Pretty much the simple jist of it. No $ moola at this time with defense HQ's. They are even defaulting on already delivered equipment payments.
Delivery of PAA AH-1Z postponed !
- Thread starter SSGcommandoPAK
- Start date
Pretty much the simple jist of it. No $ moola at this time with defense HQ's. They are even defaulting on already delivered equipment payments.
alee92nawaz
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2015
- Messages
- 2,067
- Reaction score
- -3
- Country
- Location
agreed
These are USMC spec AH-1Zs, if there is no hope for delivery to Pakistan the US could simply divert them to USMC. Till not transferred to USMC their delivery to Pakistan is hopeful.
I think its not a money issue but rather some disputes with Bell and their local rep with regards to maintenance procedures and billing. After overcharging (also billed to US tax payers) and delays Pakistan has started started maintaining/overhauling Bell-412s and AH-1s on it's own. PA actually returned 5 UH-1s supplied by US for border management and didn't exercise it's option to buy them because maintenance issues.
Pakistan returns US helicopters used to monitor Pak-Afghan border
October 30, 2017
http://www.historyofpia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=25884
They might have delayed AH-1Z deliveries but if you look at recent pictures and videos of our old Cobras you can see dramatic change in condition. The ones shown at the 23rd March parade looked pristine.
Same goes for Mi-17s, PAA was maintaining some of them through coalition support funds as well but now PA has a in house facility.
Problems with Bell arn't new for Pakistan.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1055153
November 09, 2013
Facebook Count113
Twitter Share
8
— File photo
ISLAMABAD: Two companies supplying helicopters to the army have been blacklisted for allegedly leaking sensitive information to the United States.
The companies — Aerotron Private Ltd and Aerotron FZE (AF) — which had been supplying Bell and Sikorsky helicopters to the army for over 38 years were blacklisted on May 26 last year because of security reasons.
The companies had challenged the ban in the Islamabad High Court in September last year. At the request of the military authorities, the IHC had held the proceedings in camera and recently reserved its judgment.
In a joint reply submitted to the court through their counsel Tariq Mehmood Jahangiri, the respondents — chief of general staff, director general of the Military Intelligence, general officer commanding and director general of procurement (army) — alleged that the companies had “passed on to an unauthorised person classified information pertaining to the Pakistan Army”.
The sensitive information had been provided to the US Office of Defence Representative in Pakistan by Azhar Wali Mohammad and Fahad Azhar. It said: “The petitioners (companies) had no reason to pass on that information to the US office.”
The reply claimed that during a meeting with senior officials of the MI in Rawalpindi in Sept 2011, the companies’ owners admitted that they had passed on the information but insisted that it was not classified. According to them, it was available in the media and was essential for business purposes. “If the petitioners are concerned about their fundamental rights and wanted their enforcement under the constitution of Pakistan, they should also be cognizant of their duty to remain loyal to the state under the provision of the same constitution,” the reply argued.
The petitioners had challenged the May 26, 2012 letter by the director general procurement, informing them that their companies had been barred from any business deal with the army and defence organisations because of security reasons.
They said their principal, Bell Helicopters Supply Centre in the Netherlands, had been informed on May 9. The army told the centre that it had severed its ties with the Aerotron companies on Oct 14, 2011, and requested it to stop communications with the companies and their representatives.
During the hearing, the petitioners’ counsel, Abdul Hafeez Pirzada, said that after the ban the companies served legal notice on the respondents but they neither responded nor pointed out any illegality on part of the petitioners.
He argued that the reference to security concerns in the May 9 letter to the Bell Helicopters Supply Centre was ambiguous and insufficient to constitute a valid reason as required by law. Also it was written without informing or providing the companies an opportunity to show cause and being heard to rebut any alleged ground for the purported decision of blacklisting.
“The executive and public functionaries under the constitution cannot take any unilateral decision or pass an adverse order without hearing the accused party,” the counsel argued.
These are un-related OLD NEWS!
python-000
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2017
- Messages
- 2,279
- Reaction score
- -1
- Country
- Location
Why Couldn't we can not jointly develop something like this or better then that with China & Turkey...
BHarwana
MODERATOR
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2016
- Messages
- 24,827
- Reaction score
- 20
- Country
- Location
These birds are not coming because USA is looking towards India for orders. Now look at F-16 case of Pakistan. The jets were blocked from deliveries to Pakistan and when Indian was asked to purchase US fighter Jets India rejected F-16. India cannot find any fighter Jet better than F-16 but the problem is that they know Pakistan has F-16 and know them very well and Pakistan can counter F-16 so India will not buy F-16 ever. Now USA blocked sales of F-16 to Pakistan in a greed of getting order from India in this whole effort USA lost alliance with Pakistan and also lost on sale of F-16. More over USA pushed Pakistan into China by making Pakistan jointly produce JF-17 which now turns out to be the biggest competitor to US F-16. It is American policies which is hurting USA more than anything. Now what will be the outcome of this whole AH-1Z drama? In the end Pakistan will find an alternate platform and India will again deviate from US weapons to Russian weapons. So who will lose in the end?
These events are very similar to the era of when USA blocked F-16s to Pakistan and after sometime there were JF-17 flying. At that very moment it was depressing for Pakistani that F-16 sales were blocked to them but today I would probably thank USA and India for blocking F-16 because it them that we have JF-17 today.
In this very same manner Pakistan Army should follow the Path of Pakistan Airforce and develop it's own platform. If Army like AH-1Z it can get engine from Russia and develop a platform Just like it. In this whole ambition South Africa could be of great help or eastern Europe.
These events are very similar to the era of when USA blocked F-16s to Pakistan and after sometime there were JF-17 flying. At that very moment it was depressing for Pakistani that F-16 sales were blocked to them but today I would probably thank USA and India for blocking F-16 because it them that we have JF-17 today.
In this very same manner Pakistan Army should follow the Path of Pakistan Airforce and develop it's own platform. If Army like AH-1Z it can get engine from Russia and develop a platform Just like it. In this whole ambition South Africa could be of great help or eastern Europe.
Cuirassier
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2017
- Messages
- 1,218
- Reaction score
- 10
- Country
- Location
Waiting for Multan Avn Base to get 'ready' for receiving these beauts.
Imran Khan
PDF VETERAN
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2007
- Messages
- 68,815
- Reaction score
- 5
- Country
- Location
Growing flowers there?
Peaceful Civilian
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2011
- Messages
- 12,098
- Reaction score
- 8
- Country
- Location
No, still yet we didn't pay.
alee92nawaz
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2015
- Messages
- 2,067
- Reaction score
- -3
- Country
- Location
You are forgetting a big reason.
" We were not paying for those blocked 8 F-16s
Do you live nearby? On last 6th sep cobras did a flyover over the ground where the exhibition was going on.
BHarwana
MODERATOR
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2016
- Messages
- 24,827
- Reaction score
- 20
- Country
- Location
For you it is a reason but for me it is an American excuse.
LeGenD
MODERATOR
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2006
- Messages
- 15,813
- Reaction score
- 162
- Country
- Location
@BHarwana
Money Talks, Bullshit Walks.
American corporations do not CARE about Pakistani contributions to US-led War On Terror, and Pakistan's entitlement to Coalition Support Fund in connection; they only CARE about getting PAID for their hardware. Pay them, and they will sell you even F-35.
Pakistan does not have sufficient funds to spare for expensive gear at the moment, unfortunately. India is a RICH potential customer on the other hand. This is why you see US is giving India mouth-watering offers.
Money Talks, Bullshit Walks.
American corporations do not CARE about Pakistani contributions to US-led War On Terror, and Pakistan's entitlement to Coalition Support Fund in connection; they only CARE about getting PAID for their hardware. Pay them, and they will sell you even F-35.
Pakistan does not have sufficient funds to spare for expensive gear at the moment, unfortunately. India is a RICH potential customer on the other hand. This is why you see US is giving India mouth-watering offers.
BHarwana
MODERATOR
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2016
- Messages
- 24,827
- Reaction score
- 20
- Country
- Location
LOL you are a wise man and still you talk such things. So if money talks why are Saudis not getting F-35?
American Firms would have got money from CSF. It is not about money but it is about politics. Pakistan is buying helicopters from Russia and they are doing it with money. Do you think Russians give Mi-35 for free? Pakistan has buying JF-17 do you think these birds come for free? Sorry money is being paid US don't want to sell to Pakistan their policy to create a dominant India in subcontinent is more than visible now.
LeGenD
MODERATOR
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2006
- Messages
- 15,813
- Reaction score
- 162
- Country
- Location
Bro,
F-35 was originally supposed to be NATO-specific bird, but numerous countries want it who also have cash.
US is looking into the prospects of selling F-35 to KSA and UAE because both want this bird. US is even looking at the option to create an alternative of F-35 for countries outside NATO.
US have already OK'ed sale of THAAD system to KSA. Nobody wants to loose a good customer.
BHarwana
MODERATOR
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2016
- Messages
- 24,827
- Reaction score
- 20
- Country
- Location
USA has sold F-35 aside from NATO countries. Israel was their first customer Bro. Now you said USA will do it for money and If it only happens for money why is F-35 not in KSA? These are all excuses bro no matter which ever way you take it. US south Asia policy is to starve Pakistan into submission and that is where USA made its mistake.
Please be realistic.
