Debate between Pak-Army Soldier & Taliban & Pakistan's WoT

[niazifighter]

"You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State." - Muhammad Ali Jinnah

"In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims — Hindus, Christians, and Parsis — but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan." - Muhammad Ali Jinnah

If the Talibans don't like this, they can crawl back to whatever hole they came out from.

there you go quaid vision of liberalism and secularism based on egalitarian tenets would serve our purpose so we have to choose one thing quaid's vision or islam ( i mean islam as ruler of state)

quaid vision will make us to help international community with problem of terrorism on the other hand if we allow islam to mingle in state affairs then its supremacy will make us to help talibans and alqaeda to establish a khilafat

 

[niazifighter]

Please do not spread falsehood of your taliban. It is a weak hadith to begin with. Learn Islam first before commenting.

oh weak hadith go listen to Dr israr ahmad, read albani and ibn kaseer you will have a glimpse of weak hadith

and the hadith quoted above can i question its authenticity??????

its just a wrong way to argue to quote hadiths while proving someone evilness or truthfulness. why you people just drag religion while arguing such matters. go read renowned hanfi books like "badaya and sanaya" and "hadaya" and "mabsoot" and fatwa of shah abdul aziz and fatwa of abdullah azzam signed by 72 eminent scholars according to that jihad is a foremost obligation on us which entitle us to fight us and nato

our war against talibans is based on quaid vision not islam our allies are america and other international community not an islamic emirate understand??

 

[Slides]

oh weak hadith go listen to Dr israr ahmad, read albani and ibn kaseer you will have a glimpse of weak hadith

and the hadith quoted above can i question its authenticity??????

its just a wrong way to argue to quote hadiths while proving someone evilness or truthfulness. why you people just drag religion while arguing such matters. go read renowned hanfi books like "badaya and sanaya" and "hadaya" and "mabsoot" and fatwa of shah abdul aziz and fatwa of abdullah azzam signed by 72 eminent scholars according to that jihad is a foremost obligation on us which entitle us to fight us and nato

our war against talibans is based on quaid vision not islam our allies are america and other international community not an islamic emirate understand??

Again, stop with the verbal diarrhea. It is a weak hadith. If you have proof to the contrary, bring it. Taliban, being the deviants they are, adopted the black flags on the basis of the weak hadith. The originally started with white flags. You have been very easily tricked by their propaganda.

Our war against taliban is based upon defending a muslim majority nation from the un-islamic values of killing innocent people as used by taliban. If I have to explain this to you, it means that you are either in denial about the taliban, or are a member of the taliban yourself.

 

[A.Muqeet khan]

what power??? a state ??? what agenda??? foreign one?????

come on be realistic its religious zeal which work as an impetus in this war go see the whole globe matter of fact is pakistan has experienced it by self so its really indigestible religiously they are right while politically and internationally we are right our idea is secularism while their is hardcore islam

authority dude authority why do u think that swat deal was called of even when the sharia bill was implemented ???????????? if u dont know plz go and check the news of that time and the interview of the muslim khan at that time

---------- Post added at 02:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:53 PM ----------

Again, stop with the verbal diarrhea. It is a weak hadith. If you have proof to the contrary, bring it. Taliban, being the deviants they are, adopted the black flags on the basis of the weak hadith. The originally started with white flags. You have been very easily tricked by their propaganda.

Our war against taliban is based upon defending a muslim majority nation from the un-islamic values of killing innocent people as used by taliban. If I have to explain this to you, it means that you are either in denial about the taliban, or are a member of the taliban yourself.

i think he is the latter

 

[niazifighter]

Again, stop with the verbal diarrhea. It is a weak hadith. If you have proof to the contrary, bring it. Taliban, being the deviants they are, adopted the black flags on the basis of the weak hadith. The originally started with white flags. You have been very easily tricked by their propaganda.

Our war against taliban is based upon defending a muslim majority nation from the un-islamic values of killing innocent people as used by taliban. If I have to explain this to you, it means that you are either in denial about the taliban, or are a member of the taliban yourself.

my arguments absolutely of no use so here are proofs

According to al-Zawa'id (Commentry on Sunan ibn Majah by Mohammad tofayl al-Ansari) its isnad (narration chains) is SAHIH and according to Al-Hakim who narrates it in Mustadrak al-Hakim it is Sahih on the condition of Shaykhain (Bukhari and Muslim).

Also like to add that this is not the only Hadith that mentions them, I've read I think nearly a hundred such narrations with different isnad so there can be no doubt about the whole thing.

beside this hadith appear in ibn maja, tirmidi and musnad ahmed and you know maja and tirmidi are included in the most authentic books of hadith

here is a link to arbi post which includes all the books and commentaries containing black banner hadith if you can't understand language then just see the colossal no of books referring to this hadith
http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3819

now can i again question the khwariijs hadith? authenticity please?

why don't you fight for muslim majorities in afghanistan, iraq, somalia, chechnaya, yemen, india,phillipines and etc and even waziristan and defend them against the tyrant kuffars? rather than muslims "khwarjis"? bringing down drones and fighting americans in afghanistan is your first and foremost duty according to islam isn't it??

pakistan is the second largest military aid recipient after israel from america "the satan" as prescribed by your brother nation iran any answer??

why pakistan army provides logistic support to america which is certainly being used for killing muslims?? and why pakistan army is cooperating with american army so eagerly and wholeheartedly that it even didn't bothered to hand over their own citizens to cia??

 

[pak-marine]

Talibani rat mullah kay liaey daka chori sub halal hai ... yeh shariat in gadhoon ko implement karni hai

Btw why cant this guy can be traced ?

 

[niazifighter]

authority dude authority why do u think that swat deal was called of even when the sharia bill was implemented ???????????? if u dont know plz go and check the news of that time and the interview of the muslim khan at that time

i agree authority is a plausible reason but don't you thing there is some religious backings???

remember when for the first time taliban phenomenon ensued it was only after lal masjid?

the spat and spring of suicide bombings only surfaced after lal masjid??

talibs and bombers are religiously motivated beside in quest of authority

 

[Slides]

remember when for the first time taliban phenomenon ensued it was only after lal masjid?

the spat and spring of suicide bombings only surfaced after lal masjid??

This is a huge lie on your part. There were countless attacks pre lal masjid raid.

 

[Slides]

my arguments absolutely of no use so here are proofs

According to al-Zawa'id (Commentry on Sunan ibn Majah by Mohammad tofayl al-Ansari) its isnad (narration chains) is SAHIH and according to Al-Hakim who narrates it in Mustadrak al-Hakim it is Sahih on the condition of Shaykhain (Bukhari and Muslim).

Also like to add that this is not the only Hadith that mentions them, I've read I think nearly a hundred such narrations with different isnad so there can be no doubt about the whole thing.

beside this hadith appear in ibn maja, tirmidi and musnad ahmed and you know maja and tirmidi are included in the most authentic books of hadith. It does not have the narration chain needed for authenticity.

here is a link to arbi post which includes all the books and commentaries containing black banner hadith if you can't understand language then just see the colossal no of books referring to this hadith
http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3819

Why don't you just give the reference of where the hadith is from? Is it sahih bukhari or sahih muslim and which book can it be found in? Al-Zawa'id is not part of the authentic sunni hadith.

 

[Bratva]

Talibani rat mullah kay liaey daka chori sub halal hai ... yeh shariat in gadhoon ko implement karni hai

Btw why cant this guy can be traced ?

Conversation most probably happened on some walkie talkie type thing

 

[niazifighter]

Why don't you just give the reference of where the hadith is from? Is it sahih bukhari or sahih muslim and which book can it be found in? Al-Zawa'id is not part of the authentic sunni hadith.

what are u a moron???

it was mentioned that al zawa'id is a commentry on ibn majah and u don,t know ibn maja????? please clarify, this hadith is present in trimidhi, ibn e majah and musnad ahmed which are part of the 6 most authentic works on hadith according to sunni belief isn,t it???? and if a hadith is not present in bukhari and muslim then it is to taken as weak and false clarify??? do you only believe in bukhari and muslim only???

you didn't answer my question regarding kharjis hadith and fighting for oppressed muslims any answer?

well i can bet talibans have more authentic religious proofs and arguments than you army supporters

i don't support war against talibans on basis of religion rather on basis of quaid's vision of egalitarian ethos

 

[niazifighter]

This is a huge lie on your part. There were countless attacks pre lal masjid raid.

countless????
ok i count them for you
blast at shereton hotel karachi, american consulate,two blast on musharaf, blast on shaukat aziz, balst on sunni tehrik karachi,balst on shia cleric karachi, balst on punjab reg daragai in revenge of bajaur drone attacks, blast on sherpao

can you add the remaining countless attacks???????????

compare these 10 or say 15 blasts in 6 years with 13 major blasts in 2007 in only six months after lal masjid operation here is a link
Pakistan: timeline of suicide bomb attacks 2007-2011 - Telegraph

 

[A.Muqeet khan]

the attacks were happening and this to is a fact

 

[StandForInsaf]

(katal karta, katal karta , katal karta ....................... this mullaha is stupid as hell )

TTP = Religious delusional rdy to kill innocent ppl , brain washed by mullahz , mullahz equally responsible in murders and terror.

Pakistan Army = Pakistan professional army protects the interest of the country , and real patriotic .

In my opinion gvt should try to give education to TTPs (those who are not involved in murders till now those who are involved in murders should be brought to justice) this is only solution ,arrest them and send to educational jails , only if situation become very sever and operation is necessary then they should do it , without hesitation and wipe them out completely.

Army jawan talk with "APP" , high ethics , but i think TTP dogs dont deserve it ,

TTP dog says "TUM" , religious zombie is full of hate,

Geo Pakistan , Geo Pakistan Army

 

[StandForInsaf]

Please dont quote Dr Tahir ul Padri... he is sitting in Goras Lap. Cuts christmas cake, sings their praises, dances, people prostrate in front of him etc

The Kharijis, according to the hadith, will they FIGHT america and its allies, or take american aid? Mind you Pak Army (and our beloved country) takes billions of $$$$ and arms etc from United States of Muslimerica.

The kharijis, will kill help kill hundreds of innocents by giving america bases, nato supply, drones etc? or fight the people giving it?

Please define kharjis according to hadis, also define murtads when you do that.. and see which one fits who.

If suicide bombing is haram, please remind us what did Brave Pakistani soldiers do beneath indian tanks with bombs, or palestinians in israel?

I agree, people doing suicide blasts in PUBLIC places killing innocents is totally wrong... but killing ARMED AMERICANS and their ALLIES, that is a totally different ball game..

And if someone thinks WE are NOT american allies.... well, are you up??

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@StandForInsaf: Pakistan Army = Professional Army? I think you missed the torture videos. Or forgot 2000+ missing people. ?
real patriots: yeah, One Bush Phone Call, Patriots pi$$ in their pants and SELL the country.. Army for Sale.. No morals, no ethics.. just $$$

They are ally or not gvt has to decide not army , army implements strategy .... i disagree ur point (talking in current scenario keeping dictators like zia out and past things out)

Cut the crap and stop favoring suicidal religious zombie terrorists.

Geo Pakistan , Geo Pakistan Army