DG ISPR press conference

[SaadH]

From the likes of Gen Akhtar Abdur Rehman, Gen Hamid Gul to this duffer…

The likes of Hamid Gul and his contemporaries were well read and possessed intellectual curiosity, quoted the likes of Toynbee and were passionate and articulate narrator of the ideology of Pakistan. With Zia's crash we lost a lot of gems including Brig. Siddiq Salik, a proper intellectual, his "Witness to Surrender/Mein nay Dhaka doobtay dekha" is a must read for all Pakistanis. We've still haven't recovered from that loss

And since the 90's there has been a general rot and decline in all institutions and matters of the state and military hasn't been immune to this development. With the ascension of the likes of BB and Sharif to the corridor of powers, nepotism and wholesale recruitment of unskilled and incompetent jiyalas and niralas in state institutions has put the cherry on the top.

 

[imadul]

I had written about this a while back in hidden words, and have heard this countless times from serving and ex-servicemen (see my post in the other thread), but I fully agree with you.

This does come off as crass, and rude, and frankly unethical as well. But it is the reality. The efforts by the military (army especially, and navy, PAF not as much) to recruit from all corners of the country and somewhat lower the barriers has created this problem. Now you might say, we need a national army and officer rank from all parts of the country, and that is true. But you have to weigh the pros vs the cons. Again, I do not want to hurt anyone's sentiments, I myself am from a pind , but this is becoming apparent day by day. You cannot expect a person who has been raised for 18 years in Layyah or Noshki to just transform after getting into PMA. The roots remain. Whether we like it or not, standards were dropped in certain cases.

On the flip side of the argument you can quote Kayani and how he carried himself, but that was the exception I believe rather than the norm. Pichlay 4/5 salon main jo jo harkatain dekhi hain (not only the COAS or DG ISI mind you), you are led to believe something needs to change. Compare the lineage and upbringing of let's say Tariq Khan with some of the current crop, and you will realize the issue.

But perhaps this is a viewpoint of the older generation fauji, and not the new one.

Mind you, this is the result of efforts in the past 15 years or so. Ab jo aur nayi generation arahi hai (Instagram fauji as I like to call them), inhain Twitter or IG par larkion kay DM say nikalnay ki fursat hi nhn mil rahi. Hi, I am Maj XYZ from Armored Corps, can I take you out for a coffee? Yes, that is a real message that a relative of mine received.

I was in NED in 80's, there were few E-Cadets. One was jamaati, highly ethical. One was from martial race side, had done several rapes by the the time he reached NED, from housemaid to other unfortunate ones. A disgusting character, and I thought these kind of people also turn up in army.
Got first hand account from a colleague while I was at SSGC how several PAF GDP's had sex with a PIA air hostess, all used same condom.
This is the ethical standard of the armed forces. I always had brushed aside that as aberration....but it seems it was not that much of aberration.

One event heard from a high officer friend from Navy who was commanding a ---- but that I won't relate.

 

[S.Y.A]

Even in modern European and North American families, to this date this is still considered.
Officer corp especially is a family oriented profession, not an economic or social ascendency play.

this theory was proved incorrect by napoleon. its not a family oriented profession, its a training and selection oriented one. and its a management issue: finding the right person for the right job.

On the flip side of the argument you can quote Kayani and how he carried himself, but that was the exception I believe rather than the norm.

nope, not the exception. just the issue that people are being chosen based on loyalty to a personality rather than on merit. choose the right person for the right job, simple as that.

also, i agree with the other point, no need to drop standards to accommodate everyone.

 

[Goritoes]

Defeated before even getting up. If it was to get food in a wedding hall, these muthafuckaz would all turn into lions..

Shaadi ka khana tu is qoum pe Allah ne Farz kia hai bhai.

 

[truthseeker2010]

Intersting...its possible that lower rank oressure led the core to come up with this decision ..

As the public sentiment is army assinated him.

Now who told core commanders to send a message .. they should have assinated him like they assinated the other 20 guys..

The public sentiment against army is increasing to such extent that they are now even unable to handle. On kashmir day they would have been saying about taking kashmir and all the related sarcastic shit. Instead they fd up by holding a presser and that too absolutely political. The seeds these Bastards at GHQ had sowed would be to hard for army to reap.

I was in NED in 80's, there were few E-Cadets. One was jamaati, highly ethical. One was from martial race side, had done several rapes by the the time he reached NED, from housemaid to other unfortunate ones. A disgusting character, and I thought these kind of people also turn up in army.
Got first hand account from a colleague while I was at SSGC how several PAF GDP's had sex with a PIA air hostess, all used same condom.
This is the ethical standard of the armed forces. I always had brushed aside that as aberration....but it seems it was not that much of aberration.

One event heard from a high officer friend from Navy who was commanding a ---- but that I won't relate.

"men at their best"

 

[SaadH]

Here is an awesome response to the terrorist ISI and ISPR press release...

Chacha has totally gone mental...

Neither is IK coming back, nor will the Generals allow him to restructure the military and make it subordinate to civilians. Leave alone fire a few generals. The day any current or future PM fires a General, triple one brigade will be out in full force...

 

[Gripen9]

The likes of Hamid Gul and his contemporaries were well read and possessed intellectual curiosity, quoted the likes of Toynbee and were passionate and articulate narrator of the ideology of Pakistan. With Zia's crash we lost a lot of gems including Brig. Siddiq Salik, a proper intellectual, his "Witness to Surrender/Mein nay Dhaka doobtay dekha" is a must read for all Pakistanis. We've still haven't recovered from that loss

And since the 90's there has been a general rot and decline in all institutions and matters of the state and military hasn't been immune to this development. With the ascension of the likes of BB and Sharif to the corridor of powers, nepotism and wholesale recruitment of unskilled and incompetent jiyalas and niralas in state institutions has put the cherry on the top.

Exactly each generation is exponentially below the previous one.

My abba was schooled at PAF Lowertopa and was taught by the last of the English/Polish officers. He even looked down upon his Sargodian comrades since PAF public school Sargodha had Pakistani teachers.
Yes a very elitist mindset but those teachers did hammer into him Duty-Country-Honor.

 

[fitpOsitive]

The nation of Pakistan should understand it that there is no shortcut towards development. People should be guided and should be given full chance to grow. When people dont live together based on interests or commonalities then happens what is happening in Pakistan. Some are victims, others are oppressors.

 

[SIPRA]

Just tell mr anjum he messed up and just resign along with bajwa mistakes ....

Here you are wrong. These are not mistakes, but deliberate criminal and treasonous acts against the nation. Secondly, traitors, criminals and thugs don't go merely by pleading; they are forced to leave. We the people of Pakistan are eternal slaves and have no power to confront this scum.

 

[ziaulislam]

Remmber the face of this man. He is junier MJ. Now he is on tv with ume areem lying on tv and defending the lies

The guy behind all this mess
But u can't blame him.
People of Pakistan thought khata hey tu lagata hey is good

https://twitter.com/x/status/1585618149206007810

He was too smart ..had been like other daffers he would have lived..
He was killed by his smartness

His investigative journalism killed him

Lol which media cell u work for?


They have never defended the Pakistani people they have been in power since Ayub khan decided to continue obeying his western masters instead of serving his countries own interests. They create our problems and then pretend to solve them.. enough of this crap we don’t want unelected officials in charge so their families can enjoy a luxuries life in the west while ordinary Pakistanis can’t even pay their bills

There is special branch called "khata hey tu lagata be hey"

 

[SIPRA]

They'll do their own "change of guards". IK is like a catalyst here....

"Change of guards" wouldn't change the nature of our Establishment. They were and are traitors and would remain so. Pakistan has lost the right to exist. Better, if it is broken into pieces.

Is he crying?

Some people are suggesting, he is drunk. I have not seen the conference of this duo of traitors.

 

[Clutch]

Chacha has totally gone mental...

Neither is IK coming back, nor will the Generals allow him to restructure the military and make it subordinate to civilians. Leave alone fire a few generals. The day any current of future fires a General, triple one brigade will be out in full force...

I agree... Imran Khan is going to be killed soon.

Pakistan on the other hand... To be honest... It's done and finished... The generals are milking the failed state to the last drop while running off to their $Million mansions in the West.

I have tried to distance myself away from the forum and these news now too...because frankly it's both depressing and hopeless.

Yesterday I was working late at night and I kid you not I was left open mouthed at seeing the DG ISI holding the press conference in the suit.

Then I watched the replay, and seeing his James Bond style entry, then his way of speaking, his facial expressions, his innuendos, the planted journos on the front row...I was actually left shocked and that's the first time I think I was really disappointed into what the ISI and the military establishment has brought upon themselves and the institution itself.

I have heard that there is some internal resentment over this shenanigan as well, but I am cut off these days so waiting for stronger confirmation on this.

The latest is that Rana Sanaullah is saying Imran Khan ordered the murder
...


Pakistan is truely a failed state.

 

[SaadH]

This is what happens when you recruit officers from all rungs of society. In our quest to make a "national" army, we forgot the cardinal rule for any military. Recruit your officer corp from the right stock or else (leaders always shape the standards). Pakistan's army experiment to become a national army has destroyed this institution. In the early days of the institution proportionally Pushtuns represented a far larger segment of the officer corp, whereas the proportional majority of the soldiers were from Punjab. As that proportion changed along with the "class" (you can hate me for saying this), the overall quality of the institution dropped. There was a strong line of families that fit the bill, of either good officers or good soldiers. Many Pashtuns (generally those that settled in Punjab), who could easily straddle the Pushtun-Punjabi line were the best crop to get the officer corp. Whereas the NCO came from certain areas of Punjab and KPK. That changed and with that the caliber. Combine that with consistent Martial Laws, Cantts in the middle of cities, the entire military industrial complex, along with the system of military and retired military patronage, and today Pakistan finds itself in a position that we have these two represent two of the more critical functions the Pak Army. We are royally "screwed". Allah is the only one protecting us. What a complete disaster.

I alluded to this conspicuous absence of Pukhtuns of late in the top brass when the opposite was true until the 90's and I was ostracized by the Army brats and Punjabi nationalists here. The last high profile Pukhtun core commander was TK and there hasn't been one pushing the COAS mantle for some time.

And I do agree, officer corps has to come from aristocratic/elite backgrounds who have the confidence and gravitas to lead men and handle high pressured multi-dimensional environment. Sadly this only applies to nation that weren't thoroughly colonized unlike us. The elites in our country are doubly beholden to colonial powers.

 

[Fasbre2]

"Change of guards" wouldn't change the nature of our Establishment. They were and are traitors and would remain so. Pakistan has lost the right to exist. Better, if it is broken into pieces.



Some people are suggesting, he is drunk. I have not seen the conference of this duo of traitors.

The upper tier of generals are all whisky drinkers and can be bought with a bottle of southern comfort or Johnny walkers. Musharraf purged the army of the God fearing and pious ones. What we see is the result…

 

[SIPRA]

Only solution is Inqilab

Not possible. We are a docile and slavish nation.