Democracy is a failed experiment

[jbond197]

It's just a name, not really an objective description.

The more academic description would be "state capitalism".

Yeah, it's just the name you have turned into a capitalist economy and with time will turn into a democracy. Btw, It's not a bad idea to grasp concepts slowly and gradually..

And I can only laugh when anybody says democracy is a failed experiment based on some rubbish ideas. What's wrong if people are angry? if they are angry democracy offers them a tool to change the govt they are unhappy with.. In other places, you may remain angry and can not do jack about it...

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Yeah, it's just the name you have turned into a capitalist economy and with time will turn into a democracy.

Maybe, maybe not.

China has had hundreds of revolutions in history, if there is another one in the future, then it's not really a big deal. The fundamental character of China has always stayed the same.

 

[jbond197]

Maybe, maybe not.

China has had hundreds of revolutions in history, if there is another one in the future, then it's not really a big deal. The fundamental character of China has always stayed the same.

Why do you think there will be a revolution in China in future? If your point is about becoming democracy then I think revolution is not needed. I believe you already are on the right track and have moved away from communism any ways. With time and accompanied by democracies, you will gradually get enlightened and grab the concept. You really don't need to shed blood for Democracy as it is not blood thirsty..

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Why do you think there will be a revolution in China in future? If your point is about becoming democracy then I believe you are on the right track and have moved away from communism any ways. With time, you will gradually get enlightened. No need to shed blood for Democracy as it is not blood thirsty..

Hahaha no I just don't really care what government I have as long as it is effective.

On the topic of mass protests in China, you should read this. The people in Dalian protested on the streets, and the Government backed down and agreed to their demands.

The New Epicenter of China's Discontent - Foreign Policy

According to this same article... there are 90,000 similar protests in China every year.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

You have been reported for insulting forum members and trying to incite flaming. Please behave yourself.

grow some balls and come back with your true flags .

 

[below_freezing]

With huge income inequality between rich and poor and with top 10% rich population holding more than 50% of the wealth you can not really be called a socialist state in my opinion.. As it happens in other places, rich people's interest is served well in China as well and the poor gets exploited. Sorry, but I think I need to get a new definition of Socialism from you to fit China into the picture..

20 years of capitalist exploitation under the US backed military dictator Deng Xiaoping and the US backed kleptocrat Jiang Zemin (well, until he offended his white masters and they slapped his face in 1996, then again in 1999, then once more in 2001) is hard to reverse in 10 years. unfortunately, the capitalists are about to hijack the CPC once again and China will enter another dark age of military dictatorship and kleptocracy after 10 years in the sun. There's still hope in 2022 though... or if things get politically unstable we might be lucky and the kleptocratic princelings will get voted out in 2017.

Mao even said: If the capitalists hijack the CPC, the CPC would no longer be true communism. this CPC will be far more cruel than the capitalists themselves. It will become a party of fascists, and it is the duty of the people to smash this false CPC.

 

[jbond197]

Hahaha no I just don't really care what government I have as long as it is effective.

On the topic of mass protests in China, you should read this. The people in Dalian protested on the streets, and the Government backed down and agreed to their demands.

The New Epicenter of China's Discontent - Foreign Policy

According to this same article... there are 90,000 similar protests in China every year.

Good for you!! I will consider that as a major mindset change on CCP side.. and may be this is your first step towards democracy.

I am in favor of protests as long as it is peaceful and does not cause damage to public property.. It's just the only way people have to vent out their anger and to show the ruling class that it's about time they stop their stupidity.. If people don't protest then their routine non-sense will never end.. Glad to know that these protests were not handled high-handedly and hope the same be reciprocated with other protests as well..

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Good for you!! I will consider that as a major mindset change on CCP side.. and may be this is your first step towards democracy.

I am in favor of protests as long as it is peaceful and does not cause damage to public property.. It's just the only way people have to vent out their anger and to show the ruling class that it's about time they stop their stupidity.. If people don't protest then their routine non-sense will never end.. Glad to know that these protests were not handled high-handedly and hope the same be reciprocated with other protests as well..

You might be disappointed if you think we will turn into a "Western-style democracy".

The idea is to increase freedoms within the existing framework first, that is the current goal set by the Chinese leaders anyway. What happens after that, is anyone's guess.

 

[jbond197]

20 years of capitalist exploitation under the US backed military dictator Deng Xiaoping and the US backed kleptocrat Jiang Zemin (well, until he offended his white masters and they slapped his face in 1996, then again in 1999, then once more in 2001) is hard to reverse in 10 years. unfortunately, the capitalists are about to hijack the CPC once again and China will enter another dark age of military dictatorship and kleptocracy after 10 years in the sun. There's still hope in 2022 though... or if things get politically unstable we might be lucky and the kleptocratic princelings will get voted out in 2017.

Mao even said: If the capitalists hijack the CPC, the CPC would no longer be true communism. this CPC will be far more cruel than the capitalists themselves. It will become a party of fascists, and it is the duty of the people to smash this false CPC.

I am sorry I don't know but is there a way you can throw CPC out.. What options do you have? This is where democracy is at advantage, you only give suckers to rule 5 years only and then can vote them out in case they don't perform..

On other point, any protest in China at this point will honestly serve the interests of others and stop your impressive growth. BTW, I don't understand why you hate capitalists in CPC so much.. I think they are doing fine job..

 

[jbond197]

You might be disappointed if you think we will turn into a "Western-style democracy".

The idea is to increase freedoms within the existing framework first, that is the current goal set by the Chinese leaders anyway. What happens after that, is anyone's guess.

Being in Hongkong, you are already are living in so called "Western-style democracy" . BTW, I don't know what "Western-style democracy" really is? Democracy is democracy and each country have different legislatures to implement democracy in one way or other and I am sure you will have your own version if by any chance you opt for it..

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Being in Hongkong, you are already are living in so called "Western-style democracy" . BTW, I don't know what "Western-style democracy" really is? Democracy is democracy and each country have different legislatures to implement democracy in one way or other and I am sure you will have your own version if by any chance you opt for it..

Nope, we have no universal suffrage.

We can vote for up to half the legislators in LegCo. But all the high positions are made by appointment.

We were never able to vote for our leaders, either the British chose them (like Chris Patten) or Beijing chose them (like Donald Tsang).

So of course I prefer it when Beijing choses them, better to have leaders who are fellow Hong Kong Chinese, rather than British expats like Chris Patten.

 

[huzihaidao12]

Here is another example of the variability of democratic institutions that can best serve a nation...

BBC News - Switzerland country profile

The President is not directly elected by the citizenry, is ceremonial and serves mostly as the voice for the Cabinet. Despite this apparently undemocratic structure which has similarities to some dictatorships, the presence of LEGAL opposition parties inside and external to government and an independent press made Switzerland a functional democracy.

I ask you one thing, you do not consider its applicability? You think that developing countries are able to do it? You do not consider any realistic conditions?

 

[jbond197]

Nope, we have no universal suffrage.

We can vote for up to half the legislators in LegCo. But all the high positions are made by appointment.

We were never able to vote for our leaders, either the British chose them (like Chris Patten) or Beijing chose them (like Donald Tsang).

So of course I prefer it when Beijing choses them, better to have leaders who are fellow Hong Kong Chinese, rather than British expats like Chris Patten.

That's news to me.. So British still make appointments.. I thought they are all gone; turning you into a real democracy, which will last till like 2050.. Clearly, I was wrong there..

 

[huzihaidao12]

It does not matter if there is a protest. The governments reaction to the protest is what matters.

A recent example, Dalian, a city in China, because the public opposed the establishment of a chemical project, they protest in the joints, and then canceled the project by the government.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

That's news to me.. So British still make appointments.. I thought they are all gone; turning you into a real democracy, which will last till like 2050.. Clearly, I was wrong there..

Haha no we never had any "real democracy" in Hong Kong, and especially not under the British.

Today, Beijing makes the high appointments, and personally I am happy with that.

(Except for Tung Chee Hwa, that guy was an ***, and we ended up forcing him out of office.)