Democracy Wins!

[Barrett]

Zardari is doing all this because he wants to become or at least tries to become a political martyr (siasi shaheed) like his father in-law ZA Bhutto and wife Benazir before him. However, the former two had some support among the Pakistanis, this fellow, enjoys no such support. He'll loose every thing in the gain of nothing, neither for himself nor his party composed of few stooges surround him all the time (Taseer, Naik, Kaira, Fouzia etc.).

Spot on......
Few days back while breaking bread with two very senior officials, one from cabinet and the other a Lt.Gen, I asked them what next? the later replied, "Zardari wants to make the situation so bad that there is no other option left other then the army taking control of the Presidency by force and then he will play the innocent and sindh card, which will be rejected by the masses like all his decisions so far"

 

[Adios Amigo]

Welcome, please introduce yourself first in the introduction section.

The same game being played again. Sorry to say but CJ has become a political party and is maneuvering through his cohorts in the SC. President, whatsoever maybe his profile and reputation, has the constitutional right to decide. CJ can only recommend, not force his recommendation.

To some extent what you said is correct.

Zardari himself is a corrupt leader otherwise any sane head of state can simply sack the CJ for this blatant constitutional violation.

As per constitution, No head of state(president) can sack CJ, he can only appoint him, but cannot sack him.

CJ needs to resign and create a political party or join PML N, Imran Khan's tonga party or JI. SC has truly become a political party and this is dangerous for any democratic country.

Just because these parties struggled for his reinstatement, so shall he join them or shall he make his own party???
I think Zardari needs to resign and listen to the voice of millions in Pakistan, or else things will go dirty and yet wouldn't yield fruitful.

As for the appointment of judges, the whole concept is flawed. It should be the parliament that should decide and PM should recommend, a slight variation of the US procedure.

Thats not the issue here, recommendation is made by CJ and president must not go against it. If the procedure is wrong or the concept is flawed then amendments should be made in the constitution by the parliament, CJ cant do anything but to accept it.

Also judges are not holy cows and they are being criticized and ridiculed in every truly democratic country.

Criticism is more then ok, if it is for the sake of betterment and for that matter should be allowed with in limits of decency, but Ridiculing them?? that's totally nonsense.

Only the biased media of Pakistan think of them as the holiest. Pakistan is heading in a pitiable direction.

Media has emerged truly as the forth pillar, it was also criticized at the time of Musharraf for being bias, same music being played again, for selfish reasons. Some quarters of media may be bias but as whole it has done a tremendous job of public awareness, no matter what you do, you cant hide it now.

Bottom line is Good has to stay, Bad has to go no matter how hard the fight is because the Ugly has become informed.






adios

 

[Shez]

Dear, I dont agree with you.
CJ recomands and PM, Presidnet appointe new justice merit...........its the system that brought elegibility of Judges and on merit. So wt the hell Zardari is doing.....why he is distrbing system and constitutation...he want his people to come up and save his future.

CJ and judicary is not a political party..........please study abt Pakistan constitution and laws, which unfortunately our politicians never follow.



I agree with ur opinion that we need some batter process where we can stop corruption , but this peocedure for electing judges is in our constitution.......and secondly our parliment is not that strong to bring or elect persons on merit.......infact many parlimentarians, MNA's and MPA's dont deserve the places which they have now, coz they are not on merit to do tha job so how can they elect or recomand corruption free judicary.....

I hope u can understand now

Every sane person knows that CJ is more of a political leader now. He has lost his impartiality. He manipulates and forces his decisions through his street power provided by lawyers and some disgruntled 'leaders' that are unable to win any elections. Is this constitutional that CJ's best friends decide the case within an hour and at this time of night? This is more of judicial activism that is not allowed in any true democratic country.

Yes, parliament does have many corrupt leaders but that is what Pakistan truly is. People have selected them so they have every right of representation. People in Pakistan don't understand democracy and welcome military dictators because of this whole reason. They simply don't allow democracy to flourish and purge itself through a sustained process.

 

[qsaark]

I guess you should read it too instead of standing up for your CJ party.

pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/part7.ch2.html][Chapter 2: The Supreme Court of Pakistan] of [Part VII: The Judicature][/url]

President needs to 'consult' not 'obey' the CJ recommendation. Here is our CJ that orders his fellow judges to issue a judgment within an hour or two of hearing and at this time of night. This nothing short of shameful.

The description of the constitutional clauses is the job of the court. The description of the article 177 (on the appointment of the Justices) is already established in the 1996 historical Al-Jihad trust case.

 

[MZUBAIR]

I guess you should read it too instead of standing up for your CJ party.

pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/part7.ch2.html][Chapter 2: The Supreme Court of Pakistan] of [Part VII: The Judicature][/url]

President needs to 'consult' not 'obey' the CJ recommendation. Here is our CJ that orders his fellow judges to issue a judgment within an hour or two of hearing and at this time of night. This nothing short of shameful.

CJ is a party, not an impartial judge. Zardari is corrupt and no one is denying that but he is democratically elected president and has every right to exercise his power.

This whole episode is shameful. A constitutional amendment is needed where this power goes directly to legislature just like in the US and other countries.. That would be the most transparent process.

God bless on ur mentality.

CJ only follows the constitution....which he is doing.
And I must say shame on those people who say that Zardari is Democratic president......he only hijacked PPP after pisssing on BIBI

 

[MZUBAIR]

Every sane person knows that CJ is more of a political leader now. He has lost his impartiality. He manipulates and forces his decisions through his street power provided by lawyers and some disgruntled 'leaders' that are unable to win any elections. Is this constitutional that CJ's best friends decide the case within an hour and at this time of night? This is more of judicial activism that is not allowed in any true democratic country.

Yes, parliament does have many corrupt leaders but that is what Pakistan truly is. People have selected them so they have every right of representation. People in Pakistan don't understand democracy and welcome military dictators because of this whole reason. They simply don't allow democracy to flourish and purge itself through a sustained process.

Give me a single thing that he forcefully did.........Dont blame him or throw hanky phanky.......

Wt abt NRO decision, why GOV didnt acted upon it?

Read constitution first....

All of us (common peopl) paying texas on food,clothes fuel ec almost every thing in our life for Gov...and wt they are doing.

Zardari violated the constitution.......he is not selcting judges on merit.

 

[Shez]

God bless on ur mentality.

CJ only follows the constitution....which he is doing.
And I must say shame on those people who say that Zardari is Democratic president......he only hijacked PPP after pisssing on BIBI

Shame on you for thinking that he is unconstitutional. I am not saying that he is holy -- even his wife was not a clean leader and had serious charges of corruption and extra judicial killings. The thing is that he has received votes from all four provincial assemblies and national parliament and this make him CONSTITUTIONAL president. Brag on about his lewd character but the fact remains the same. Accept this fact.

By the way, constitution does not say to summon the court at night and churn out a decision in an hour.

 

[MZUBAIR]

Watch TV.....wt experts saying.
Pak need revolution.....and I appreciade judicary serious actions

 

[Shez]

Give me a single thing that he forcefully did.........Dont blame him or throw hanky phanky.......

Wt abt NRO decision, why GOV didnt acted upon it?

Read constitution first....

All of us (common peopl) paying texas on food,clothes fuel ec almost every thing in our life for Gov...and wt they are doing.

Zardari violated the constitution.......he is not selcting judges on merit.

I need no dig into history as his most recent decision is nothing short of forceful.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I guess you should read it too instead of standing up for your CJ party.

pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/part7.ch2.html][Chapter 2: The Supreme Court of Pakistan] of [Part VII: The Judicature][/url]

President needs to 'consult' not 'obey' the CJ recommendation. Here is our CJ that orders his fellow judges to issue a judgment within an hour or two of hearing and at this time of night. This nothing short of shameful.

CJ is a party, not an impartial judge. Zardari is corrupt and no one is denying that but he is democratically elected president and has every right to exercise his power.

This whole episode is shameful. A constitutional amendment is needed where this power goes directly to legislature just like in the US and other countries.. That would be the most transparent process.

As Qsaark pointed out, the interpretation of the clauses of the constitution falls upon the courts, and the courts decided in the Al Jihad case that the recommendation of the CJ was binding.

You cannot just impose your own interpretation because you are allied with one party - the SC has established an interpretation, and the only way around that is for another SC to interpret that clause differently or for parliament to amend the constitution to support your version.

The CJ has done nothing to resign - Zardari however has done plenty.

 

[Shez]

As Qsaark pointed out, the interpretation of the clauses of the constitution falls upon the courts, and the courts decided in the Al Jihad case that the recommendation of the CJ was binding.

You cannot just impose your own interpretation because you are allied with one party - the SC has established an interpretation, and the only way around that is for another SC to interpret that clause differently or for parliament to amend the constitution to support your version.

The CJ has done nothing to resign - Zardari however has done plenty.

CJ has done nothing? He is a party now. What is all this fuss with lawyers going in all directions and threatening the writ of government on his orders? If he has any moral standing than he should resign.

 

[Barrett]

Every sane person knows that CJ is more of a political leader now. He has lost his impartiality. He manipulates and forces his decisions through his street power provided by lawyers and some disgruntled 'leaders' that are unable to win any elections.

Every sane person in this country realizes that CJ is a person who is standing by the constitution of this country and has taken on anyone who had tried to violate it, even if he is the top man of the country.
He manipulates and enforces his decisions as the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan and he does not need any street power.
The street power and liking comes because of his decisions which are supported by the masses of the country and this country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it.

Is this constitutional that CJ's best friends decide the case within an hour and at this time of night? This is more of judicial activism that is not allowed in any true democratic country.

It is completely constitutional for a Supreme Court bench to pronounce an unconstitutional decision null and void. As far as the time is concerned "Justice delayed is justice denied."
There are alot of other things that are not allowed in any true democratic country and it is the responsibility of the Courts to safeguard that, which IMHO is exactly what the SC is doing right now.

Yes, parliament does have many corrupt leaders but that is what Pakistan truly is. People have selected them so they have every right of representation. People in Pakistan don't understand democracy and welcome military dictators because of this whole reason. They simply don't allow democracy to flourish and purge itself through a sustained process.

Those who are inclined to compromise can never make a change.

The people of Pakistan have elected them to serve them and not to rule them.

 

[qsaark]

By the way, constitution does not say to summon the court at night and churn out a decision in an hour.

Who knows the law? those who have spent their entire adult lives in this profession or you? Where in the Constitution it is 'prevented' to summon a court in the night?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

BTW, I find it ironic that the PPP supporters and so called 'liberal commentators' are criticizing the SC in much the same manner in which the Musharraf supporters were criticizing the SC.

Back then it was the PPP and PML-N supporters sticking up for the SC and CJ and media for exposing corruption and unconstitutional acts - now that the PPP leadership is engaging in unconstitutional acts, these same people have turned into hypocrites and are bashing the SC for the sake of Zardari.

Liberal commentators have lost a great opportunity IMO to solidify themselves amongst the masses by standing up for what is right and condemning the unconstitutional actions of the PPP and Zardari. Instead, they chose to play politics and malign the SC for acting in accordance with the law and tried to link it to the 'military establishment' - a farcical claim as any given that these same judges and lawyers were responsible for throwing the military under Musharraf out of power in the first place.

Hypocrites.

 

[Shez]

Every sane person in this country realizes that CJ is a person who is stood by the constitution of this country and has taken on anyone who had tried to violate it, even if he is the top man of the country.
He manipulates and enforces his decisions as the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan and he does not need any street power.
The street power and liking comes because of his decisions which are supported by the masses of the country and this country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it.




It is completely constitutional for a Supreme Court bench to pronounce an unconstitutional decision null and void. As far as the time is concerned "Justice delayed is justice denied."
There are alot of other things that are not allowed in any true democratic country and it is the responsibility of the Courts to safeguard that, which IMHO is exactly what the SC is doing right now.




Those who are inclined to compromise can never make a change.

The people of Pakistan have elected them to serve them and not to rule them.

Your whole premise is flawed. Do not expect Pakistanis to become totally transparent and democratic in one day. Give democracy a chance; that is the only solution.

Parliament needs to take immediate action and do some constitutional amendments otherwise this fight between CJ and president will take a turn for the worse.