussion while in the meantime why don't you ask your AirForce pilots what PAF pilots did to them over the years. Oh and also ask about ISI against your MOSSAD/CIA/RAW nexus. It might help wash off some of the illusion so you can pray that our militaries never cross path!

Moving on, we will stop blaming others for our failures as soon as they leave us in peace and stop meddling in our internal affairs through our politicians who are more inclined towards their handler countries then their own country! Things will change, slow and steady, they surely will.

The Jewish people had a homeland for several centuries long before Islam was born or even Arabs knew they are Arabs. Only a very small minority of Jews still think that there should not be a Jewish state - some because religious interpretation, some because they are against national idea in one way or another.

Israel was not imposed on Palestinian territory, because there was no such territory. The Ottoman Empire ruled the ME until WWI and there was no Palestinian nation until the 1920's - they defined themselves only as Arabs, and sometimes as South Syria. Until WWI only about half a million Arabs lived in the current territory of Israel and most of the land was empty. The Zionist movement and the British did not see any problem to give a very small territory for the Jewish people to have the only Jewish country in the world in half empty poorly underdeveloped land. Of course, it was guaranteed that the Arabs will have full rights in the Jewish state (and indeed they got it - Palestinians who are Israeli citizens have equal rights to the Jews and have much more political and civil rights than any Arab citizen in any other country in the ME). Hence, Israel is hardly illegitimate country and its existence is no less legitimate than the existence of Pakistan which was also established by a colonial power.

Israel never had and never will have any policy to conduct atrocities against the Arabs, nor it poses a threat to its neighbours. Israel declared in numerous occasions that it aspires to live in peace with all the countries in the ME.

If you reject terrorism then you cannot in the same time support Hamas and Hizbuallha which are terror organisations deliberately and intentionally murder innocent civilians. Hamas is proud of his suicide bombers who murdered hundreds of civilian in shopping malls, dinning places, buses, hotels and urban streets. Furthermore Hamas still launch rockets against Israeli villages and cities which are located in undisputed territory (e.g. not in the occupied territories) and terrorise their population.

On the other hand, Israel did whatever it could to minimise the suffering and the casualties of the civilian population in Gaza and Lebanon, but unfortunately the above terror organisations wants as many of their civilians to be hurt and they use then as a human shields in order to recruit international pressure against Israel to stop its military operation aiming to stop terrorism against it.

As for the Pakistani Army and its achievements, in all its conflicts with India it never achieved its objectives and operated poorly on the battlefield: although some of its units fought bravely, its command did not understand the military situation and always took the wrong decision. In 1971, this lack of professionalism led to its defeat and surrender to India. As for the ISI, they are mostly good in meddling in politics and operating terror organisations in Kashmir and Afghanistan, no more and no less.

I am familiar of the legends about the PAF pilots in the 1973 War. All I can say that they did not stop the Israel Air Force from achieving air superiority in that war although it was caught by surprise and was not ready for the war (like the rest of the Israeli military).

You politicians are elected by the Pakistani voters and are not appointed by Washington. Pakistan's economy, education system and other welfare systems are in a shamble and not because of the Americans. Still, nothing is never being done to improve the deteriorating situation and the government is too corrupt and incompetent to do anything and again not because of the US.

As for the security situation in Pakistan, it is only the product of your Army and ISI which for years nurtured terror groups and radical Islamic movement. Now, some of them turns against their benefactors. Pakistan has heavy responsibility for the situation in Afghanistan in the light of Pakistan's ISI constant efforts since the early 1970's (before the Soviet occupation) to undermine the central government in Kabul, the Pakistani support for the Taliban regime although it harboured Al-Qaeda, and the current policy of the Army the help terror organisations kill as many NATO and Americans soldiers as possible and help them to attack the institutes of the Afghan government. Pakistan is also to blame for terrorism in Kashmir and in the rest of India.

The US support Pakistan in many ways and prevent its economic collapse. Since 9/11, Pakistan has received more financial aid from the US than Israel and in return Pakistan helps to kill Americans soldiers, hide OBL, and try to prevent the US from achieving its goals in Afghanistan. Instead of thanking the US for its military and economic assistance, Pakistan's hatred towards America is highest in the world.

As long as Pakistan continue with this unhelpful attitude it will continue to sink without any connection the policies of other countries. And you should blame only your own country and leadership (both military and civilian).

 

[Mav3rick]

The Jewish people had a homeland for several centuries long before Islam was born or even Arabs knew they are Arabs. Only a very small minority of Jews still think that there should not be a Jewish state - some because religious interpretation, some because they are against national idea in one way or another.

Israel was not imposed on Palestinian territory, because there was no such territory. The Ottoman Empire ruled the ME until WWI and there was no Palestinian nation until the 1920's - they defined themselves only as Arabs, and sometimes as South Syria. Until WWI only about half a million Arabs lived in the current territory of Israel and most of the land was empty. The Zionist movement and the British did not see any problem to give a very small territory for the Jewish people to have the only Jewish country in the world in half empty poorly underdeveloped land. Of course, it was guaranteed that the Arabs will have full rights in the Jewish state (and indeed they got it - Palestinians who are Israeli citizens have equal rights to the Jews and have much more political and civil rights than any Arab citizen in any other country in the ME). Hence, Israel is hardly illegitimate country and its existence is no less legitimate than the existence of Pakistan which was also established by a colonial power.

Israel never had and never will have any policy to conduct atrocities against the Arabs, nor it poses a threat to its neighbours. Israel declared in numerous occasions that it aspires to live in peace with all the countries in the ME.

If you reject terrorism then you cannot in the same time support Hamas and Hizbuallha which are terror organisations deliberately and intentionally murder innocent civilians. Hamas is proud of his suicide bombers who murdered hundreds of civilian in shopping malls, dinning places, buses, hotels and urban streets. Furthermore Hamas still launch rockets against Israeli villages and cities which are located in undisputed territory (e.g. not in the occupied territories) and terrorise their population.

On the other hand, Israel did whatever it could to minimise the suffering and the casualties of the civilian population in Gaza and Lebanon, but unfortunately the above terror organisations wants as many of their civilians to be hurt and they use then as a human shields in order to recruit international pressure against Israel to stop its military operation aiming to stop terrorism against it.

As for the Pakistani Army and its achievements, in all its conflicts with India it never achieved its objectives and operated poorly on the battlefield: although some of its units fought bravely, its command did not understand the military situation and always took the wrong decision. In 1971, this lack of professionalism led to its defeat and surrender to India. As for the ISI, they are mostly good in meddling in politics and operating terror organisations in Kashmir and Afghanistan, no more and no less.

I am familiar of the legends about the PAF pilots in the 1973 War. All I can say that they did not stop the Israel Air Force from achieving air superiority in that war although it was caught by surprise and was not ready for the war (like the rest of the Israeli military).

You politicians are elected by the Pakistani voters and are not appointed by Washington. Pakistan's economy, education system and other welfare systems are in a shamble and not because of the Americans. Still, nothing is never being done to improve the deteriorating situation and the government is too corrupt and incompetent to do anything and again not because of the US.

As for the security situation in Pakistan, it is only the product of your Army and ISI which for years nurtured terror groups and radical Islamic movement. Now, some of them turns against their benefactors. Pakistan has heavy responsibility for the situation in Afghanistan in the light of Pakistan's ISI constant efforts since the early 1970's (before the Soviet occupation) to undermine the central government in Kabul, the Pakistani support for the Taliban regime although it harboured Al-Qaeda, and the current policy of the Army the help terror organisations kill as many NATO and Americans soldiers as possible and help them to attack the institutes of the Afghan government. Pakistan is also to blame for terrorism in Kashmir and in the rest of India.

The US support Pakistan in many ways and prevent its economic collapse. Since 9/11, Pakistan has received more financial aid from the US than Israel and in return Pakistan helps to kill Americans soldiers, hide OBL, and try to prevent the US from achieving its goals in Afghanistan. Instead of thanking the US for its military and economic assistance, Pakistan's hatred towards America is highest in the world.

As long as Pakistan continue with this unhelpful attitude it will continue to sink without any connection the policies of other countries. And you should blame only your own country and leadership (both military and civilian).

Every single para of this post deserves a befitting response but dude, I just cannot be bothered!

 

[IND151]

India tested its nuke in 1974

why would it need help of khan

 

[nirreich]

Every single para of this post deserves a befitting response but dude, I just cannot be bothered!

Do what ever you want, but I hope I gave you a food for thought.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

why all you people bother replying to this epic thread of Zionist Moron. when u people know about the source is !
Stupid thread by a stupid person.

 

[nirreich]

why all you people bother replying to this epic thread of Zionist Moron. when u people know about the source is !
Stupid thread by a stupid person.

A very intelligent and carefully phrased reply. You definitely convinced me that there is nothing in this story with your beautiful and strong arguments.

 

[arcane]

why all you people bother replying to this epic thread of Zionist Moron. when u people know about the source is !
Stupid thread by a stupid person.

i never really understood why all pakistanis hate jews...