Debate between Pak-Army Soldier & Taliban & Pakistan's WoT

[Icarus]

@StandForInsaf: Pakistan Army = Professional Army? I think you missed the torture videos.

One or two isolated incidents, your terrorist idols practically own that department.

Or forgot 2000+ missing people. ?

1) The figure is 354, don't over inflate it.
2) Only about 40 of these have been found to be in custody of the security forces, the rest could have been kidnapped for ransom or killed on account of family disputes, wouldn't be the first time.

real patriots: yeah, One Bush Phone Call, Patriots pi$$ in their pants and SELL the country.. Army for Sale.. No morals, no ethics.. just $$$

Allowing transit and selling the country are two distinctly different things, get an IQ before you pretend to be smarter than you are......

 

[A.Muqeet khan]

Please dont quote Dr Tahir ul Padri... he is sitting in Goras Lap. Cuts christmas cake, sings their praises, dances, people prostrate in front of him etc

The Kharijis, according to the hadith, will they FIGHT america and its allies, or take american aid? Mind you Pak Army (and our beloved country) takes billions of $$$$ and arms etc from United States of Muslimerica.

The kharijis, will kill help kill hundreds of innocents by giving america bases, nato supply, drones etc? or fight the people giving it?

Please define kharjis according to hadis, also define murtads when you do that.. and see which one fits who.

If suicide bombing is haram, please remind us what did Brave Pakistani soldiers do beneath indian tanks with bombs, or palestinians in israel?

I agree, people doing suicide blasts in PUBLIC places killing innocents is totally wrong... but killing ARMED AMERICANS and their ALLIES, that is a totally different ball game..

And if someone thinks WE are NOT american allies.... well, are you up??

----

@StandForInsaf: Pakistan Army = Professional Army? I think you missed the torture videos. Or forgot 2000+ missing people. ?
real patriots: yeah, One Bush Phone Call, Patriots pi$$ in their pants and SELL the country.. Army for Sale.. No morals, no ethics.. just $$$

prove it by giving proof or delete it

 

[niazifighter]

the attacks were happening and this to is a fact

does the comparison shown above points to nothing????

when lal masjid was reduced to rubbles religious fervour of religious fanatics lead to a unprecedented war which ensued and continued uptill now can this fact be denied

10 attacks from 2001 to 2007 july and 13 attacks in just six months of 2007 isn't a great upheavel???

there was no taliban phenomenon with full zeal in swat and bajaur before lal masjid if it was then please correct me with facts?

don't run away like slides

 

[Icarus]

does the comparison shown above points to nothing????

when lal masjid was reduced to rubbles religious fervour of religious fanatics lead to a unprecedented war which ensued and continued uptill now can this fact be denied

10 attacks from 2001 to 2007 july and 13 attacks in just six months of 2007 isn't a great upheavel???

there was no taliban phenomenon with full zeal in swat and bajaur before lal masjid if it was then please correct me with facts?

don't run away like slides

Says who ? The Taliban had already established a firm foothold in FATA and Swat. Infact, Maulvi Faqir Mohammad had passed a Fatwa declaring "The Islamic Emirate of Bajaur" to be an extension of Afghanistan in early 2007. The Taliban established their their first radio station in Swat in 2004, so how can you say that there were no Taliban before Lal Masjid ?
The Lal Masjid Operation was completely justified. No one can be allowed to form a parallel government, no one can be allowed to challenge the state and nobody can be allowed to spew hate. Lal Masjid clerics were involved in abduction, land grabbing, extortion and armed rebellion against the state. They weren't running a mosque or a madrassah, they were running a house of conspiracy, and the Holy Prophet(P.B.U.H) already showed by example what should be done with such a place of fitna.

 

[niazifighter]

Says who ? The Taliban had already established a firm foothold in FATA and Swat. Infact, Maulvi Faqir Mohammad had passed a Fatwa declaring "The Islamic Emirate of Bajaur" to be an extension of Afghanistan in early 2007. The Taliban established their their first radio station in Swat in 2004, so how can you say that there were no Taliban before Lal Masjid ?
The Lal Masjid Operation was completely justified. No one can be allowed to form a parallel government, no one can be allowed to challenge the state and nobody can be allowed to spew hate. Lal Masjid clerics were involved in abduction, land grabbing, extortion and armed rebellion against the state. They weren't running a mosque or a madrassah, they were running a house of conspiracy, and the Holy Prophet(P.B.U.H) already showed by example what should be done with such a place of fitna.

i wrote "with full zeal" you didn't get it. there were no sharia courts or taliban police stations or there patrols on the roads before july 2007 if were than produce some news reports about courts, patrols and there punishments in swat and bajaur

lal mosque is a debatable issue but only basing on some clerics call for sharia and there megalomania launching full throttle army action is not fair. just go to muridkey and lahore and just examine the headquarters of Let they run state within a state why they are not routed? e

during operation whole drama was escalated on hostage situation and foreign militants. were there any hostage was freed or any foreign militant was unearthed??? was it not a big lie on part of army and govt??

again don't argue this war on religious basis rather argue on humanity basis because religion leads us to something different

 

[niazifighter]

One or two isolated incidents, your terrorist idols practically own that department.



1) The figure is 354, don't over inflate it.
2) Only about 40 of these have been found to be in custody of the security forces, the rest could have been kidnapped for ransom or killed on account of family disputes, wouldn't be the first time.



Allowing transit and selling the country are two distinctly different things, get an IQ before you pretend to be smarter than you are......

isolated incidents.......................yeah our army men are the most unluckiest pals on earth that there mischief was caught on camera so sad..............

go read human rights commission and amnesty international reports on swat operation to have a glimpse of isolated incidents

missing persons....................very bad they all disappeared on they own why the onus is on army supreme court is distorting facts isn't it

go study the missing person case in supreme court army didn't acknowledged there captivity and you missed balochistan missing persons beside that the missing persons numbers are increasings day to day

allowing transit.................................

providing human intelligence for drone attacks, airbases for drones, safehouses for private contractors, bases for b 52 and a 10 aircrafts in jacobabad and conducting joint operations in pakistan and all of this is under transit treaty isn't it???

what about your IQ??

 

[Rafi]

Death to all takfiri and death to their lunatic supporters.

 

[Fracker]

countless????
ok i count them for you
blast at shereton hotel karachi, american consulate,two blast on musharaf, blast on shaukat aziz, balst on sunni tehrik karachi,balst on shia cleric karachi, balst on punjab reg daragai in revenge of bajaur drone attacks, blast on sherpao

can you add the remaining countless attacks???????????

compare these 10 or say 15 blasts in 6 years with 13 major blasts in 2007 in only six months after lal masjid operation here is a link
Pakistan: timeline of suicide bomb attacks 2007-2011 - Telegraph

Sorry for distributes, Masoud Group launched TTP in 2004 whose agenda was against US and their allies, but that latter turned against Pakistanis only, Maulvi Faqir launched his FM Channel in 2004, which were continue trying to drag common muslims towards (So called) islamic cause. Pre-Lal masjid there was less attacks since TTP never had much support from the people of Pakistan, but after Lal masid many FATA, Swat tribes joined TTP (so called) islamic cause. This explains nothing but TTP had less support prior to Lal masjid, and had high after that. But their false against Pakistan Army was from the start and even while being in Afghanistan, they are only attacking pakistan (not US or India) which clearly shows their attention. No doubt, in 2008 Mullah Umer (Taliban's Head) has disowned TTP and said he don't know who they are.

No doubt PA, Pakistani Politicians are doing false things but TTP are the most evil ones. They are the same people who called people from KPK to save Kabul and left Kabul and Pakistanis didn't knew how US came to them from Behind.

 

[salmakh84]

My post deleted and I'm infracted. Three cheers for free speech? What inappropriate language did I use? Army bashing is not allowed, even it its true?

354 missing persons only, is that a JOKE???

Few misdeamers? Torture is RAMPANT in our police and army!! Only few videos got leaked! And the army has taken "care" of the leakers..

I have heard FIRST hand account of a MISSING person who was later found to be innocent and dropped at a sunsan road in karachi. His story and "halat" were TOO gruesome.. i started crying after hearing what our army does.. he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time and got "picked up".. there are countless such people.

Allow transit... umm.. killing your own people, providing intellegence, army, personal... allowing cia agents to roam freely, if that is not selling the country, dont ever accuse zardari of selling the country than :p

and it was ok to help bomb afghanistan too? morals...

---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------

isolated incidents.......................yeah our army men are the most unluckiest pals on earth that there mischief was caught on camera so sad..............

go read human rights commission and amnesty international reports on swat operation to have a glimpse of isolated incidents

missing persons....................very bad they all disappeared on they own why the onus is on army supreme court is distorting facts isn't it

go study the missing person case in supreme court army didn't acknowledged there captivity and you missed balochistan missing persons beside that the missing persons numbers are increasings day to day

allowing transit.................................

providing human intelligence for drone attacks, airbases for drones, safehouses for private contractors, bases for b 52 and a 10 aircrafts in jacobabad and conducting joint operations in pakistan and all of this is under transit treaty isn't it???

what about your IQ??

no no bro... govt is wrong, not army.. army is farishta.. geo army.. mushy was not in army... kiyani is not in army.. no corrupt general is in army... hamara IQ low hay.. we cannot understand these things.. only "blind" army lovers are true patriots..

 

[Rafi]

My post deleted and I'm infracted. Three cheers for free speech? What inappropriate language did I use? Army bashing is not allowed, even it its true?

354 missing persons only, is that a JOKE???

Few misdeamers? Torture is RAMPANT in our police and army!! Only few videos got leaked! And the army has taken "care" of the leakers..

I have heard FIRST hand account of a MISSING person who was later found to be innocent and dropped at a sunsan road in karachi. His story and "halat" were TOO gruesome.. i started crying after hearing what our army does.. he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time and got "picked up".. there are countless such people.

Allow transit... umm.. killing your own people, providing intellegence, army, personal... allowing cia agents to roam freely, if that is not selling the country, dont ever accuse zardari of selling the country than :p

and it was ok to help bomb afghanistan too? morals...

---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------



no no bro... govt is wrong, not army.. army is farishta.. geo army.. mushy was not in army... kiyani is not in army.. no corrupt general is in army... hamara IQ low hay.. we cannot understand these things.. only "blind" army lovers are true patriots..

If you think tab controlled A-Stan is some sort of Utopia, you are more deluded than I thought.

 

[salmakh84]

If you think tab controlled A-Stan is some sort of Utopia, you are more deluded than I thought.

not a utopia...
but present day pakistan and its army are no farishta's either.. maybe worse than tabs.. doesnt mean tabs are good. just better than american ghulams

 

[Icarus]

i wrote "with full zeal" you didn't get it. there were no sharia courts or taliban police stations or there patrols on the roads before july 2007 if were than produce some news reports about courts, patrols and there punishments in swat and bajaur

And I wrote, there were. However, the MMA government kept it all hush-hush and didn't let it make too big a story.

lal mosque is a debatable issue but only basing on some clerics call for sharia and there megalomania launching full throttle army action is not fair. just go to muridkey and lahore and just examine the headquarters of Let they run state within a state why they are not routed?

Sharia ?
He passed a fatwa saying that suicide attacks on foreigners, govt officials and security forces are justified.
They took over the Children's library Islamabad by force and turned it into a madrassah.
They set fire to the Ministry of Environment building.
They roamed the area clad in balaclavas and totting klashnikovs as if they were toys.
They kidnapped Policemen and confiscated their wireless sets and weapons.
And these are only some of the activities they were involved in among others.

during operation whole drama was escalated on hostage situation and foreign militants. were there any hostage was freed or any foreign militant was unearthed??? was it not a big lie on part of army and govt??

Don't know anything about foreign militants but I saw interviews of a number of students who came out and all of them had one story to tell, they were being pressurized into staying inside the complex.

again don't argue this war on religious basis rather argue on humanity basis because religion leads us to something different.

Ok, your call.............

---------- Post added at 06:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------

not a utopia...
but present day pakistan and its army are no farishta's either.. maybe worse than tabs.. doesnt mean tabs are good. just better than american ghulams

How many soldiers walk into bazars full of Women and Children and blow them to bits ? None
How many Talibs do the same ? Plenty

It seems the American Ghulams are better, not looking too good for the terrorists as far as winning hearts is concerned........

 

[Icarus]

isolated incidents.......................yeah our army men are the most unluckiest pals on earth that there mischief was caught on camera so sad..............

Damn right, still there's a difference between cutting someone's head off and giving them a beat down.
Then when you cut loads of people's heads off, then it's pushing it.

go read human rights commission and amnesty international reports on swat operation to have a glimpse of isolated incidents

This "Go and......" line doesn't work on PDF, kindly post your reference.

missing persons....................very bad they all disappeared on they own why the onus is on army supreme court is distorting facts isn't it

Unless the agencies have been charged, you don't have a case. Last I checked on the progress of the case, they weren't charged.

go study the missing person case in supreme court army didn't acknowledged there captivity and you missed balochistan missing persons beside that the missing persons numbers are increasings day to day

Source...

providing human intelligence for drone attacks, airbases for drones, safehouses for private contractors, bases for b 52 and a 10 aircrafts in jacobabad and conducting joint operations in pakistan and all of this is under transit treaty isn't it???

Human Intel: None Provided.
Airbases: None Provided, Shamsi was a UAE Airbase and they chose to allow presence of Drones for Ops in Kandahar.
No bombers were ever stationed in Pakistan.
Joint Ops were carried out under warrants issued by Interpol, being a member, Pakistan has to honour those warrants. And the West can have the terrorists........good riddance in my opinion.

what about your IQ??

Still going......

 

[Icarus]

My post deleted and I'm infracted. Three cheers for free speech? What inappropriate language did I use? Army bashing is not allowed, even it its true?

You need evidence to back it up, a rant wont cut it.

354 missing persons only, is that a JOKE???

No, that's the last SC count of Missing Balochs.

Few misdeamers? Torture is RAMPANT in our police and army!! Only few videos got leaked! And the army has taken "care" of the leakers.

.

Torture is RAMPANT everywhere, it's a part of the intelligence gathering process, you think I'll say pretty please before talking to a Talib and he will spill the beans on his entire operations ?
There is a difference between hurting a terrorist to save countless others and killing people in the most inhumane ways possible to extract enjoyment from their suffering.

I have heard FIRST hand account of a MISSING person who was later found to be innocent and dropped at a sunsan road in karachi. His story and "halat" were TOO gruesome.. i started crying after hearing what our army does.. he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time and got "picked up".. there are countless such people.

Army doesn't pick up people, that's what the intel agencies are for and where was this person to be precise, because no one is beaten up unless the agencies are sure that he has some actionable intelligence that he isn't sharing. Usually a few questions and a little posturing separates the guilty from the innocent.

Allow transit... umm.. killing your own people, providing intellegence, army, personal... allowing cia agents to roam freely, if that is not selling the country, dont ever accuse zardari of selling the country than :p

Elaborate "killing your own people" ?
Intel sharing is is a common practice across the world, if that's selling your country then I believe other than Vatican City, every country is pretty much sold.
When were Army Personnel ever given to the American ?
Like I said, Intel nets are everywhere. We have guys in America too and IT'S NEVER WITH PERMISSION. They are locals who work for someone else.

and it was ok to help bomb afghanistan too? morals...

1) We didn't bomb Afghanistan.
2) Afghans are happier than when under Talib occupation, polls and our resident Afghan members approve.

---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------

[/COLOR]

no no bro... govt is wrong, not army.. army is farishta.. geo army.. mushy was not in army... kiyani is not in army.. no corrupt general is in army... hamara IQ low hay.. we cannot understand these things.. only "blind" army lovers are true patriots..

Your ranting again, don't say I didn't warn you. You don't understand the situation on ground because you yourself are comfortable abroad, it's us who have to bear with the terrorists on a daily basis.

 

[salmakh84]

Damn right, still there's a difference between cutting someone's head off and giving them a beat down.
Then when you cut loads of people's heads off, then it's pushing it.

Google or Search youtube for Pakistan Army Bombs Makeen Bazaar.. they flattened it killing MANY innocents.. includes some eyewitness accounts. Its just one of many.. also see Hamid Mirs program where a Govt Employee tells of how a helicopter FIRED on innocent people fleeing the war... families.. 40+ killed... ethics..

Unless the agencies have been charged, you don't have a case. Last I checked on the progress of the case, they weren't charged.



Source...

Yeah, ISI will be charged, just like saleem shehzads murder... I can give you a SPECIFIC case... Police reportedly CAPTURED 3 "terrorists", IT EVEN came in the news... their parents went to the station, were told that agencies picked them up from police so they dont have it... later DSP changed story saying they FLED!!!
after the parents filed a case, giving Police press conference of capture as proof, the "terrorists" were produced.. (after a month, police saying they were RE CAPTURED).. there were torture marks on them.. NO ISI/Agency has been charged, yet... lawyer was threatened too!

Human Intel: None Provided.
Airbases: None Provided, Shamsi was a UAE Airbase and they chose to allow presence of Drones for Ops in Kandahar.
No bombers were ever stationed in Pakistan.

Are you a comedian??? Almost every report said In collaboration with Pakistan... pak provides logistics and intel.. Pak Army and US Army DONT deny it, why are u denying it?

Shamsi airbase.. LOLS... again, is that a joke? common, rehman malik is a better joker

Joint Ops were carried out under warrants issued by Interpol, being a member, Pakistan has to honour those warrants. And the West can have the terrorists........good riddance in my opinion.

Haha. What warrants?


To kill people without a trial by drones? Even some US lawmakers admit it is illegal. US joint operations are ok? Even if there is a warrant, cant your ethical pak army act alone?

Latest count on missing people: Thousands!! (Pakistan: Thousands Of Persons Remain Missing | Scoop News) thats 2010

I quote:
However, different estimates by nationalist groups, fundamentalist religious organizations and different human rights organizations, claim that as many as 8000 cases of missing persons have been reported since the start of the war on terror from different parts of the country. In Balochistan province alone, over 4000 persons are reportedly missing and disappearances continue to be perpetrated, notably by paramilitary forces.

Your ranting again, don't say I didn't warn you. You don't understand the situation on ground because you yourself are comfortable abroad, it's us who have to bear with the terrorists on a daily basis.

I am not permanently abroad. I keep coming and going to Pakistan.. its only because of family, otherwise I am not a fan of uncle sam and "random" security checks at airports..

Army doesn't pick up people, that's what the intel agencies are for and where was this person to be precise, because no one is beaten up unless the agencies are sure that he has some actionable intelligence that he isn't sharing. Usually a few questions and a little posturing separates the guilty from the innocent.

yeah, tell that to people who have been picked up and randomly tortured my agencies (including MI = operated by ARMY).

For e.g. A "Mastermind of Parade Lane Mosque attack (which was wrong and condemnable)" was picked up and is still missing. He was 18 years OLD!!! how can a 18/19 year old student mastermind such an attack??